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Neil G

Go fuck yourselves FSG

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3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

But surely you wait for the sales to drop first, you don't question someone when he is on top of his game results wise and then replace him? 

The analogy is getting strained here. Who's on the top of their game that we want to replace? 

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24 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Imagine having some of you as bosses doing the evaluation, after winning the league /  becoming to best in my field.

 

"Yes, that is all very well, but do you have the sustainability to keep being tho top salesman for us" etc.

Have you ever had a skilled job where you are expected to perform? When you deliver a top piece of work to your company/bosses, you don't just sit back and bask. There is an expectation that comes with it. If you start to fall beyond that level over time you start to suffer the consequences.

 

Its a completely different problem now. Originally it was about improvement, top 6 then top four. Then it was runners up in finals, now its winners. Next expectation i to stay there and do it consistently like successful teams do. Its a whole new ballgame.

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15 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Two quick points.

We/They came within a gnats ass of winning the league without Klopp.

No one is going to pay 1.5 billion for the club.

But we didn't win it though. And why didn't we win it? Because the squad was paper thin and lacked investment.

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7 minutes ago, Horus said:

The analogy is getting strained here. Who's on the top of their game that we want to replace? 

The owners, as in can they take as any further. Maybe thy can, maybe they can't. But overall, the club has been moving forward every year except 14/15 since they arrived as a considerable improvement on the previous regimes. They largely have not been repeating same mistakes. We have just won the league with arguably the best team the club has ever had, CL last year etc. They have indirectly or directly created the system which produced that, appointed the right people and so on. Maybe they have just lucked out into it, I don't know, I doubt it but it's possible. However, I don't see much evidence at the moment that they are taking the club backwards or standing in the was of its success. 

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1 minute ago, SasaS said:

The owners, as in can they take as any further. Maybe thy can, maybe they can't. But overall, the club has been moving forward every year except 14/15 since they arrived as a considerable improvement on the previous regimes. They largely have not been repeating same mistakes. We have just won the league with arguably the best team the club has ever had, CL last year etc. They have indirectly or directly created the system which produced that, appointed the right people and so on. Maybe they have just lucked out into it, I don't know, I doubt it but it's possible. However, I don't see much evidence at the moment that they are taking the club backwards or standing in the was of its success. 

Don't agree.

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11 minutes ago, SasaS said:

The owners, as in can they take as any further. Maybe thy can, maybe they can't. But overall, the club has been moving forward every year except 14/15 since they arrived as a considerable improvement on the previous regimes. They largely have not been repeating same mistakes. We have just won the league with arguably the best team the club has ever had, CL last year etc. They have indirectly or directly created the system which produced that, appointed the right people and so on. Maybe they have just lucked out into it, I don't know, I doubt it but it's possible. However, I don't see much evidence at the moment that they are taking the club backwards or standing in the was of its success. 

Well obviously while we're League champions it's pretty easy to say there's no evidence that they take us backwards. But we're here to discuss if we think they're credible sporting owners, not just money men. It flies in the face of pretty much every sporting situation where you don't try to improve while you're ahead. I watched that "30 year wait" thing on the BBC last night and it was even mentioned in their our secret to success over the years was strengthening while in front. So this idea we won't do it, seems pretty reasonable to question. It also seems pretty reasonable to question where this virtuous circle is they promised us and the idea as Tom Werner said we can compete financially with anyone. If we're searching down the sofa for change after the last 3 season, what the fuck is going to happen if we have a couple of ordinary seasons and slip into the uefa cup places. People might think that's fanciful, but as was shown with klopp's Dortmund, things can go to shit. 

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1 minute ago, SasaS said:

The owners, as in can they take as any further. Maybe thy can, maybe they can't. But overall, the club has been moving forward every year except 14/15 since they arrived as a considerable improvement on the previous regimes. They largely have not been repeating same mistakes. We have just won the league with arguably the best team the club has ever had, CL last year etc. They have indirectly or directly created the system which produced that, appointed the right people and so on. Maybe they have just lucked out into it, I don't know, I doubt it but it's possible. However, I don't see much evidence at the moment that they are taking the club backwards or standing in the was of its success. 

It's built on sand. Klopp leaves it and falls to pieces. Directly or indirectly? Want to hedge a bit more? 

 

So now the measure of success is being better than 2 guys that nearly buried us? 

 

Rafa's net spend under H&G was around 40m. Klopps is around £70m. H&G win the league in 09 are they getting the praise like FSG?

