Go fuck yourselves FSG

[Barrington Womble 8,470]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

I don't see why people who have been part of delivering trophies shouldn't get some credit. Let's just say that the people who think they are brilliant come across as less crazy than the people who can't admit they do a single thing right. They're less tedious as well.

 

57 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I did. You just got mad for some reason.

Great debate. No big girl crying at all. 

[clockspeed 186]

2 hours ago, magicrat said:

Not getting Werner was massive mistake . I could have forgiven most of the other dithering , even no Thiago , had they signed him at what will I am sure look a bargain for Chelsea in years to come . 

Worse he would have suited us better . He may not have the conversion rate of a top top striker but the chances he would have got playing in our team would have led to him being a twenty a season striker. Anyone that saw his pace and pressing can see he was ideal for us . Only needed one signing this summer and we decided to play smartarse furloughing staff etc etc instead of getting this done and selling some of the squad to pay for it.  

[Bobby Hundreds 7,865]

Wheres the fucking chocolate fund gone John? EH... wheres it gone John!

[BeefStroganoff 27]

2 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Fuck's sake, how hard is it? The club's income, together with every other club, is down due to the current situation. The club has no current sleeve sponsor despite being at it's zenith. Why do you think that is, the club wanting an increase on the £5m a season deal it had with WU or, companies not throwing cash at football? That's £5m the club has 'lost.'

 

No season ticket sales, unlike some other clubs who have made fans pay up front and will then rebate them. That means the club hasnt got £20m up front to play with. There's still no sign when fans will be allowed back in. 14,000? Fuck off.

 

The club has to pay back tv money. That's about £15m for last season I heard and that doesnt take into account the PL losing the £500m over the course of the contract with that Chinese tv company.

 

That's clocking on for £50m lost income. We made a pre tax profit of £42m the season before last.

 

Where's the money gone? It goes on expenditure, that's where.

 

yes, yes its hard to fathom, completely and totally. So we are broke because of a sleeve sponsor?

 

You are making far too many concessions for this lot. Do you forget we are actually getting in revenue in other areas? Merchandising? Partnerships? I mean we announced two or three during covid.

 

As i said previously, its not just the winning prize money but money for coming runners up in the big comps too over the last few seasons, the sales of players too like Ings for instance. We have pulled in a whopping haul of cash THAT NO ONE FUCKING ELSE HAS.

 

So again, apart from sleeves and 'paying the bills' where has the cash gone. And if you could, answer me this. Without winning the CL and coming runners up, the same for the Premier League too, in the last few seasons, what would be our financial situation now? Would we be on the verge of bankruptcy? What is our financial model? How is it setup for continual success? 

 

Answers on a postcard.

[3 Stacks 2,334]

3 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

People hate all the masturbatory articles, but there's some truth to them. We've won the biggest prizes with low net spend, playing good football, making great decisions. We're also back to a level of popularity where we have bandwagon and foreign fans joining in loads. What the club has accomplished is brilliant. Again, people just don't like that some people they don't like are getting some credit. 

 

3 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

No, of course not. Did we win anything before we signed Benteke, Firmino, Milner on big wages? No. We sell players and buy replacements/improve the squad with the money. That's the club's strategy in the market. Is it sustainable to win trophies after Klopp goes? We'll see. We certainly came close before that. 

 

48 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Great debate. No big girl crying at all. 

Yeah loads of crying in the posts above. Just looks like contributing to the debate to me.

 

You're the one who got mad here. Just be self aware about it. It's fine. You're in this thread every day saying some valid stuff, but also sometimes talking loads of crap about the owners of a club that has won loads of trophies in the last few years. Think about that.

[Salou 59]

21 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

yes, yes its hard to fathom, completely and totally. So we are broke because of a sleeve sponsor?

 

You are making far too many concessions for this lot. Do you forget we are actually getting in revenue in other areas? Merchandising? Partnerships? I mean we announced two or three during covid.

 

As i said previously, its not just the winning prize money but money for coming runners up in the big comps too over the last few seasons, the sales of players too like Ings for instance. We have pulled in a whopping haul of cash THAT NO ONE FUCKING ELSE HAS.

