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Neil G

Go fuck yourselves FSG

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3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think a negotiating position where we are stronger is more important to us than if the player is perfect for us. Sometimes that's just fine because the player is brilliant (Salah, Alisson), but sometimes it's not.

How does that explain Klopp waiting and waiting for Virgil? I also think you're over playing the Roma situation, if they were that desperate for money why were we the only ones in for Salah and Alisson? We paid at least the going rate for both.

 

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

For example, do you think we'd have brought either minamino or Shaq here if we'd have had to pay market value? And here's the problem, once they're in, if they don't work out, we've then got to flog them to get someone else in and in the mean time, they clog a place up in the squad.

I don't disagree here but equally it makes sense, good player, cheap price, why not? Without Covid,  worst case scenario is we would have doubled our money on Minamino, best case ids he turns out great. Shaq hasn't been a bad signing,  he's been injured more than we would have liked but he's contributed in big ways to the 2 biggest trophies there are.

 

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

We only have about 20-22 senior players plus kids in our 1st team squad, losing maybe half a dozen to people who don't fit, don't have the quality or can't get on the pitch due to injury, undermines us as soon as we get injuries, because they can't contribute when we need them. 

Not sure who you're referring too here, I assume you mean Keita and Ox, I can't think of 6. These 2 were bad buys, not because of company policy but because that sometimes happens. I can only assume they thought they could fix Ox, he wasn't a knock down purchase,  the rate paid was more than he was worth in a normal contract scenario,  final year he was worth half that. 

 

Keita just wasn't what was on the tin. It happens.

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1 hour ago, No2 said:

How does that explain Klopp waiting and waiting for Virgil? I also think you're over playing the Roma situation, if they were that desperate for money why were we the only ones in for Salah and Alisson? We paid at least the going rate for both.

 

I don't disagree here but equally it makes sense, good player, cheap price, why not? Without Covid,  worst case scenario is we would have doubled our money on Minamino, best case ids he turns out great. Shaq hasn't been a bad signing,  he's been injured more than we would have liked but he's contributed in big ways to the 2 biggest trophies there are.

 

Not sure who you're referring too here, I assume you mean Keita and Ox, I can't think of 6. These 2 were bad buys, not because of company policy but because that sometimes happens. I can only assume they thought they could fix Ox, he wasn't a knock down purchase,  the rate paid was more than he was worth in a normal contract scenario,  final year he was worth half that. 

 

Keita just wasn't what was on the tin. It happens.

Keita has been baked beans in a tin marked caviar.

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12 hours ago, aRdja said:

In what way was Keita or Alisson or Jota purchased from the bargain bucket? 

I didn't say Jota. Not have I sad ALL of our transfers are. We've had that already. 

 

I think I've posted plenty why alisson and keita are though. They were effectively sale items despite their price. With Keita we executed the release clause, with alisson we waited until Roma needed the cash for ffp. Prior to that we were going to spend the money on fekir. 

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52 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I didn't say Jota. Not have I sad ALL of our transfers are. We've had that already. 

 

I think I've posted plenty why alisson and keita are though. They were effectively sale items despite their price. With Keita we executed the release clause, with alisson we waited until Roma needed the cash for ffp. Prior to that we were going to spend the money on fekir. 

How was the most expensive goalkeeper ever, a sale item? That’s what I can’t get my head around. Was Neymar a sale item when PSG activated his release clause at €222m? Haaland has a release clause of €75m, is he a middle-aisle Aldi player?

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11 hours ago, No2 said:

How does that explain Klopp waiting and waiting for Virgil? I also think you're over playing the Roma situation, if they were that desperate for money why were we the only ones in for Salah and Alisson? We paid at least the going rate for both.

 

I don't disagree here but equally it makes sense, good player, cheap price, why not? Without Covid,  worst case scenario is we would have doubled our money on Minamino, best case ids he turns out great. Shaq hasn't been a bad signing,  he's been injured more than we would have liked but he's contributed in big ways to the 2 biggest trophies there are.

 

Not sure who you're referring too here, I assume you mean Keita and Ox, I can't think of 6. These 2 were bad buys, not because of company policy but because that sometimes happens. I can only assume they thought they could fix Ox, he wasn't a knock down purchase,  the rate paid was more than he was worth in a normal contract scenario,  final year he was worth half that. 

 

Keita just wasn't what was on the tin. It happens.

I am not sure how to break things up into nice little sections like you did! haha. 

 

Anyway, as I said before it's not the rule to every signing, it is the the majority. In VVDs case, I think we can be pretty fucking sure there was zero negotiating. Southampton said "that'll be £75m in january thanks or we're going to fuck you over with the PL". And so the deal was done. 

