Go fuck yourselves FSG

[VERBAL DIARRHEA 8,120]

Just now, Scooby Dudek said:

I should have used the sarcasm horn.

 

Sorry mate can’t tell these days, strange times.

[Barrington Womble 9,161]

25 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

thought the second part of my post made my sarcasm obvious, obviously not.

 

I should have used the sarcasm horn.

that sarcasm horn seems to be catching on. 

 

 

[Scooby Dudek 1,888]

6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

that sarcasm horn seems to be catching on. 

 

 

Not sure if being sarcastic or not...

[Barrington Womble 9,161]

Just now, Scooby Dudek said:

Not sure if being sarcastic or not...

[Bjornebye 26,433]

13 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Not sure if being sarcastic or not...

Sarcastic twat 

[Scooby Dudek 1,888]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

Sarcastic twat 

That gives me the sarcasm horn.

[VladimirIlyich 7,725]

The biggest mistake FSG have made was not reacting as quickly as possible to VVDs absence. We were top on Boxing Day and could have signed a half decent centre half weeks before we signed two bargain bucket replacements. It has snowballed from that. I very much doubt Klopp said 'Get me a Championship Centre Half and somebody from the Bundesliga relegation zone and I'm happy.' That hesitation has killed this season stone dead.

[Leyton388 1,326]

They're fucking idiots. Completely blown away the feel good factor of the past 3 years in a matter of months with their shithousery 

[Barrington Womble 9,161]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

The biggest mistake FSG have made was not reacting as quickly as possible to VVDs absence. We were top on Boxing Day and could have signed a half decent centre half weeks before we signed two bargain bucket replacements. It has snowballed from that. I very much doubt Klopp said 'Get me a Championship Centre Half and somebody from the Bundesliga relegation zone and I'm happy.' That hesitation has killed this season stone dead.

We banked the season on VVD staying fit. That was almost a reasonable gamble. We then had a chance to recover and stuck everything on matip. Only once matip finally went lame did we press the panic button. I understood the choice to have a left back. I disagreed the option should have been either or. The idea to roll the dice on matip was fucking criminal. 

[TheHowieLama 11,044]

3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 was fucking criminal. 

Barry are you ok?

 

So Barry, are you OK?

 

Are you ok Barry?

[VERBAL DIARRHEA 8,120]

20 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Barry are you ok?

 

So Barry, are you OK?

 

Are you ok Barry?

Haha no rep left H.

[Bobby Hundreds 8,659]

9 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

We banked the season on VVD staying fit. That was almost a reasonable gamble. We then had a chance to recover and stuck everything on matip. Only once matip finally went lame did we press the panic button. I understood the choice to have a left back. I disagreed the option should have been either or. The idea to roll the dice on matip was fucking criminal. 

Once VVD was injured pretty much every single fan said we can not rely on Matip and Gomez which means Fabinho will end up in defence and what if he gets injured. They still did the absolute minimum they possibly could. This is my issue with FSG I've no real big problems with them I dont want an Oligarch but occasionally they have to show more ambition than wheeling and dealing to cover gaps in the side. We are an absolute elite sporting level club.

[Barrington Womble 9,161]

4 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Once VVD was injured pretty much every single fan said we can not rely on Matip and Gomez which means Fabinho will end up in defence and what if he gets injured. They still did the absolute minimum they possibly could. This is my issue with FSG I've no real big problems with them I dont want an Oligarch but occasionally they have to show more ambition than wheeling and dealing to cover gaps in the side. We are an absolute elite sporting level club.

We're not, we're a cash cow. 

[SlugTrail 1,203]

18 hours ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Well, you know, some of us did say the squad was underfunded and needed a leg up for the next few years mainly because of these three scenarios:

 

Performance levels

Fatigue

Drop off in replacement quality

 

And we did mention, CONSTANTLY, that the squad carried players that were incredibly unreliable injury wise, and lots of us, DID SAY going into this season we can't do it with the CB options we have knowing their injury records.