 

So again, apart from sleeves and 'paying the bills' where has the cash gone. And if you could, answer me this. Without winning the CL and coming runners up, the same for the Premier League too, in the last few seasons, what would be our financial situation now? Would we be on the verge of bankruptcy? What is our financial model? How is it setup for continual success? 

 

Answers on a postcard.

are you being intentionally dim? there have been multiple threads posted on exactly where all the money we make goes. the more we make the more we spend in higher wages or costs - if we didn't win the champs league then we wouldn't be spending as much because we didn't have that cash. If i get paid 1000 a month then i'll spend a 1000 a month, if i get paid 600 a month i'll spend 600 a month - that's our model it's pretty simple. Our costs fluctuate depending on how much we make (one of the main reasons contracts with our players are so heavily incentivised). 

 

and what are you talking about that we've pulled in money that nobody else has - just look at what others have made in terms of income and we are very similar, nowhere near united or the other big european clubs.

 

you can criticise the owners for not providing additional funding or taking that risk on future earnings like other clubs do but not spending what we make is the wrong argument.

[INTORRESTING 402]

14 hours ago, Salou said:

Why are the finance articles bullshit?

 

the articles are absolutely correct - we spend what we make - we don't spend using loans/owners money. its simple, whether that's right or wrong is another question but the financial analysis is absolutely correct. 

I don't think they are bullshit, I think the timing of them is very deliberate and very patronising.  I also think it is a bit naive to rely on one interpretation. 

 

I  wasn't solely referring the the financial articles.  There are others in their PR arsenal -  the we promote from within articles and the [insert player here] is like a new player articles.

 

Also, they release training ground pictures or planning permission documents when the window closes.  We also always announce a sponsor when the window closes. 

 

They are a hedge fund who ultimately have money as their main driver.  That's fine, it's better than Hicks and Gillett.  However, lets not pretend that the best team in the world can't buy anyone or compete for the best players. 

 

If we don't win the league and the CL this year, what happens?  Do we sell Mane and not replace?

 

What happens if we finish outside the top 4, we sell Salah and don't replace?

 

If Klopp goes, and the new guy tanks, then what?

 

I think them saying this is our business model is bullshit.  They are not spending because they feel they have deadwood to shift first and they are confident Klopp can deliver, so they won't spend.

 

If we struggle and the club/asset starts struggling, they will find the money, they will also have to spend if they need to make it attractive to potential buyers.

 

They won us the title, I love them for that, and they have transformed the club,  but I am not interested in their PR machine - i know it comes with the territory, especially in the USA - it doesn't mean we have to agree or like it though.  The best team in the world should be improving, you can never stand still.

It is a shame, as with a bit more investment, I think we would have another 1 or 2 titles and maybe a CL.

 

I don't see why it has to be so extreme either.  You can be happy and criticise, constructive criticism is key in any walk of life. 

 

I don't want to know where the Cadburys money is and I don't think he really is buying any yachts.  However, spending the least in the last 4 windows is clearly unacceptable yet their spin has people swearing blind that it is okay.  We spent more than this 20 years ago.

 

I think we will get what we need by the end of the window.  But you can only scrap around for so long.

 

I don't want oil money, but with Nike, TV money, prize money and commercial money, there should be more available.  Why do you have to break even all of a sudden?  Why is debt a dirty word?  Debt is the cheapest it has ever been and it is quite normal for business to borrow and at certain times you have to put in capital to maintain what you have.  A top quality player could win the league and CL for us.

 

This is a genuine chance to build a dynasty at home and in Europe.  I know you can't have everything, but we are so close to nearly having it all.

 

 

[Moo 660]

2 minutes ago, Salou said:

are you being intentionally dim? there have been multiple threads posted on exactly where all the money we make goes. the more we make the more we spend in higher wages or costs - if we didn't win the champs league then we wouldn't be spending as much because we didn't have that cash. If i get paid 1000 a month then i'll spend a 1000 a month, if i get paid 600 a month i'll spend 600 a month - that's our model it's pretty simple. Our costs fluctuate depending on how much we make (one of the main reasons contracts with our players are so heavily incentivised). 

