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Neil G

Go fuck yourselves FSG

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1 hour ago, Trumo said:

 

So unless you see what you want to see, it all means shit. Got it.

Accounts will tell you exactly what the people who wrote them want them to say. They will say nothing else. Which is why when people buy companies they just make do with company accounts. Because everybody does the same. This is not an FSG thing or a football/sport thing. This is literally how every single company in the world works. Accounts aren't worth shit. 

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25 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Accounts will tell you exactly what the people who wrote them want them to say. They will say nothing else. Which is why when people buy companies they just make do with company accounts. Because everybody does the same. This is not an FSG thing or a football/sport thing. This is literally how every single company in the world works. Accounts aren't worth shit. 

Audited accounts are worth shit.

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14 minutes ago, Rotpeter said:

Audited accounts are worth shit.

They're not though. It's not about if people are lying. It's about how they want their accounts to look. If that was the case, when you buy a company, why would you go through books and accounts? Because audited accounts aren't worth shit because auditors are afraid to question their clients. Amazing stuff is overlooked all the time. 

 

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/14/accountancy-watchdog-attacks-poor-work-from-biggest-firms?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16271598004507&amp_ct=1627159897449&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbusiness%2F2020%2Fjul%2F14%2Faccountancy-watchdog-attacks-poor-work-from-biggest-firms

 

 

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1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

They're not though. It's not about if people are lying. It's about how they want their accounts to look. If that was the case, when you buy a company, why would you go through books and accounts? Because audited accounts aren't worth shit because auditors are afraid to question their clients. Amazing stuff is overlooked all the time. 

 

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/14/accountancy-watchdog-attacks-poor-work-from-biggest-firms?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16271598004507&amp_ct=1627159897449&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbusiness%2F2020%2Fjul%2F14%2Faccountancy-watchdog-attacks-poor-work-from-biggest-firms

 

 

The audit doesn't just look at the summary reports though.  They trace transactions from source to finish across sub-ledgers, bank accounts and companies.  You're right in as much as its not perfect and you can guide the accounts to paint a picture (recognizing revenue early vs late and that kind of thing) but the audits I've been involved with (USA) would catch departures from GAAP and all the kinds of stuff talked about on here.  Especially since Sarbannes-Oxley.

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2 hours ago, Rotpeter said:

The audit doesn't just look at the summary reports though.  They trace transactions from source to finish across sub-ledgers, bank accounts and companies.  You're right in as much as its not perfect and you can guide the accounts to paint a picture (recognizing revenue early vs late and that kind of thing) but the audits I've been involved with (USA) would catch departures from GAAP and all the kinds of stuff talked about on here.  Especially since Sarbannes-Oxley.

I think the problem with audits are that they are only a fraction of the work, so if PWC, KPMG etc are auditing these big companies and also doing consulting and project work for the same client as well its going to be a big call for them to qualify an audit or say something bad. And has history has shown, they wont.

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1 hour ago, redinblack said:

I think the problem with audits are that they are only a fraction of the work, so if PWC, KPMG etc are auditing these big companies and also doing consulting and project work for the same client as well its going to be a big call for them to qualify an audit or say something bad. And has history has shown, they wont.

That’s not allowed anymore though. 

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5 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

They're not though. It's not about if people are lying. It's about how they want their accounts to look. If that was the case, when you buy a company, why would you go through books and accounts? Because audited accounts aren't worth shit because auditors are afraid to question their clients. Amazing stuff is overlooked all the time. 

 

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/14/accountancy-watchdog-attacks-poor-work-from-biggest-firms?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16271598004507&amp_ct=1627159897449&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbusiness%2F2020%2Fjul%2F14%2Faccountancy-watchdog-attacks-poor-work-from-biggest-firms

 

 

The club’s auditors (EY) passed with first class honours there, no?

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9 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

How do you even discuss this stuff? "Yeah, I just don't believe the wage bill and financial accounts". Oh, ok then. 

Oh, yessir.

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6 hours ago, aRdja said:

The club’s auditors (EY) passed with first class honours there, no?

No. The article was literally about how the big 4 are shit. So if you're saying they weren't champions shitness, you're right. But they still fell short in 3 of 10 audits. Maybe in a world where Patrick Bamford is a top striker that is first class. 

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15 hours ago, Jarvinja Ilnow said:

Not if they go in on a one-on-one with that tiny-armed shithouse Pickford.

I can't see him getting away with that two seasons on the trot. I wouldn't be surprised to see Virg give him the Ramos/Karius people's elbow treatment.

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14 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

No. The article was literally about how the big 4 are shit. So if you're saying they weren't champions shitness, you're right. But they still fell short in 3 of 10 audits. Maybe in a world where Patrick Bamford is a top striker that is first class. 

You’re better than that Barry.

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Just now, lifetime fan said:


Bamford isn’t though. 

Happy to discuss on the summer transfers thread. Not sure what the relevance is here. It’s just an unnecessary dig IMO. I’ve always been respectful. For what it’s worth Bamford scored twice the amount of goals Bobby did in the league last season. This forum just have a really weird tendency to hate everything English. Seems a bit contrived.