 

Theres nothing oracle about any of it of course, its just logic and common sense, and the club has failed at avoiding it and its due in no part to lack of strengthening over the last several windows, where players like Origi, Shaqiri, OX, Matip should have been swiftly moved on.

 

And yet everyone said yeah, yeah, we are fine, the squad is good enough. Of course we won the league, but at what cost? Now a lot of the players have hit a wall and look dead on their feet. Our top 11-13, most have been injured, injury is biting away at the squad week in week out. The replacements we brought in cannot live up to the demand that is expected of them. None of Taki, Origi, Shaqiri, Ox, Jones for example, have taken their chance to shine and virtually offered nothing.

 

So now we are at a crossroads and our manager is under extreme pressure to find solutions. His team can only function one way, its built on emotion and intensity and requires having all the moving parts to make it a success. As you can see we are missing too many cogs and the cogs brought in can't cut it.

 

From a squad perspective, theres only two viable options now. We plow on with what we have in the summer, hope that some of these players step up. We can't flog a main man because no one has the buying power to do a Coutinho. Or we hope FSG dip into their pockets and make some major investment in the team whilst removing others who are next to useless, on. 

 

But I just can't see the second scenario happening unless FSG get desperate. Every occasion they dip into their own pockets eats away at the grand total of the asset when they sell and I don't think they are prepared to gamble with that.

 

They were probably hoping for another Jurgen miracle this season but it looks like its not gonna happen.

Cool story Bro.

[Scott_M 5,281]

I agree with parts of the centre back narrative, not others.

 

Firstly, if we'd have signed another centre half in the summer (which in hindsight we should have done) there is no guarantee VVD, Gomez, Matip and to a less extent Fabinho, wouldn't have all still suffered their injuries. VVD & Matip occurred during matches & Gomez on international duty. They aren't things we can influence (ie if they were continued muscle injuries, thats something we could address, the way they occurred meant they weren't).

 

So whatever the situation on a signing, we'd still have been significantly down in that area and would likely have struggled, although maybe not to the same extent.

 

I'd also have liked new recruits before the last day of the window. We could possibly have limped on with Matip being in and out of the side until the end of the season but it seems foolish we waited until the last days of the window to address the situation.

 

However, being honest, until the last couple of weeks or so, I think we've done well defensively. 

 

Our issue has been the same all season and that's beating the shite. Brighton, Fulham, Sheff Utd & Burnley - we've scored 4 goals in 5 games & taken 5 points from 15. Not good enough. We've taken maximum points against the chaff over recent seasons. Who can say they are confident ahead of Sunday?

 

Even though I fully appreciate that issues with the defence have caused issues in midfield and screwed the whole set up, but we're simply not doing enough at the top end of the pitch. We're not pinning teams in like we used to do and suffocating them into submission. But these were issues prior to Christmas when we were 5 points clear.

 

I think Klopp & Wijnaldum were right after the Everton game in that we're getting into positions but our pre-final or final ball is poor. Don't get me wrong, there have been some poor performances along the way, but we've still had opportunities in those games to take the lead (Salah at Newcastle, Origi v Burnley, Salah v Brighton, Firmino v Man Utd, Mane v City, half the team v WBA) and then who knows what happens?

 

I might have waffled a bit here but I don't think the "we should have signed a centre back" narrative goes anywhere to explain the full picture. Would it have helped? Yes, but IMO not anywhere as near as is bering portrayed. 

 

Given the quality we still have, should we still be doing better? 100% undoubtably. 

 

 

 

 

[Barrington Womble 9,161]

12 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

Even though I fully appreciate that issues with the defence have caused issues in midfield and screwed the whole set up, but we're simply not doing enough at the top end of the pitch. We're not pinning teams in like we used to do and suffocating them into submission. But these were issues prior to Christmas when we were 5 points clear

Pinning the teams in is the midfields job I think. The forwards can't press if they're not backed up, as you just get passed around. That press is actually an 7/8 man job. 

 

But in terms of that drop off, I think it's been 2 fold. There's been a drop off since after lockdown1. Lots of that was put down to us not being under pressure as we'd won the league. It would feel looking over a longer period it was perhaps impacted to some extent by the crowd or perhaps the amount of games. But we were hitting a points return through that period (last season and this) that would have us either challenging city or at least comfortably 2nd.