 

and what are you talking about that we've pulled in money that nobody else has - just look at what others have made in terms of income and we are very similar, nowhere near united or the other big european clubs.

 

you can criticise the owners for not providing additional funding or taking that risk on future earnings like other clubs do but not spending what we make is the wrong argument.

Why take a risk on future earnings rather than spend what we've already made since, and including winning the CL, in 2019?  

If we have to tighten our belts due to losses in the financial year 2020-21 why not wait and see how the land lies in 2021 and then tighten belts if necessary?

[TheHowieLama 10,702]

I have just read on the Transfer thread that Barca are broke!

 

How can that be??

 

They are the most valuable team in the world and rake in 30% more than we per year.

[Trumo 13,911]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

I have just read on the Transfer thread that Barca are broke!

 

How can that be??

 

They are the most valuable team in the world and rake in 30% more than we per year.

 

They piss a lot of money up the wall on transfer fees and wages. They've never really kept proper control over their expenditure because they always feel like they need a marquee signing, especially if Real Madrid go and make one, and because the people who run for club president always promise the earth. On top of that, over the past 20 years the club has had to sell 2 key players in Figo and Neymar whom had their buy-out clauses met, and they've panicked and signed players ill-suited to the squad. They have powerful and wealthy allies within the Catalan banking system who are always prepared to bail out the club when they've pushed too far.

[an tha 5,770]

Everton 188m revenue....160m wage bill.

 

Highest wage to turnover ratio in league....muvh higher than ours.

 

Reduced revenues - no European footy....still finding the money to improve their squad.

 

Not saying we have to spend same or more, but it feels wrong to me that we where we are seemingly can't improve our squad.

 

 

[BeefStroganoff 27]

18 minutes ago, Salou said:

are you being intentionally dim? there have been multiple threads posted on exactly where all the money we make goes. the more we make the more we spend in higher wages or costs - if we didn't win the champs league then we wouldn't be spending as much because we didn't have that cash. If i get paid 1000 a month then i'll spend a 1000 a month, if i get paid 600 a month i'll spend 600 a month - that's our model it's pretty simple. Our costs fluctuate depending on how much we make (one of the main reasons contracts with our players are so heavily incentivised). 

 

and what are you talking about that we've pulled in money that nobody else has - just look at what others have made in terms of income and we are very similar, nowhere near united or the other big european clubs.

 

you can criticise the owners for not providing additional funding or taking that risk on future earnings like other clubs do but not spending what we make is the wrong argument.

No you are the dim one. You are telling me that the owners have set up a structure that if we rake in prize winning funds we disperse it evenly through the team? If you are talking bonuses, they won't be gigantic at all. Certainly they won't take up all the prize winning funds, all the partnerships, all the merchandise, the nike deal and any outgoing sales.

 

Utter, utter, rubbish. Fans have been spun a tale of this amazing wage bill the team is on and what amazing prize winning incentives players have got. Its utter horseshit. Also this covid excuse is getting ridiculous. The fans won't be away forever, if they are football will collapse anyway so it makes no difference.

 

And dont point me to the fucking swiss ramble either as gospel!

 

Jurgen Klopp has asked for about 90 million this summer for three players, hardly a kings ransom considering Chelsea have spent nearly that on one player.

[dockers_strike 1,910]

1 minute ago, Trumo said:

 

They piss a lot of money up the wall on transfer fees and wages. They've never really kept proper control over their expenditure because they always feel like they need a marquee signing, especially if Real Madrid go and make one, and because the people who run for club president always promise the earth. On top of that, over the past 20 years the club has had to sell 2 key players in Figo and Neymar whom had their buy-out clauses met, and they've panicked and signed players ill-suited to the squad. They have powerful and wealthy allies within the Catalan banking system who are always prepared to bail out the club when they've pushed too far.

Both Real and Barcelona plus one or two other clubs are finding out living on the never never and having benefactors in Government or the banking system can go south quicker than ducks in winter when the perfect storm hits. Like now.