 

Salah, Roma were minutes away from failing FFP. Alisson, Roma thought they could get more from Madrid till Madrid laughed at them (iirc Roma were wanting 90m euros at that time). They then came back to us. They didn't sell other players, because these guys were the biggest saleable assets. 

 

I have also said, if the player makes sense "why not". I am not saying we should never use it, I just don't think it should be our starting point. But look at Shaq - he was never a fit for us - he's a good player. Minamino looks to be the same (although personally I am hopeful he can turn it round), but the issue here is it's not about making money on them is it? It is about what they're costing us. Look at Karius as an example, we went and got him on his release clause. He literally cost us a european cup. Not being able to get about a quarter or more of our squad on the pitch this season (and some if it isn't just fitness, shaq, chamberlain, minamino are just not deemed suitable by the manager) has cost us the league, or certainly cost us a chance of contesting the league. 

 

So 6 players who contribute the square root of fuck all in our squad because we they either don't fit in or good enough, are never fit or we can't sell because our expectation on sale price is too high? Chamberlain, Keita, Adrian, Origi, Minamino, Shaq - there's 6 and to be honest, I could chuck in Wilson, Grujic & Karius too who are players who the reason they're still liverpool players is our valuation of them exceeds what the market thinks and instead of getting a market value and bringing in a player who can contribute, leaves us another man short. Before them there have been players like Clyne, Lallana and Sturridge. 

 

Our squad is on it's arse, yet we have loads of players who offer nothing and are just clogging up our squad. 

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1 hour ago, aRdja said:

How was the most expensive goalkeeper ever, a sale item? That’s what I can’t get my head around. Was Neymar a sale item when PSG activated his release clause at €222m? Haaland has a release clause of €75m, is he a middle-aisle Aldi player?

so if i wanted to buy a car that is worth 10m quid but I had a discount couple that let me have it for 8m, that wouldn't be a sale item? a release clause is exactly that. and absolutely if haaland caries on his current form, he will also be a sale item, because he will be worth double that. that doesn't mean we shouldn't buy him, I have said that about a million times and i think you are just trying to be obtuse. i have no issue if we occasionally find a bargain, that is good business - in the same way sometimes you can pick up a brilliant camping stove in the middle aisle at Aldi. That's only good though if you need a camping stove. it's a bit of a waste of money if you don't. we shouldn't be starting our search for players where we can get a deal. we should be starting our search where we think they are the right fit. if they are also the right price, that is a bonus. 

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41 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

so if i wanted to buy a car that is worth 10m quid but I had a discount couple that let me have it for 8m, that wouldn't be a sale item? a release clause is exactly that. and absolutely if haaland caries on his current form, he will also be a sale item, because he will be worth double that. that doesn't mean we shouldn't buy him, I have said that about a million times and i think you are just trying to be obtuse. i have no issue if we occasionally find a bargain, that is good business - in the same way sometimes you can pick up a brilliant camping stove in the middle aisle at Aldi. That's only good though if you need a camping stove. it's a bit of a waste of money if you don't. we shouldn't be starting our search for players where we can get a deal. we should be starting our search where we think they are the right fit. if they are also the right price, that is a bonus. 

That’s not right. Aldi items (middle-aisle of otherwise) *always* cheaper than alternatives. It’s literally their business model. I know that because like you, I buy camping items from Aldi. In the case of Alisson and Keita you’d actually struggle to find more expensive alternatives for them. Therefore they’re closer to Harrods items than Aldi, no?
 

Let’s use your example above, a £10m car, 20% discount now for sale at £8m. Still for the time, the most expensive car ever. Where do you think you’d be more likely to find this £8m car, middle-aisle Aldi or Harrods?
 

Honestly I’m not trying to be obtuse, I’m just trying to understand your analogy, because I still think you’re wide off the mark with this one.

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5 hours ago, aRdja said:

That’s not right. Aldi items (middle-aisle of otherwise) *always* cheaper than alternatives. It’s literally their business model. I know that because like you, I buy camping items from Aldi. In the case of Alisson and Keita you’d actually struggle to find more expensive alternatives for them. Therefore they’re closer to Harrods items than Aldi, no?
 

Let’s use your example above, a £10m car, 20% discount now for sale at £8m. Still for the time, the most expensive car ever. Where do you think you’d be more likely to find this £8m car, middle-aisle Aldi or Harrods?
 

Honestly I’m not trying to be obtuse, I’m just trying to understand your analogy, because I still think you’re wide off the mark with this one.