 

However, as much as it had fractionally dropped off, it doesn't even seem to be a tactic now - the only time it's looked like a tactic since Christmas were the games milner started in midfield. That is 100% to do with the make up of our midfield imo. Add that to midfield is actually the area of the pitch we probably rotate most and haven't done, I think we've created our own perfect storm, there's been injuries, but it's almost like we've doubled down on them and made it harder for ourselves. 

 

I've said I think the vvd gamble before the season was a reasonable one. He had a terrific injury record. And I think we'd have coped with all the other injuries if he'd stayed fit. But once he was injured, even before Gomez got injured, only a fucking clown would think we didn't have a crisis on our hands and it needed solving on Jan 1. Matip and Gomez have no track record of staying fit. Fabinho has a record at this club (I don't know what he was like before) of the types of injuries he's picked up this season. The risk/reward of not having a dedicated quality 4th centre back completely changed on 20th October. It would appear it took an injury to matip on 28th January to change that in the eyes of the club. Honestly, I don't think you need a spreadsheet or a degree in sports science to see that was a shocking call driven by budgetary constraints. It has completely destroyed this season and depending where we finish this season, could actually have knock on effects into future years. 

[Grinch 2,922]

The centre back issue being hindsight... Yea right 

[Scott_M 5,281]

2 minutes ago, Grinch said:

The centre back issue being hindsight... Yea right 

 

If you the rest of the paragraph, it explains it somewhat.

[Leyton388 1,326]

Top clubs after Gini as they see his value for the team and these morons are happy to let him leave on a free as we're to clever for that. 

 

Wish they would sell up and fuck off now. They've been exposed as what their priorities are and its not Jurgen or the team. 

 

The thing is as much shit as I give the owners I still want to believe they'll do the right thing and back Klopp in the summer but you just know its not going to happen. 

 

One of the biggest clubs in the world and we come and we spent less than Sheffield United and constantly cry poverty. Just fuck off. 

 

 

 

 

[Scott_M 5,281]

16 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Pinning the teams in is the midfields job I think. The forwards can't press if they're not backed up, as you just get passed around. That press is actually an 7/8 man job. 

 

But in terms of that drop off, I think it's been 2 fold. There's been a drop off since after lockdown1. Lots of that was put down to us not being under pressure as we'd won the league. It would feel looking over a longer period it was perhaps impacted to some extent by the crowd or perhaps the amount of games. But we were hitting a points return through that period (last season and this) that would have us either challenging city or at least comfortably 2nd.

 

However, as much as it had fractionally dropped off, it doesn't even seem to be a tactic now - the only time it's looked like a tactic since Christmas were the games milner started in midfield. That is 100% to do with the make up of our midfield imo. Add that to midfield is actually the area of the pitch we probably rotate most and haven't done, I think we've created our own perfect storm, there's been injuries, but it's almost like we've doubled down on them and made it harder for ourselves. 

 

I've said I think the vvd gamble before the season was a reasonable one. He had a terrific injury record. And I think we'd have coped with all the other injuries if he'd stayed fit. But once he was injured, even before Gomez got injured, only a fucking clown would think we didn't have a crisis on our hands and it needed solving on Jan 1. Matip and Gomez have no track record of staying fit. Fabinho has a record at this club (I don't know what he was like before) of the types of injuries he's picked up this season. The risk/reward of not having a dedicated quality 4th centre back completely changed on 20th October. It would appear it took an injury to matip on 28th January to change that in the eyes of the club. Honestly, I don't think you need a spreadsheet or a degree in sports science to see that was a shocking call driven by budgetary constraints. It has completely destroyed this season and depending where we finish this season, could actually have knock on effects into future years. 

 

I agree on the pressing. It is a team job and the make up of our midfield is significantly different to what it was in previous seasons. 

 

Hendo and Fabinho are both 6ft+, agile and get the ball forwards quicker. Admirably complimented by Gini, who's equally mobile (especially in his big match turbo charged mode) and strong as fuck. Milner leads by example.