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32 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Happy to discuss on the summer transfers thread. Not sure what the relevance is here. It’s just an unnecessary dig IMO. I’ve always been respectful. For what it’s worth Bamford scored twice the amount of goals Bobby did in the league last season. This forum just have a really weird tendency to hate everything English. Seems a bit contrived.


It was a lighthearted joke not a dig, fucking hell. 
 

My ol fella is a massive Leeds fan, discuss Bamford with him. He’ll tell you exactly how bang fucking average Bamford is. 
 

Bobby has mostly been poor for the last two seasons - what has that got to do with anything? 

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2 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:


It was a lighthearted joke not a dig, fucking hell. 
 

My ol fella is a massive Leeds fan, discuss Bamford with him. He’ll tell you exactly how bang fucking average Bamford is. 
 

Bobby has mostly been poor for the last two seasons - what has that got to do with anything? 

I wasn’t talking about your quip. I was referring to Barry’s comment. 
 

If we have Bamford in the team he’d be competing for Bobby’s starting spot. Based on last season, he’d provide more goals yet the same number of assists. I’m happy to have discussions about Bamford, as I’m a fan of his. That wasn’t the issue at all. 
 

Barry claimed “accounts are worthless”, and provided an article as support stating that based on FRC’s testing they got it spot on 71% of the time and needed sone improvements. I just couldn’t really reconcile the two. If anything it shows the system is working as their work gets reviews periodically by FRC. For me to be able to accept his statement, I need more than that. This is coming from someone who hates audit… did a 2 month internship at one of the big 4 and hated every minute. 

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14 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I wasn’t talking about your quip. I was referring to Barry’s comment. 
 

If we have Bamford in the team he’d be competing for Bobby’s starting spot. Based on last season, he’d provide more goals yet the same number of assists. I’m happy to have discussions about Bamford, as I’m a fan of his. That wasn’t the issue at all. 
 

Barry claimed “accounts are worthless”, and provided an article as support stating that based on FRC’s testing they got it spot on 71% of the time and needed sone improvements. I just couldn’t really reconcile the two. If anything it shows the system is working as their work gets reviews periodically by FRC. For me to be able to accept his statement, I need more than that. This is coming from someone who hates audit… did a 2 month internship at one of the big 4 and hated every minute. 


You quoted my post, didn’t mention Barry and said it was an unnecessary dig. 
 

I’m happy to talk Bamford if you like, I don’t actually think he’s bang average. 
 

I think he’s dogshit. 

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19 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:


You quoted my post, didn’t mention Barry and said it was an unnecessary dig. 
 

I’m happy to talk Bamford if you like, I don’t actually think he’s bang average. 
 

I think he’s dogshit. 

The post that you quoted literally said that it was a comment that I thought would’ve been beneath him. Wrt to your view on Bamford, that’s not not entirely unexpected as he’s not the most fashionable of footballers, even though some of our best players have come from lower clubs (Southampton, Hull, Newcastle amongst others).

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Poor Bamford. At least Crouch had two fit young women fighting over him, instead of two old women…

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35 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I wasn’t talking about your quip. I was referring to Barry’s comment. 
 

If we have Bamford in the team he’d be competing for Bobby’s starting spot. Based on last season, he’d provide more goals yet the same number of assists. I’m happy to have discussions about Bamford, as I’m a fan of his. That wasn’t the issue at all. 
 

Barry claimed “accounts are worthless”, and provided an article as support stating that based on FRC’s testing they got it spot on 71% of the time and needed sone improvements. I just couldn’t really reconcile the two. If anything it shows the system is working as their work gets reviews periodically by FRC. For me to be able to accept his statement, I need more than that. This is coming from someone who hates audit… did a 2 month internship at one of the big 4 and hated every minute. 

We've been through all this a million times on here. It's fucking tedious and everyone who wants to believe the club is lilly white, will continue to believe this. Last transfer window @FrenchEyeGlass posted here about how worthless it all is and his actual fucking job is to see through audited accounts on a M&A team in an investment bank. So we had an expert in the issue and the response was "nah, audited accounts are fucking ace". 

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If audited accounts are only right 70% of the time, that means they are only wrong 30% of the time.
 

So there is more than double the chance they are right than wrong.

 

So wouldn’t it make sense to go with the overwhelming majority than the minority? 
 

There is a 30% our accounts are wrong but a 70% our accounts are right? 
 

Or is that too simple and those with no inside knowledge of accounting, audit and football finances know better?

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31 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

We've been through all this a million times on here. It's fucking tedious and everyone who wants to believe the club is lilly white, will continue to believe this. Last transfer window @FrenchEyeGlass posted here about how worthless it all is and his actual fucking job is to see through audited accounts on a M&A team in an investment bank. So we had an expert in the issue and the response was "nah, audited accounts are fucking ace". 

With all due real to FrenchEyeGlass that’s anecdotal, and the article you posted actually refutes that. Take EY for example, the FRC found 70% of their work are of satisfactory quality and require no improvements, (worth noting that only one audit was identified to require significant improvements, which equates to 7%,  source posted below). However that was deemed not quite good enough, and they were instructed to implement urgent improvements. If anything this should provide you with some comfort that their work gets reviewed regularly and very high standards are expected and applied.

 

https://www.accountancydaily.co/aqi-2020-frc-finds-third-audits-need-improvement

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