Keita we signed because he had a release clause. The reason we didn't get him when we wanted is because we litterally couldn't afford the price tag and waited a year to get the sale price. Exactly the same with alisson, there was a price ticket Roma thought they could get from madrid, so did we and went to spend our money on fekir. Madrid didn't come through with the cash, Roma had to raise cash, contacted us, we had our lucky fekir escape (or perhaps deliberate escape) and alisson went from a €90m purchase to a €65m. It's pretty much the definition of a fire sale despite how much he cost. There was a much inferior goalkeeper went for his release clause for more money a month later. 

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I think you're both getting off the issue here. Nobody is disputing that FSG have spent money. But look at our squad and look at where we are. They just haven't spent enough, and now they need to spend more. 

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6 minutes ago, General Dryness said:

I think you're both getting off the issue here. Nobody is disputing that FSG have spent money. But look at our squad and look at where we are. They just haven't spent enough, and now they need to spend more. 

I think with hindsight, it's bad squad building. We're mostly sell to buy and that's going to stay. They won't spend more without selling. And because of that, the lack of investment is linked with not selling well.

 

Extending Matip and Ox, and being stingy on the fees we want for Shaqiri and Origi are all bad decisions. We could have gotten rid of those 4, made a profit on Shaqiri, Matip and Origi at the very least and reinvested. But we didn't, and here we are with squad depth that isn't actually squad depth because these players are not reliable. 

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2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Keita we signed because he had a release clause. The reason we didn't get him when we wanted is because we litterally couldn't afford the price tag and waited a year to get the sale price. Exactly the same with alisson, there was a price ticket Roma thought they could get from madrid, so did we and went to spend our money on fekir. Madrid didn't come through with the cash, Roma had to raise cash, contacted us, we had our lucky fekir escape (or perhaps deliberate escape) and alisson went from a €90m purchase to a €65m. It's pretty much the definition of a fire sale despite how much he cost. There was a much inferior goalkeeper went for his release clause for more money a month later. 

But by your definition Kepa was also purchased from the bargain bucket because Chelsea activated his release clause? Therefore the two most expensive goalkeepers in the world were purchased from middle-aisle Aldi. 

 

With all due respect, this release clause issue is not relevant IMO. Neymar was sold on a release clause of €222m. Is he a middle-aisle Aldi player?

 

If John Henry goes “fuck it” and decide to go meet Messi’s release clause next summer, then I would be happy to argue with anyone that he isn’t a a middle-aisle Aldi footballer.

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1 hour ago, aRdja said:

But by your definition Kepa was also purchased from the bargain bucket because Chelsea activated his release clause? Therefore the two most expensive goalkeepers in the world were purchased from middle-aisle Aldi. 

 

With all due respect, this release clause issue is not relevant IMO. Neymar was sold on a release clause of €222m. Is he a middle-aisle Aldi player?

 

If John Henry goes “fuck it” and decide to go meet Messi’s release clause next summer, then I would be happy to argue with anyone that he isn’t a a middle-aisle Aldi footballer.

Spanish release clauses are different as they are set by Spanish law and not something that is inserted at the behest of the agent and the player. 

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1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Spanish release clauses are different as they are set by Spanish law and not something that is inserted at the behest of the agent and the player. 

Let me pose a question to you.. which goalkeeper could we have purchased if we fucked Aldi off and decided to shop at Harrods instead?

 

I guess my issue is Aldi is a discount supermarket. You don’t go to Aldi to buy the most expensive products (good value or otherwise), you go to Harrods. Keita was the third most expensive CM at the time, and you don’t find the third most expensive anything at Aldi. It just doesn’t happen. 

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So Chelsea will embark on another spending spree in the summer worth £260m regardless of whether they get top 4 or not.

 

Meanwhile we will have Reddy, Pearce and Gorst drip feeding articles non stop telling us how clever FSG will be in the market because of the pandemic and the club missing out on the top 4. 

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14 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Fucking chalk board nail scratching screech voice Reddy has starting her fluffing campaign for FSG 

I read that. Shes just annoying her. How many times does it have to be said that these owners never spend. They didn't spend when we won the European Cup. Nothing changes for me. And all this talk about struggling to retain best players. I'm not having that. If some of these lads want to jump we all know fsg will push them. All about the dollar. The club is too big for Henry and co. 

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16 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Fucking chalk board nail scratching screech voice Reddy has starting her fluffing campaign for FSG 

What's the FSG puppet saying now??.