 

Gini playing deeper doesn't get the ball forwards as quickly (also likely linked to the defence not getting the ball forwards as quick, hence why Hendo dropped back) and we miss his (and both their) energy higher up. 

 

Thiago does the dirty work (when he's not giving away cheap fouls) but isn't as mobile as the others. He's playing further forwards but with less room to pick a pass. Think about his debut v Chelsea, he played deeper and was breaking their lines almost with every pass. I know they were down to 10 but equally important was he was backed up by Fabinho and VVD, so he could take more risks with confidence it wouldn't hurt us.

 

I really like Curtis Jones but he's not consistently at the level of those players yet. Not a criticism, it's the case with younger players. He's doing very well, but he still has a lot to learn.

 

I agree the situation should have been addressed before the final days of the window. But I don't fully think it was the 100% solution other have. Neither do I think it'd would have been the solution in October / November - VVD and Gomez would still likely injured, Matip would still likely have been Matip and it's still likely Fabinho / Phillips / Williams / Hendo would have had to have spend time back there.

 

We've had the same issues since late December, as we've had almost all season. If we'd nose dived immediately after VVD or Gomez's injury, I think it'd have been easier to take. But the fact we got ourselves in a great position and then a massive drop off makes it more difficult to explain. 

 

I know we all won't agree on opinions, but there is clearly just some complete bollocks posted - players being past their peak, our squad is weak, we're in another rebuilding phase - blah blah blah.

 

IMO, we need to all ask ourselves a simples question - If VVD hadn't got crocked for the season, would we be languishing where we are? I'm sure we all think absolutely not. And then all the other injuries have compounded the issue. We went into the season with 3.5 centre backs and all of them have been injured and only Fabinho will be seen again. How many players do we expect to have in those positions? IMO, What we've seen is just a freak occurence. 

 

Could we have been better prepared? Well, yeah. But realistically, how much difference would it have made? We could have signed Upamencano in the summer (hopefully playing better than he has in the CL) but they likelihood is we'd still have gad to partner him with a less tested player.

[Barrington Womble 9,161]

23 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

I agree on the pressing. It is a team job and the make up of our midfield is significantly different to what it was in previous seasons. 

 

Hendo and Fabinho are both 6ft+, agile and get the ball forwards quicker. Admirably complimented by Gini, who's equally mobile (especially in his big match turbo charged mode) and strong as fuck. Milner leads by example.

 

Gini playing deeper doesn't get the ball forwards as quickly (also likely linked to the defence not getting the ball forwards as quick, hence why Hendo dropped back) and we miss his (and both their) energy higher up. 

 

Thiago does the dirty work (when he's not giving away cheap fouls) but isn't as mobile as the others. He's playing further forwards but with less room to pick a pass. Think about his debut v Chelsea, he played deeper and was breaking their lines almost with every pass. I know they were down to 10 but equally important was he was backed up by Fabinho and VVD, so he could take more risks with confidence it wouldn't hurt us.

 

I really like Curtis Jones but he's not consistently at the level of those players yet. Not a criticism, it's the case with younger players. He's doing very well, but he still has a lot to learn.

 

I agree the situation should have been addressed before the final days of the window. But I don't fully think it was the 100% solution other have. Neither do I think it'd would have been the solution in October / November - VVD and Gomez would still likely injured, Matip would still likely have been Matip and it's still likely Fabinho / Phillips / Williams / Hendo would have had to have spend time back there.

 

We've had the same issues since late December, as we've had almost all season. If we'd nose dived immediately after VVD or Gomez's injury, I think it'd have been easier to take. But the fact we got ourselves in a great position and then a massive drop off makes it more difficult to explain. 

 

I know we all won't agree on opinions, but there is clearly just some complete bollocks posted - players being past their peak, our squad is weak, we're in another rebuilding phase - blah blah blah.

