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Neil G

Go fuck yourselves FSG

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4 hours ago, Scott_M said:


Assuming you were front and centre at the protest on Saturday?

You're a gobshite mate.

 

You and your ilk are the reason we've just had a season like this and the years of garbage in-between. You are systematic of the fall in high standards over the years that this Club used to thrive on. 

 

You're the sort of fan that just can't abide any criticism of the club whatsoever. You are the reason we don't win trophies year in year out.

 

From top to bottom, I think only Jurgen and some of the players can hold their heads up as true winners with the standard we need. We have owners who are fair-weather, winning is a bonus, but not essential, money and profit is paramount as witnessed by the amount of investment we've had into the squad over the years culminating in this disaster. 

 

I want owners who want to win competitions first, not second. Im happy if we are not successful but are seen to give a toss about winning. Watching Jurgen have to prioritise is embarrasing for a Club of our stature.

 

I'm not sure how this lot have managed to keep their heads above water after all the shit they've pulled, but here we are again with people like you who are happy to endorse them, a little over a week after pulling our name through the mud and throwing our manager under the bus. I seem to remember your stirling defence of Origi last year who has done the square root of fuck all too.

 

Sums you up.

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Surely everyone is in the same boat, lost revenue wise, if not worse, apart from probably United City and Chelsea. I think alot of clubs will have alot of players they won't be shifting because the arse has fallen out of their value and they won't be prepared to write them off in their accounts. Could see a fair few loans happening around Europe

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8 hours ago, Daisy said:

How do we have a bigger wage bill than Man United. They pay players 350k a week. 

 

If you add back the lost revenue, we would have only just about made a profit - in a year when we didn't buy anyone. Yet people believe FSG aren't sucking money out 

 

If we assume that the below links are relatively close to the real wage bills;

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/liverpool-fc/payroll/

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/manchester-united-fc/payroll/

 

This has United about 40 million ahead of us, so with Performance based payments it does sort of make sense how we would have paid out more than United.

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10 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

If we assume that the below links are relatively close to the real wage bills;

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/liverpool-fc/payroll/

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/manchester-united-fc/payroll/

 

This has United about 40 million ahead of us, so with Performance based payments it does sort of make sense how we would have paid out more than United.

The accounts are fully audited isn’t it, one would hope that EY would’ve covered salary expense recognition comprehensively in their testing, given that’s likely our largest expense type. 

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1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

You're a gobshite mate.

 

You and your ilk are the reason we've just had a season like this and the years of garbage in-between. You are systematic of the fall in high standards over the years that this Club used to thrive on. 

 

You're the sort of fan that just can't abide any criticism of the club whatsoever. You are the reason we don't win trophies year in year out.

 

From top to bottom, I think only Jurgen and some of the players can hold their heads up as true winners with the standard we need. We have owners who are fair-weather, winning is a bonus, but not essential, money and profit is paramount as witnessed by the amount of investment we've had into the squad over the years culminating in this disaster. 

 

I want owners who want to win competitions first, not second. Im happy if we are not successful but are seen to give a toss about winning. Watching Jurgen have to prioritise is embarrasing for a Club of our stature.

 

I'm not sure how this lot have managed to keep their heads above water after all the shit they've pulled, but here we are again with people like you who are happy to endorse them, a little over a week after pulling our name through the mud and throwing our manager under the bus. I seem to remember your stirling defence of Origi last year who has done the square root of fuck all too.

 

Sums you up.

 

In a season with no supporters, its supporters like me who are the problem. Absolute Classic. 

 

People who endorse them? I like to think I call it as I see it. Read the hyperlink in my auto signature for proof. I wasn't happy about last week, but I wasn't somebody who was super outraged either. The whole ESL was a sham, from every single club. Unfortunately we were one of them. I didn't like the concept of a closed shop, but I also have no love for UEFA picking finals in the most difficult places imaginable, giving shit allocations, charging extortionate prices, costing supporters fortunes and treating supporters like shit. I fully think something needs to change in football, the ESL just wasn't it.

 

I would like you to post this mythical defence of Origi from me please, because I can assure you it's never happened. I was happy for him to stay after Madrid but he's contributed nothing since. I was clear in the summer I'd contribute to his statue but it's time to go and I still feel that way. But hey, continue telling porky pies long enough and it becomes the truth, right?

 

The only interaction I've had with you today is over the protest. So I'll ask again, seeing the eyes of the world were on the ESL clubs at the weekend and you had an opportunity to go and protest about FSG and have your message seen and heard, did you do it? Yes or no.