 

Liverpool comfortable with centre back options this summer having invested in Kabak and Davies with Van Dijk, Gomez and Matip all set to return.

 

Liverpool will not seek to replace Wijnaldum due to the emerging talents of Curtis Jones and Harvey Elliot. 

 

Liverpool careful about signing foreign players due to Brexit and new EU rules that will only affect Liverpool's transfer strategy and no one else's.

 

Liverpool concerned over Allison's form this season and could possibly move him on to provide transfer funds. Kelleher is seen as his long term replacement. 

 

FSG are anxious for their investment in Kirkby to provide first team regulars as soon as possible and Klopp is relaxed about summer recruitment.

 

With Evertons new stadium having  planning permission, FSG are anxious to proceed with the Anfield road end as quickly as possible, however, this will mean no significant incoming this summer.

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7 hours ago, aRdja said:

Let me pose a question to you.. which goalkeeper could we have purchased if we fucked Aldi off and decided to shop at Harrods instead?

 

I guess my issue is Aldi is a discount supermarket. You don’t go to Aldi to buy the most expensive products (good value or otherwise), you go to Harrods. Keita was the third most expensive CM at the time, and you don’t find the third most expensive anything at Aldi. It just doesn’t happen. 

Fuck me. You are completely ignoring the words in my posts and focusing on tiny bits like some sort of tabloid journalist. At no point in this thread have I said 1. We shouldn't have signed alisson. 2. We shouldn't buy players if they're reduced in price. I'm saying it shouldn't be a starting point. I'll put it to you another way, when we got Karius on his release clause, which goalkeeper who we could have bought at market rate that summer wouldn't have cost us a European cup?  We would not have signed Karius if he had been market rate. 

 

My point is I believe we need to do something about 3 aspects of squad management. 

1. Look at the crisp bags and work out a way to not have so many in the squad who just hang around till their contract expires. They burn up wages and contribute zero. 

2. Look at players on the fringes who are either wasted assets (gruic/Wilson) or burn off squad places (origi) and contribute zero. Find a way to release those assets and not clog up the squad or have valuable assets playing at other clubs who we've no intention of playing - unless of course we're adopting Chelsea's people trafficking transfer policy, which I don't believe we are, we want to sell both Grujic and Wilson, we just value them too highly. This may also contribute to point 1. 

3. Instead of making the starting point for buying players "is there a deal?". Start with "is this a Liverpool player" and if he is on a deal too, great. We have to stop clogging our squad up with players who the day they come in you're scratching your head wondering how they get a game because we don't play with that type of player and in many cases not even a position on the pitch.

 

I also posted earlier, perhaps we don't have to change all 3 policies. Perhaps we could change one. Perhaps we could tweak all 3. 

 

The bottom line is we don't have a thin squad because we are short of players. We have a thin squad because about quarter to a third of it offers fuck all season on season, so when we get an injury crisis, we can't cope. We need to put an end to that and get more of the assets we have at our disposal in a position to contribute. 

 

I'm not saying any more on this as I'm just going round and round in circles on it and you're like a dog with a bone fixated on a tiny bit of a much larger view on our squad management. 

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16 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

So Chelsea will embark on another spending spree in the summer worth £260m regardless of whether they get top 4 or not.

 

Meanwhile we will have Reddy, Pearce and Gorst drip feeding articles non stop telling us how clever FSG will be in the market because of the pandemic and the club missing out on the top 4. 

Yep all fsg’s little minions them.

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10 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

 

 

What's the FSG puppet saying now??.

 

Liverpool comfortable with centre back options this summer having invested in Kabak and Davies with Van Dijk, Gomez and Matip all set to return.

 

Liverpool will not seek to replace Wijnaldum due to the emerging talents of Curtis Jones and Harvey Elliot. 

 

Liverpool careful about signing foreign players due to Brexit and new EU rules that will only affect Liverpool's transfer strategy and no one else's.

 

Liverpool concerned over Allison's form this season and could possibly move him on to provide transfer funds. Kelleher is seen as his long term replacement. 

 

FSG are anxious for their investment in Kirkby to provide first team regulars as soon as possible and Klopp is relaxed about summer recruitment.

 

With Evertons new stadium having  planning permission, FSG are anxious to proceed with the Anfield road end as quickly as possible, however, this will mean no significant incoming this summer.

Won’t be far off that. They’ve been blagging us to fuck since they’ve been here starting with the Penny pinching in that stupid clynt Dempsey deal.

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8 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

 

 

What's the FSG puppet saying now??.

 

Liverpool comfortable with centre back options this summer having invested in Kabak and Davies with Van Dijk, Gomez and Matip all set to return.