 

IMO, we need to all ask ourselves a simples question - If VVD hadn't got crocked for the season, would we be languishing where we are? I'm sure we all think absolutely not. And then all the other injuries have compounded the issue. We went into the season with 3.5 centre backs and all of them have been injured and only Fabinho will be seen again. How many players do we expect to have in those positions? IMO, What we've seen is just a freak occurence. 

 

Could we have been better prepared? Well, yeah. But realistically, how much difference would it have made? We could have signed Upamencano in the summer (hopefully playing better than he has in the CL) but they likelihood is we'd still have gad to partner him with a less tested player.

I've said I think if VVD stayed fit, this wouldn't be the problem it is. 

 

As for this complete drop off, it has coincided with playing Henderson in defence and his place going to thiago - if I recall correctly Henderson's 1st game at centre back was Southampton, which was thiago's 1st start and this was our 1st defeat of the run we've had this year. That was the point our midfield stopped, except for the brief support it got from milner, when we actually picked up some points. So we dipped off when we 1st lost VVD, but the collapse went once we doubled down on destroying the midfield to support the defence. However, that didn't need to happen. We could have gone out and found someone and got it all signed and sealed like we did with VVD 3 years previous and he was ready to go. Once they waited till Gomez got injured, then everyone in the market place would fuck us. But it didn't take a genius to see he'd get injured, it's what he does.

 

It's massively bad planning. Going into the season the risk with vvd was there to see. We should have had plans in place in case this happened. We didn't need to act on it, but it's basic common sense if you're taking a gamble is you protect your position if it goes wrong. It shouldn't have taken both Gomez and Matip to get injured to see a reaction. 

 

As for you comment about a rebuild - well we clearly need one soon as it's an aging squad. Assuming the players come back from injury at the level they were at before, I say carragher is right and we need 3 right through the spine. 2 of them should just be replacements for origi and Gini. The only one net new should be at centre back - and while unlikely, perhaps he's already at the club. 

[Scott_M 5,281]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

I've said I think if VVD stayed fit, this wouldn't be the problem it is. 

 

As for this complete drop off, it has coincided with playing Henderson in defence and his place going to thiago - if I recall correctly Henderson's 1st game at centre back was Southampton, which was thiago's 1st start and this was our 1st defeat of the run we've had this year. That was the point our midfield stopped, except for the brief support it got from milner, when we actually picked up some points. So we dipped off when we 1st lost VVD, but the collapse went once we doubled down on destroying the midfield to support the defence. However, that didn't need to happen. We could have gone out and found someone and got it all signed and sealed like we did with VVD 3 years previous and he was ready to go. Once they waited till Gomez got injured, then everyone in the market place would fuck us. But it didn't take a genius to see he'd get injured, it's what he does.

 

It's massively bad planning. Going into the season the risk with vvd was there to see. We should have had plans in place in case this happened. We didn't need to act on it, but it's basic common sense if you're taking a gamble is you protect your position if it goes wrong. It shouldn't have taken both Gomez and Matip to get injured to see a reaction. 

 

As for you comment about a rebuild - well we clearly need one soon as it's an aging squad. Assuming the players come back from injury at the level they were at before, I say carragher is right and we need 3 right through the spine. 2 of them should just be replacements for origi and Gini. The only one net new should be at centre back - and while unlikely, perhaps he's already at the club. 

Henderson’s first game in defence was against Southampton, but we’d put in largely stale performances against WBA & Newcastle leading up to it. 
 

I don’t disagree on that we should have been looking to invest come 1st January but we were always on a hiding to nothing as soon as VVD was injured. 
 

Would signing Kabak or Davies on the 1st January have made any difference? Who knows. It’s likely they wouldn’t have played until the mancs on 17th January and we won 2/4 games at the end of January.

 

Obviously, there is another conversation on whether Kabak & Davies are of the required quality for us. 
 

We don’t know what happened behind the scenes in terms of attempting to sign somebody.
 

We seem to be heavily in for Konaté of Leipzig, but he has a reduced buy out clause come the summer & why would RBL sell to us before the CL match? 

 

Would Brighton have sold us Ben White in the middle of a relegation battle? Or at least absolutely pulled our pants down in the process of doing so. 
 