 

While it might not exactly be the day of reckoning for those clubs, they are finding the money tree has been severely pruned back and life isnt so easy.

 

Ive just read someone insinuate our commercial department isnt very good because the club cannot secure a sleeve sponsorship deal. In this climate. Jesus wept, some people really need to think first.

[BeefStroganoff 27]

I need to stop swearing seriously...

[No2 821]

14 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

yes, yes its hard to fathom, completely and totally. So we are broke because of a sleeve sponsor?

 

You are making far too many concessions for this lot. Do you forget we are actually getting in revenue in other areas? Merchandising? Partnerships? I mean we announced two or three during covid.

 

As i said previously, its not just the winning prize money but money for coming runners up in the big comps too over the last few seasons, the sales of players too like Ings for instance. We have pulled in a whopping haul of cash THAT NO ONE FUCKING ELSE HAS.

 

So again, apart from sleeves and 'paying the bills' where has the cash gone. And if you could, answer me this. Without winning the CL and coming runners up, the same for the Premier League too, in the last few seasons, what would be our financial situation now? Would we be on the verge of bankruptcy? What is our financial model? How is it setup for continual success? 

 

Answers on a postcard.

Without the success the players and staff would have been paid a shit load less. I mean a shit load, they are some of the best paid players in the world because our model rewards success. It's really not hard to fathom. 

[Trumo 13,911]

2 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Jurgen Klopp has asked for about 90 million this summer for three players...

 

Where?

[BeefStroganoff 27]

Just now, Trumo said:

 

Where?

Havertz. 75mil

[dockers_strike 1,910]

3 minutes ago, an tha said:

Everton 188m revenue....160m wage bill.

 

Highest wage to turnover ratio in league....muvh higher than ours.

 

Reduced revenues - no European footy....still finding the money to improve their squad.

 

Not saying we have to spend same or more, but it feels wrong to me that we where we are seemingly can't improve our squad.

 

 

Would not surprise me when BMD falls through that everton become the first established PL club to sell woodison to moshiri in a bid to write down their overall debt position.

[dockers_strike 1,910]

3 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

No you are the dim one. You are telling me that the owners have set up a structure that if we rake in prize winning funds we disperse it evenly through the team? If you are talking bonuses, they won't be gigantic at all. Certainly they won't take up all the prize winning funds, all the partnerships, all the merchandise, the nike deal and any outgoing sales.

 

Utter, utter, rubbish. Fans have been spun a tale of this amazing wage bill the team is on and what amazing prize winning incentives players have got. Its utter horseshit. Also this covid excuse is getting ridiculous. The fans won't be away forever, if they are football will collapse anyway so it makes no difference.

 

And dont point me to the fucking swiss ramble either as gospel!

 

Jurgen Klopp has asked for about 90 million this summer for three players, hardly a kings ransom considering Chelsea have spent nearly that on one player.

You should take up writing fantasy novels!

[Barrington Womble 8,470]

30 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

 

 

Yeah loads of crying in the posts above. Just looks like contributing to the debate to me.

 

You're the one who got mad here. Just be self aware about it. It's fine. You're in this thread every day saying some valid stuff, but also sometimes talking loads of crap about the owners of a club that has won loads of trophies in the last few years. Think about that.

think about what? because we won trophies it makes fsg great? man united won loads of stuff under the glazers and can we all agree they're fucking awful owners? just happening to be in charge of a club at a point in time when the manager was good is indications of nothing really except the manager & players are good. think about that. 

 

loads and loads of people who try to defend this lot will come out with stuff like "we used to be run like a corner shop", "we didn't capitalise on Istanbul because the shop was shut the day after". I think most would agree Moores & Parry did their best but they were probably just not up to the job and were clearly uncomfortable with whoring us around to sponsors. Yet our commercial revenue is further behind manchester united now than it was when FSG arrived in any way you want to measure it (that was all done to death earlier in this thread, so I won't go over it again). And the gap has only got bigger under the current CEO who was previously responsible for those commercial revenues. 