 

If yes, regardless of my feelings on the matter, fair play to you for backing up words with actions.

 

If no (which I strongly suggest is the answer), on a forum where posters have been to David Moores' house and the Court case v Hick & Gillett, I think you and your fellow Anti-FSGers need to wind your neck in because you had a chance to stand up for what you believe and did fuck all.

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1 hour ago, Scott_M said:

 

In a season with no supporters, its supporters like me who are the problem. Absolute Classic. 

 

People who endorse them? I like to think I call it as I see it. Read the hyperlink in my auto signature for proof. I wasn't happy about last week, but I wasn't somebody who was super outraged either. The whole ESL was a sham, from every single club. Unfortunately we were one of them. I didn't like the concept of a closed shop, but I also have no love for UEFA picking finals in the most difficult places imaginable, giving shit allocations, charging extortionate prices, costing supporters fortunes and treating supporters like shit. I fully think something needs to change in football, the ESL just wasn't it.

 

I would like you to post this mythical defence of Origi from me please, because I can assure you it's never happened. I was happy for him to stay after Madrid but he's contributed nothing since. I was clear in the summer I'd contribute to his statue but it's time to go and I still feel that way. But hey, continue telling porky pies long enough and it becomes the truth, right?

 

The only interaction I've had with you today is over the protest. So I'll ask again, seeing the eyes of the world were on the ESL clubs at the weekend and you had an opportunity to go and protest about FSG and have your message seen and heard, did you do it? Yes or no.

 

If yes, regardless of my feelings on the matter, fair play to you for backing up words with actions.

 

If no (which I strongly suggest is the answer), on a forum where posters have been to David Moores' house and the Court case v Hick & Gillett, I think you and your fellow Anti-FSGers need to wind your neck in because you had a chance to stand up for what you believe and did fuck all.

I'm sure they will simply sell up as soon as I turn up at the ground.

 

Back in the real world, my post was on point, you really are just happy for this club to toddle along arnt you? It doesn't seem to bother you that we've gone from such a position of strength to an almost certain position of weakness. And thats on the owners because its only been through Jurgen we are where we are and now that he can't continue to carry the weight, things have crumbled.

 

Oh as for Origi, you were defending him to the hilt when many on here were suggesting he should be sold after Madrid and that he's not good enough, and as usual it was ultimately proved right (again).

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27 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

I'm sure they will simply sell up as soon as I turn up at the ground.

 

Back in the real world, my post was on point, you really are just happy for this club to toddle along arnt you? It doesn't seem to bother you that we've gone from such a position of strength to an almost certain position of weakness. And thats on the owners because its only been through Jurgen we are where we are and now that he can't continue to carry the weight, things have crumbled.

 

Oh as for Origi, you were defending him to the hilt when many on here were suggesting he should be sold after Madrid and that he's not good enough, and as usual it was ultimately proved right (again).


So, that’s a no, you didn’t go and protest. Something you and other posters feel so passionately about, had the opportunity in front of the world to go and get your point across and you, and other posters, didn’t do it?

 

All mouth, no balls.

 

As mentioned, some forumites here have been to David Moore’s house, been to G&H court stuff, been on the anti G&H marches, had sit in protests after games, emailed investment bankers when it looks like G&H could refinance the deal, left the ground early on ticket prices, sent online messages about the furlough & have done  everything in their power to save or improve the club. 
 

I can include myself in some of those. What have you done?
 

You and others had the opportunity and did nothing last Saturday.
 

Unfortunately, the club has been hit by COVID19. I’m not an expert in the accounts but it all seems straightforward enough to me. Income down, expenditure up. If you look at the graph I put earlier on how it’s impacted each club, you’ll see we’re not the only ones effected. 
 

If you know the figures better than others on the forum, kindly post what you know and enlighten us with your knowledge. Or if the club could have done something differently in the past 15 months, let us all know.


FYI, the club has already secured investment which looks to cover all this via Redball. Klopp has commented on it. I have no idea who this pans out, but plans look to be in place.

 

Finally, on Origi, he scored a lot of important goals for us that season. I was happy to give him a chance. So was Klopp. Maybe let Jurgen know your concerns next time and suggest we only sign players and offer contact extensions via a poll on the forum.

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9 minutes ago, Numero said:

Also, @Scott_M, as it's your fault that we've had a shit season, do you mind packing it in so we can have a good season next season. Just go back to whatever you were doing last season. 