On the squad rebuild, it’s not as disastrous as is being made. Yes, players will need replacing in coming seasons, but we don’t need to ship half the squad out in one summer.
 

If he comes back from his injury as good as he was, IMO VVD can continue at this level, like Ramos, until he’s 35/36. Salah and Mane only turn 29 this year and are still contributing on the pitch. Hendo will likely be the oldest player come August and he’ll only just turn 31.

 

I agree with Carra about strengthening the spine, I put similar a page or two back. IMO, we don’t need a wholesale sweeping change. Returning players and quality additions (ie straight into the first 11) in defence, replacing Wijnaldum and another striker will, IMO, see a new impetus. 

[Barrington Womble 9,161]

41 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

Henderson’s first game in defence was against Southampton, but we’d put in largely stale performances against WBA & Newcastle leading up to it. 
 

I don’t disagree on that we should have been looking to invest come 1st January but we were always on a hiding to nothing as soon as VVD was injured. 
 

Would signing Kabak or Davies on the 1st January have made any difference? Who knows. It’s likely they wouldn’t have played until the mancs on 17th January and we won 2/4 games at the end of January.

 

Obviously, there is another conversation on whether Kabak & Davies are of the required quality for us. 
 

We don’t know what happened behind the scenes in terms of attempting to sign somebody.
 

We seem to be heavily in for Konaté of Leipzig, but he has a reduced buy out clause come the summer & why would RBL sell to us before the CL match? 

 

Would Brighton have sold us Ben White in the middle of a relegation battle? Or at least absolutely pulled our pants down in the process of doing so. 
 

On the squad rebuild, it’s not as disastrous as is being made. Yes, players will need replacing in coming seasons, but we don’t need to ship half the squad out in one summer.
 

If he comes back from his injury as good as he was, IMO VVD can continue at this level, like Ramos, until he’s 35/36. Salah and Mane only turn 29 this year and are still contributing on the pitch. Hendo will likely be the oldest player come August and he’ll only just turn 31.

 

I agree with Carra about strengthening the spine, I put similar a page or two back. IMO, we don’t need a wholesale sweeping change. Returning players and quality additions (ie straight into the first 11) in defence, replacing Wijnaldum and another striker will, IMO, see a new impetus. 

newcastle was shit for sure - but I disagree a little about WBA. I think we tried a typical christmas trick, we played really well, we got in front a team that was happy to not get hammered and we almost shook hands on 1-0 at half time. it was a sterile 2nd 45 and we were had off.  i think if that was the week earlier we go on and score more. 

 

but the quality of kabak and davies is absolutely relevant to this discussion i think. we closed the available market by waiting until the friday before the window closed to make our move. we restricted our position even further by making our financial commitment to the deals so small. I said in an earlier post today "The risk/reward of not having a dedicated quality 4th centre back completely changed on 20th October." . While I see kabak and Davies as better than the alternative (which was fuck all), as I've just heard Neil Fitzmaurice say "we asked for a new dishwasher and got a bowl of soapy water". The day VVD was injured, the 1st thing LFC should have been doing was finding a way to bring in a quality centre back on Jan 1. Surviving 2 and a half months is one thing, tagging on the following 5 months was fucking stupid - which we have effectively done anyway with the lateness and the quality of the lads we've brought in. 

 

As for all this "would brighton selll us ben white" - well probably not. I am pretty sure he is not the player we need either, I don't think he brings us anything that kabak doesn't. We should have been trying to get ourselves a quality senior player. they don't have to be VVD, but they need to be able to lead a defence. that is what we lost and had no contingency for. would it have been easy? Probably not, but we all go to work, have challenges that set us back and we need to figure them out. i don't see how "let's see if the crisp bags can sort it" is any type of answer. 