 

This lot have also failed to take advantage of our last 2 big wins. They might have had the club shop open (but honestly how much does that make in 1 day we need to get stressed about not capitalising on a final), but what is it translating to? They can't even back the manager, what exactly are they getting right - their job is to sign the cheques, yet the cheques would bounce. They can't find the 60m to put a new extension on the annie road. You can give covid all you like, but what was the excuse last year after madrid? Why after 10 years is the road end still just a drawing? It seems to be this idea that because we have hundreds of sponsors (although we don't even have a sleeve sponsor), that we are some how capitalising on things, yet surely the test of that is it translating in allowing the manager the players he needs? Are these commercial deals worth anything in significant value?  If we're not providing fund for the manager, well we might as well be a corner shop. 

 

The key here, is people want to believe they're here to win. I believe to them winning means increasing the value of their asset and they really don't care at all if they actually win any silverware. If they gave the tiniest fuck about what was happening on the pitch, they would pop over and watch more than a game a season. 

 

while people want to come on here and try and defend the indefensible, i will continue to call them out on it. 

 

and i can do all this complaining without having to even touch on stuff like the ticketing fiasco and all the copyrighting shite, the fucking cheeky cunts. i refer you to the title of the thread. 

 

 

[TheHowieLama 10,702]

@Barrington Womble

It will all be over soon enough Baz, have a breather.

[Elite 8,555]

I tell you what though lads, @Barrington Womblehome brew will be the dogs bollocks. He won't rest until it's bang on.

[Marko121 354]

26 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

think about what? because we won trophies it makes fsg great? man united won loads of stuff under the glazers and can we all agree they're fucking awful owners? just happening to be in charge of a club at a point in time when the manager was good is indications of nothing really except the manager & players are good. think about that. 

 

loads and loads of people who try to defend this lot will come out with stuff like "we used to be run like a corner shop", "we didn't capitalise on Istanbul because the shop was shut the day after". I think most would agree Moores & Parry did their best but they were probably just not up to the job and were clearly uncomfortable with whoring us around to sponsors. Yet our commercial revenue is further behind manchester united now than it was when FSG arrived in any way you want to measure it (that was all done to death earlier in this thread, so I won't go over it again). And the gap has only got bigger under the current CEO who was previously responsible for those commercial revenues. 

 

This lot have also failed to take advantage of our last 2 big wins. They might have had the club shop open (but honestly how much does that make in 1 day we need to get stressed about not capitalising on a final), but what is it translating to? They can't even back the manager, what exactly are they getting right - their job is to sign the cheques, yet the cheques would bounce. They can't find the 60m to put a new extension on the annie road. You can give covid all you like, but what was the excuse last year after madrid? Why after 10 years is the road end still just a drawing? It seems to be this idea that because we have hundreds of sponsors (although we don't even have a sleeve sponsor), that we are some how capitalising on things, yet surely the test of that is it translating in allowing the manager the players he needs? Are these commercial deals worth anything in significant value?  If we're not providing fund for the manager, well we might as well be a corner shop. 

 

The key here, is people want to believe they're here to win. I believe to them winning means increasing the value of their asset and they really don't care at all if they actually win any silverware. If they gave the tiniest fuck about what was happening on the pitch, they would pop over and watch more than a game a season. 

 

while people want to come on here and try and defend the indefensible, i will continue to call them out on it. 

 

and i can do all this complaining without having to even touch on stuff like the ticketing fiasco and all the copyrighting shite, the fucking cheeky cunts. i refer you to the title of the thread. 

 

 

Agree with every word

[dockers_strike 1,910]

1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

yes, yes its hard to fathom, completely and totally. So we are broke because of a sleeve sponsor?

 

You are making far too many concessions for this lot. Do you forget we are actually getting in revenue in other areas? Merchandising? Partnerships? I mean we announced two or three during covid.

 

As i said previously, its not just the winning prize money but money for coming runners up in the big comps too over the last few seasons, the sales of players too like Ings for instance. We have pulled in a whopping haul of cash THAT NO ONE FUCKING ELSE HAS.