Errr yeah, sorry about that. I take full responsibility - nothing to do about that bat & pangolin or Sky wanting TV money back or Adrian cocking up in the CL or building a new training ground or agreeing players bonuses...

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5 hours ago, No2 said:

The most accurate piece of information we have was Bobby's leaked wages. It was from 2017, he was making 70k per week plus 31k for an assist and 75k for a goal. It wouldn’t take a huge jump to expect he is on double that since his last contract. There will be win bonuses and trophy bonuses too. Its really not hard to imagine Mo was earning 500k most weeks for the last 2 years.

 

It's all speculation but the truth will be revealed next year when only Mo is picking up any type of bonus. I'd expect the wage bill to be at least 100m less.

The last set of accounts (as in a year ago rather than this set), we recorded wages over 300m and that didn't include the champions League win because the final occurred after the accounting period. So why were the wages so high then? We did resign loads of players though and paid a fucking fortune in agents fees, which is why I think they lump agent fees in. 

 

With the wages, I understood all 1st contracts were incentivised like firmino's you mention. The idea being if you make it, you then get rewarded on the basic wage on your next contract. So when he moved off that contract you mentioned to his "new one" (which was probably signed 2 years ago now), he got something like 180k per week, but the bonuses were slashed. I'm sure Werner talked of that concept very early in his time here. What they didn't want to do is the trap we'd maybe fallen into before where we signed people on extreme wages and they never worked and never settled (not an unreasonable position in a majority of cases). Personally, I think that's why the thiago signing was such a surprise, because they've clearly had to give him the sort of deal the other senior players are on.

 

We'll never know the exactly details (well unless wiki leaks gets on the case), but it would be surprising if most of our squad earned double their reported salary.  

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4 hours ago, aRdja said:

We’re talking about to carrying back trading losses here aren’t we? So this page is probably more relevant IMO.

 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/company-taxation-manual/ctm04510

 

Losses may only be carried back against profits of a preceding accounting period if the company was carrying on the trade (in which the loss was incurred) at some time in that accounting period.

 

The preceding period is usually the twelve months preceding the accounting period in which the loss is incurred. A temporary extension to this rule was introduced by FA09/S23. This extended the loss carry back to 3 years for accounting periods ending between 24 November 2008 and 23 November 2010. After carry back to the preceding year, a maximun of £50,000 of unused losses was available for carry back to the previous two years.


They’ve increased it again for Covid, but the net impact is only additional £800k max.

 

https://home.kpmg/uk/en/home/insights/2021/03/tmd-temporary-extension-to-carry-back-of-trading-losses.html

 

Sorry, I've no time to have a proper read and search... Well.to be honest no inclination today as I've only just knocked off work and half my day was on bullshit fucking corporation tax, vat and bills, so I don't need the busman's holiday! I'll take a read tomorrow. 

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12 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

The last set of accounts (as in a year ago rather than this set), we recorded wages over 300m and that didn't include the champions League win because the final occurred after the accounting period. So why were the wages so high then? We did resign loads of players though and paid a fucking fortune in agents fees, which is why I think they lump agent fees in. 

 

With the wages, I understood all 1st contracts were incentivised like firmino's you mention. The idea being if you make it, you then get rewarded on the basic wage on your next contract. So when he moved off that contract you mentioned to his "new one" (which was probably signed 2 years ago now), he got something like 180k per week, but the bonuses were slashed. I'm sure Werner talked of that concept very early in his time here. What they didn't want to do is the trap we'd maybe fallen into before where we signed people on extreme wages and they never worked and never settled (not an unreasonable position in a majority of cases). Personally, I think that's why the thiago signing was such a surprise, because they've clearly had to give him the sort of deal the other senior players are on.

 

We'll never know the exactly details (well unless wiki leaks gets on the case), but it would be surprising if most of our squad earned double their reported salary.  

Bonus wise I'd imagine the costs were higher in the previous accounts, we won nearly every game you could win and won the champions league. The CL final was June 1st so it could be the case that some bonuses and wages fell into the next financial year. 

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10 minutes ago, No2 said:

Bonus wise I'd imagine the costs were higher in the previous accounts, we won nearly every game you could win and won the champions league. The CL final was June 1st so it could be the case that some bonuses and wages fell into the next financial year. 

This is what I mean, the accounts today include last season up to the shutdown but because the CL final was late in 19 it missed the previous accounting period, so landed in this one. So the accounts we saw a year ago with still 300m+ wages were on the back of winning a lot of football games, but there was no trophy bonuses in there. 

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