 

Where the squad rebuild is concerned - I've told you what I think needs doing, obvious squad housekeeping. However, given any chance to trade any of Matip, Gomez, Chamberlain, Shaq, Minamino, Wilson, Grujic, Keita for actual footballers who can deliver for LFC we should absolutely do (and I've left off Adrian and karius as I am assuming it's a given they're gone). Klopp doesn't want to turn to chamberlain and origi when things are this shit. and he clearly has minamino behind them or he wouldn't have sanctioned him leaving. if they can't contribute now, i don't see what purpose they serve. as much as i am happy to see keita go too, at least if he's fit klopp will try and put him on the pitch. so for me a rebuild depends a bit on what you think a rebuild means. I think we need to replace Gini, replace origi and add a centre back. So there's 3 players. Then we need to deal with a percentage of those players i listed. That could quickly becomes 6 players, which is probably a rebuild - it's a 1/4 of a squad.  

[Scott_M 5,281]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

newcastle was shit for sure - but I disagree a little about WBA. I think we tried a typical christmas trick, we played really well, we got in front a team that was happy to not get hammered and we almost shook hands on 1-0 at half time. it was a sterile 2nd 45 and we were had off.  i think if that was the week earlier we go on and score more. 

 

but the quality of kabak and davies is absolutely relevant to this discussion i think. we closed the available market by waiting until the friday before the window closed to make our move. we restricted our position even further by making our financial commitment to the deals so small. I said in an earlier post today "The risk/reward of not having a dedicated quality 4th centre back completely changed on 20th October." . While I see kabak and Davies as better than the alternative (which was fuck all), as I've just heard Neil Fitzmaurice say "we asked for a new dishwasher and got a bowl of soapy water". The day VVD was injured, the 1st thing LFC should have been doing was finding a way to bring in a quality centre back on Jan 1. Surviving 2 and a half months is one thing, tagging on the following 5 months was fucking stupid - which we have effectively done anyway with the lateness and the quality of the lads we've brought in. 

 

As for all this "would brighton selll us ben white" - well probably not. I am pretty sure he is not the player we need either, I don't think he brings us anything that kabak doesn't. We should have been trying to get ourselves a quality senior player. they don't have to be VVD, but they need to be able to lead a defence. that is what we lost and had no contingency for. would it have been easy? Probably not, but we all go to work, have challenges that set us back and we need to figure them out. i don't see how "let's see if the crisp bags can sort it" is any type of answer. 

 

Where the squad rebuild is concerned - I've told you what I think needs doing, obvious squad housekeeping. However, given any chance to trade any of Matip, Gomez, Chamberlain, Shaq, Minamino, Wilson, Grujic, Keita for actual footballers who can deliver for LFC we should absolutely do (and I've left off Adrian and karius as I am assuming it's a given they're gone). Klopp doesn't want to turn to chamberlain and origi when things are this shit. and he clearly has minamino behind them or he wouldn't have sanctioned him leaving. if they can't contribute now, i don't see what purpose they serve. as much as i am happy to see keita go too, at least if he's fit klopp will try and put him on the pitch. so for me a rebuild depends a bit on what you think a rebuild means. I think we need to replace Gini, replace origi and add a centre back. So there's 3 players. Then we need to deal with a percentage of those players i listed. That could quickly becomes 6 players, which is probably a rebuild - it's a 1/4 of a squad.  

 

I don't disagree with we should have made a move so that like VVD, somebody was able to come in and be available from 1st January. We might not agree on the players I've mentioned (I only said White and Konate because we've been linked with them) but who? And at what price? I realise we're not all football scouts but if our best suggestions were Tarkowski (from you) and David Luiz (from me), then it shows the difficult position we were in!

 

Clubs were always going to shaft us from VVD's injury and would only double down after Gomez's injury.  Klopp said himself there aren't many players of the quality we'd want and if there were, they wouldn't be available anyway. I'd find it hard to believe we didn't try and adequately replace VVD & Gomez until 29th January.

 

I generally I agree on the players you've listed exiting. Some I'd give another season, some I'd look to move on ASAP, but if reasonable interest was forthcoming for any of them, I wouldn't stand in their way. But it's unrealistic to expect them all to go in 1 summer and replace them with another 8-10 players. If we sell half of them this summer and buy 3 quality replacements, I think thats a fair return.

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Good article with a realistic view of our finances: https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/liverpool-fsg-transfer-net-spend-19916196.amp