 

So again, apart from sleeves and 'paying the bills' where has the cash gone. And if you could, answer me this. Without winning the CL and coming runners up, the same for the Premier League too, in the last few seasons, what would be our financial situation now? Would we be on the verge of bankruptcy? What is our financial model? How is it setup for continual success? 

 

Answers on a postcard.

No because 'broke' means being bankrupt and not able to pay bills. The club clearly can. What a responsible or self sufficient business doesnt do is earn a pound and spend a pound and a penny, especially when the financial shit is hitting the fan.

 

Id have thought even you would understand if Liverpool are finding it difficult to get a sleeve sponsor in the current climate, it's odds on because businesses see handing money to a football club right now isnt the best use of it's money rather than down to poor performance by the commercial department.

 

You see a bogeyman at every corner. Man, you're even now suggesting Swiss Rambler doesnt know what he's talking about. Yeah, whatever. Swiss Rambler is another Henry shill because Henry 'follows' him on twitter? You couldnt make the paranoia up.

 

You keep going on about the club's income. The club has expenditure. £42m pre tax sounds a lot of profit. It still wouldnt buy Werner never mind pay him 200 grand a week.

 

What 'cash' are you talking about where's it gone? What dont you get about, say, 500m in, 458m out equals 42m? For one season? Last season, I'll lay odds we didnt make £42m profit. How much profit do you think we'll make this season? How about a loss?

 

I'll ask you again see as you keep mentioning Villa outspending us. You be happy with Anfield being sold to the owners to fund player spend? Villa did it to write down debt so they could still buy players. Yes or no will do.

[BeefStroganoff 27]

13 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

No because 'broke' means being bankrupt and not able to pay bills. The club clearly can. What a responsible or self sufficient business doesnt do is earn a pound and spend a pound and a penny, especially when the financial shit is hitting the fan.

 

Id have thought even you would understand if Liverpool are finding it difficult to get a sleeve sponsor in the current climate, it's odds on because businesses see handing money to a football club right now isnt the best use of it's money rather than down to poor performance by the commercial department.

 

You see a bogeyman at every corner. Man, you're even now suggesting Swiss Rambler doesnt know what he's talking about. Yeah, whatever. Swiss Rambler is another Henry shill because Henry 'follows' him on twitter? You couldnt make the paranoia up.

 

You keep going on about the club's income. The club has expenditure. £42m pre tax sounds a lot of profit. It still wouldnt buy Werner never mind pay him 200 grand a week.

 

What 'cash' are you talking about where's it gone? What dont you get about, say, 500m in, 458m out equals 42m? For one season? Last season, I'll lay odds we didnt make £42m profit. How much profit do you think we'll make this season? How about a loss?

 

I'll ask you again see as you keep mentioning Villa outspending us. You be happy with Anfield being sold to the owners to fund player spend? Villa did it to write down debt so they could still buy players. Yes or no will do.

As Womble said accounts can be painted to depict anything they want, thats why the ramble doesn't mean crap to me. And the fact that Henry follows it? Paranoia or not, he doesn't follow hardly anyone on twitter so why the Swiss Ramble? Food for thought.

 

We made nearly 600 million in the last few season from the finishing positions ALONE.

 

CL runners up 75m 

https://www.90min.com/posts/6206580-uefa-reveal-which-clubs-earned-the-most-prize-money-in-the-2017-18-champions-league

CL winners 98.5mil 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/how-much-liverpool-earned-prize-16241807

PL Runners up 150m

PL Winners £175m

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8616659/Liverpool-receive-175m-payout-prize-money-TV-earnings-Premier-League-triumph.html

WCC Winners 4m

ESC Winners 4m

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1219994/Club-World-Cup-final-prize-money-Liverpool-Flamengo-how-much-win-earn

CL last 16 71m 

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2020/08/cost-of-early-champions-league-exit-revealed-but-reds-still-bank-over-70m/

 

So according to my maths thats £577.5 from prize winning that would under normal circumstances not be there.

 

Is this wrong? Because according to those articles thats what we have earned.

 

And thats before i add in partnerships, kit deals, player sales etc. So we have had far more money coming in than going out. We have spent 23 million in four windows. Thats two years.