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8 minutes ago, Horus said:

It's built on sand. Klopp leaves it and falls to pieces. Directly or indirectly? Want to hedge a bit more? 

 

So now the measure of success is being better than 2 guys that nearly buried us? 

 

Rafa's net spend under H&G was around 40m. Klopps is around £70m. H&G win the league in 09 are they getting the praise like FSG?

We won't be a dominant force once Klopp leaves unless Stevie G is the next great manager. That's obvious, but that it will fall to pieces is pure doomer speak. We can be extremely competent, as we have been in recent years, and come close to winning the league in odd seasons with the way FSG do things but obviously it's not possible to compete with teams like City and Chelsea in the long term. Short term, yes. Not long term. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Don't agree.

I'm the same on that point. What Paisley achieved in 9 years is surely our greatest side. This side has been unbelievable but 6 titles and 3 european cups has to still be the pinnacle of Liverpool surely. That doesn't diminish this side at all.

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6 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

We won't be a dominant force once Klopp leaves unless Stevie G is the next great manager. That's obvious, but that it will fall to pieces is pure doomer speak. We can be extremely competent, as we have been in recent years, and come close to winning the league in odd seasons with the way FSG do things but obviously it's not possible to compete with teams like City and Chelsea in the long term. Short term, yes. Not long term. 

I agree, so let me ask you if you believe we are maximising one of these rare short windows into challenging that we'll have.

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3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Well obviously while we're League champions it's pretty easy to say there's no evidence that they take us backwards. But we're here to discuss if we think they're credible sporting owners, not just money men. It flies in the face of pretty much every sporting situation where you don't try to improve while you're ahead. I watched that "30 year wait" thing on the BBC last night and it was even mentioned in their our secret to success over the years was strengthening while in front. So this idea we won't do it, seems pretty reasonable to question. It also seems pretty reasonable to question where this virtuous circle is they promised us and the idea as Tom Werner said we can compete financially with anyone. If we're searching down the sofa for change after the last 3 season, what the fuck is going to happen if we have a couple of ordinary seasons and slip into the uefa cup places. People might think that's fanciful, but as was shown with klopp's Dortmund, things can go to shit. 

Yes they can. But when you win the league after 30 years after having 2 incredible seasons in the PL and two and a half in the CL, this earns you some leeway with me. And closely watching what they were doing over the past years, I am inclined to think they may be credible sporting owners.

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5 minutes ago, Horus said:

I agree, so let me ask you if you believe we are maximising one of these rare short windows into challenging that we'l have.

Klopp is here till 2024. What we do this summer, in one window, doesn't totally dictate how successful we'll be in the future. I'd like us to sign Thiago, I've said it a million times, but if we don't will we crumble to pieces? Probably not. We'll still be competing for the big prizes this season. 

 

The long game is for Klopp to rebuild the team successfully when Salah, Mane, van Dijk, become old and less good. If we do that well, that's what will determine how good we'll be in the next 5-10 years. 

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3 minutes ago, Horus said:

It's built on sand. Klopp leaves it and falls to pieces. Directly or indirectly? Want to hedge a bit more? 

 

So now the measure of success is being better than 2 guys that nearly buried us? 

 

Rafa's net spend under H&G was around 40m. Klopps is around £70m. H&G win the league in 09 are they getting the praise like FSG?

 

That's an insane stat. And there are those on here who think there is no equivalence.

 

FSG have a very different investment model (one which is not reliant upon leveraging) but is still incredibly high risk from a footballing sense. H&G were usurped by the credit crunch...FSG are being usurped by dried up revenue streams. Ironically, credit is cheaper now than it ever has been before and all of the people who seem to shit themselves when they hear the word 'debt' are pretty naive to how smart leveraging can be in certain situations.

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Just now, 3 Stacks said:

Klopp is here till 2024. What we do this summer, in one window, doesn't totally dictate how successful we'll be in the future. I'd like us to sign Thiago, I've said it a million times, but if we don't will we crumble to pieces? Probably not.

 

The long game is for Klopp to rebuild the team successfully when Salah, Mane, van Dijk, become old and less good. If we do that well, that's what will determine how good we'll be in the next 5-10 years. 

It's not just this one window though. What happened last summer? We're all old enough to remember Arsenal enjoying similar success as they stopped buying players, and look how long it's taken them to get back approaching a strategy.

 

I'm sure their fans were just as relaxed as most of our fan base, as they had teir est manager of all time in post.

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4 minutes ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

 

That's an insane stat. And there are those on here who think there is no equivalence.