 

Liverpool will not seek to replace Wijnaldum due to the emerging talents of Curtis Jones and Harvey Elliot. 

 

Liverpool careful about signing foreign players due to Brexit and new EU rules that will only affect Liverpool's transfer strategy and no one else's.

 

Liverpool concerned over Allison's form this season and could possibly move him on to provide transfer funds. Kelleher is seen as his long term replacement. 

 

FSG are anxious for their investment in Kirkby to provide first team regulars as soon as possible and Klopp is relaxed about summer recruitment.

 

With Evertons new stadium having  planning permission, FSG are anxious to proceed with the Anfield road end as quickly as possible, however, this will mean no significant incoming this summer.

It's brilliant. Today the echo are running a piece on the club being too nice is costing them on the pitch. Exhibit one is letting minamino go to Southampton and his goals since have shown he is clearly ready for the premier league. So how is that is being too nice? It's about us being too tight or klopp failing to find a way to play him. Because after the palace game he got about 10 mins action till we let him go. 

 

Exhibit 2. Allowing lovren to join zenit was because we loved the player so much. There's no mention we could have just bought another centre back. There's no mention that we allocated his transfer fee to buy Kostas. Just being too nice harmed us. 

 

It's fucking insane the lengths the echo will go to to perpetuate positivity vibes around the management of the club. 

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17 minutes ago, Freddo said:

I read that. Shes just annoying her. How many times does it have to be said that these owners never spend. They didn't spend when we won the European Cup. Nothing changes for me. And all this talk about struggling to retain best players. I'm not having that. If some of these lads want to jump we all know fsg will push them. All about the dollar. The club is too big for Henry and co. 

Yep they’ve no,idea what they’ve got on their hands. Only we under fsg could be European champions and league champions and not push on from there. Our bench on sat was worse than Everton’s and injuries or not how can that be right.

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16 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Fuck me. You are completely ignoring the words in my posts and focusing on tiny bits like some sort of tabloid journalist. At no point in this thread have I said 1. We shouldn't have signed alisson. 2. We shouldn't buy players if they're reduced in price. I'm saying it shouldn't be a starting point. I'll put it to you another way, when we got Karius on his release clause, which goalkeeper who we could have bought at market rate that summer wouldn't have cost us a European cup?  We would not have signed Karius if he had been market rate. 

 

My point is I believe we need to do something about 3 aspects of squad management. 

1. Look at the crisp bags and work out a way to not have so many in the squad who just hang around till their contract expires. They burn up wages and contribute zero. 

2. Look at players on the fringes who are either wasted assets (gruic/Wilson) or burn off squad places (origi) and contribute zero. Find a way to release those assets and not clog up the squad or have valuable assets playing at other clubs who we've no intention of playing - unless of course we're adopting Chelsea's people trafficking transfer policy, which I don't believe we are, we want to sell both Grujic and Wilson, we just value them too highly. This may also contribute to point 1. 

3. Instead of making the starting point for buying players "is there a deal?". Start with "is this a Liverpool player" and if he is on a deal too, great. We have to stop clogging our squad up with players who the day they come in you're scratching your head wondering how they get a game because we don't play with that type of player and in many cases not even a position on the pitch.

 

I also posted earlier, perhaps we don't have to change all 3 policies. Perhaps we could change one. Perhaps we could tweak all 3. 

 

The bottom line is we don't have a thin squad because we are short of players. We have a thin squad because about quarter to a third of it offers fuck all season on season, so when we get an injury crisis, we can't cope. We need to put an end to that and get more of the assets we have at our disposal in a position to contribute. 

 

I'm not saying any more on this as I'm just going round and round in circles on it and you're like a dog with a bone fixated on a tiny bit of a much larger view on our squad management. 

I agree with you that we do look for bargains when possible. I agree with that we purchased some players like Minamino and Shaq because they wereseen as good value. I disagree with you wrt the inclusion of some of the most expensive players the league has ever seen. I don’t think we bought Alisson because he was ‘good value’. We bought him because we need a world class goalkeeper, and he’s a world class goalkeeper. We could’ve easily purchased a cheaper alternative. Courtois went for half his price for example. Keita was meant to be a statement purchase. He was the second best player in Bundesliga when we sealed the deal. We did activate his release clause but so what? Doesn’t make it a bargain, with it without hindsight. I don’t think FSG is the ideal owner. Far from it. I don’t want businessmen owning the club. I want it owned and run by someone who wants to win at all cost. I just disagree with your assessment of some of our players/transfers.

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