 

FSG have a very different investment model (one which is not reliant upon leveraging) but is still incredibly high risk from a footballing sense. H&G were usurped by the credit crunch...FSG are being usurped by dried up revenue streams. Ironically, credit is cheaper now than it ever has been before and all of the people who seem to shit themselves when they hear the word 'debt' are pretty naive to how smart leveraging can be in certain situations.

I will cage on those figures, as I took them from anfield online.

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49 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Two quick points.

We/They came within a gnats ass of winning the league without Klopp.

No one is going to pay 1.5 billion for the club.

 

  1. Ah yes, we just had the best player in the world, and we didn't, because once again our squad was shite. This was also when you could win the league with sub-90 points, not happening anytime soon.
  2. Yeah, probably only somebody we wouldn't want to own us. Doesn't matter though, that's what the club is worth, and that's what their worth is inflated by. If you don't think that doesn't help fill their pockets in other ways then I'd have to strongly disagree.

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9 minutes ago, Horus said:

I will cage on those figures, as I took them from anfield online.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen something similar, that its around 18m per season. That only reads more ridiculous when you take into account the amount of inflation that has occurred in transfer fees since that time.

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3 minutes ago, 1892-LFCWasBorn said:

So now it's the wage bill? This shit is doing my fucking head in.

 

All bollocks i'm afraid and as usual its Jurgen who is thrust in front of the cameras to answer these questions. Lowest of the low.

 

I guess we arnt as well run as we wax lyrical about as by the sounds of it we would have gone into administration this summer if not for winning the league.

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7 minutes ago, Horus said:

It's not just this one window though. What happened last summer? We're all old enough to remember Arsenal enjoying similar success as they stopped buying players, and look how long it's taken them to get back approaching a strategy.

 

I'm sure their fans were just as relaxed as most of our fan base, as they had teir est manager of all time in post.

I mean, we clearly didn't really need to buy last summer, did we. I think the whole strengthen when you're on top thing is the type of thing that fans parrot and repeat over and over like it's such an obvious and easy thing to do. We have loads of established and top players already, it's not easy to add more great players to that mix while keeping a coherent squad and without needing to sell. 

 

Werner seemingly would have been a nice succession plan to Salah and Mane and he would have had time to grow into that role, which would have been an ideal situation. It didn't work out because of the pandemic, what can you do. That's not faulty planning, it's just bad luck. 

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1 minute ago, BeefStroganoff said:

All bollocks i'm afraid and as usual its Jurgen who is thrust in front of the cameras to answer these questions. Lowest of the low.

 

I guess we arnt as well run as we wax lyrical about as by the sounds of it we would have gone into administration this summer if not for winning the league.

If we had huge holes in the squad or if we were shite, we'd be spending.

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The model fits both FSG and Klopp style.

We have bought very well over the years (when needed) and thanks to Klopp development focus we have seen players come through the academy ranks and play for the first team. Investment is not just buying players but also investing in the infrastructure. The training grounds, Anfield and the academy have all improved under FSG.

Our fans are feeling a bit left behind as they see other teams buy known names whilst we are seemingly standing still (understandably so), but that does not paint the full picture. We don't need another Andy Carroll fiasco so I completely understand the reasoning for not buying every player in sight that may be good for us.

I actually trust Klopp more so than FSG but I cannot ignore the fact that we are where we are because of FSG and Klopp working together.

 

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Just now, 3 Stacks said:

If we had huge holes in the squad or if we were shite, we'd be spending.

Thats not true is it mate? We can't just have a boss 11 and thats it. Fucking frustrating this is, all the goodwill of the win is slowly being eroded.

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On 29/08/2020 at 20:22, Einch said:

Operating costs are north of £500M per season. Revenue is down versus last year. That’s why we are skint.

I don't buy that we're skint. We've been making a lot of money these passed few seasons with not much going out outside of general outgoings (meaning we've not been investing in the squad) whilst still making a profit. There's definitely some 'keeping your powder dry' (or spend-shyness, if you prefer)  going on. I've supported - I think rightly, given the results - the approach the owners have taken but I'm questioning the wisdom of not adding to a winning side. Now's the time when an on-field investment is most likely to do more to raise the value of the club. That said, I'm not a billionaire businessman. They are though, and we've just come from winning a load of stuff. So it buys a little trust from me, but I still don't buy that we are skint. I think it's more an attempt at frugality than anything.

 

As for those banging on about yachts (without tongue-in-cheek) are daft. These people are billionaires and were prior to investing in LFC. They can well afford a yacht without pilfering the club's profits. 

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