Go fuck yourselves FSG

[HBenn]

2 hours ago, aRdja said:

So now he’s a defensive midfielder who’s able to play any of the three midfield positions? Who is this mythical player? Didn’t you say earlier you wanted a defensive midfielder in because it’d allow us to fit a more attacking midfielder in, like Harvey Elliott in or is that not the plan anymore? Who would you drop out?
 

Why would you want to move Thiago from his best position? He’s a CM, why would you his take defensive responsibilities away, as he’s quite clearly more than capable at it; Bayern literally won everything with him playing in a two man midfield behind Thomas Muller and Lewandowski, and he won MOTM in the CL final.
 

There’s very little point in us continuing to discuss the Spurs game. You’re never going to be able to convince me that what we needed to win that game was a defensive midfielder. It was pretty obvious what we needed to do was to score the first goal, then they would’ve had to throw their game plan out of the window. The reason the set up shop like that was they knew if we went toe to toe with us we would’ve destroyed them. 

I said we needed an athletic, strong, quick midfielder to close the gaps in midfield because anyone can see that is what our midfield needs. I am pretty sure that is what Tchouameni is and the type of player we continue to be linked with. So I think the people in recruitment also see it as an issue.

 

If we are only signing one and they are top top quality you would hope they can play more than one position if needed because if fit you want to play them with our two best midfielders Thiago and Fabinho but also allow us to play an attacking midfielder when Thiago misses a run of games.

 

Clearly though in your response you will conveniently forget that Thiago will continue to miss a significant number of games, acting as though he will be fit for 38 games.

 

Spurs tactics through the midfield were key to us not taking the lead in the first place and if you really think they would have changed them had we taken the lead then I would have to question your understanding of football.  

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, HBenn said:

acting as though he will be fit for 38 games.

 

He played 39 last year.

[HBenn]

44 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

He played 39 last year.

I was talking about the league. 

 

Even then 39 of 63 is not great. It cost us in the league most though.

[3 Stacks]

6 hours ago, aRdja said:

He looked really average going forward from his YouTube videos. @3 Stacks who watched Ligue 1 confirmed he’s not great offensively if I recall correctly. Looks to me like he’d been bought as a rotation option for Fabinho, to eventually replace him in a few years time. 

Nah, mate. Tchouameni was one of the best midfielders on the market. 

 

My point about him was always that I didn't really get the fit for us, but at his price, he wouldn't have been anybody's backup and we clearly had a plan for him. We would've figured out a way to get him on the pitch with our other top players and made it work.

[A_S]

Learning on the go, these fellas. Learning well too, it would seem. 

[coachpotato]

All this to-ing and fro-ing about how our midfield should set up is all well and good, but I believe it’ll all come down to how we do against the other top teams, and City in particular.

If we take more points off those teams than they do us, we’ll likely win the league and without knowing the specific facts of our games in previous seasons, I suspect the stats would bear that out.

To do that could mean setting up the midfield, defence and attack in different ways, there’s likely not one setup that’ll work for all games.

[aRdja]

8 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Yeah, that's how it works. 

 

Nevermind. Yeah, we wanted him for backup to Fabinho. You got it.

It would’ve been a similar purchase to Konate. Matip started the season as first choice, but Ibou’s form at the end of the season made him undroppable. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, aRdja said:

It would’ve been a similar purchase to Konate. Matip started the season as first choice m, but Ibou’s form at the end of the season made him undroppable. 

Ok

 

[aRdja]

6 hours ago, HBenn said:

I said we needed an athletic, strong, quick midfielder to close the gaps in midfield because anyone can see that is what our midfield needs. I am pretty sure that is what Tchouameni is and the type of player we continue to be linked with. So I think the people in recruitment also see it as an issue.

 

If we are only signing one and they are top top quality you would hope they can play more than one position if needed because if fit you want to play them with our two best midfielders Thiago and Fabinho but also allow us to play an attacking midfielder when Thiago misses a run of games.

 

Clearly though in your response you will conveniently forget that Thiago will continue to miss a significant number of games, acting as though he will be fit for 38 games.

 

Spurs tactics through the midfield were key to us not taking the lead in the first place and if you really think they would have changed them had we taken the lead then I would have to question your understanding of football.  

You did say a defensive midfielder, and. I countered that if we were to bring a midfielder, I want one with more creativity and goal threat to help bridge the 25 goal (from midfield) deficit against our main rival for the title, Man City. The team who incidentally don’t play with an athletic strong and quick defensive midfielder, as Rodri is about as quick as me, and the other two centre mids are basically AMs as LFD pointed out. Playing two DMs along with Thiago also as a CM is overkill. Fabinho is one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and Thiago is more than capable defensively, as he’s proven with us last season and with Bayern. Hendo played some of his best games last season as a DM also so we’re sorted for back-up. 

 

Spurs tactic was simply sitting back with seven players behind the ball and launch counters attacking the space behind Trent and Robbo. Has we scored a goal they would’ve had to push up further up the pitch to salvage the points they needed to qualify for the CL.

[TD_LFC]

We had 4 attackers from the 65th minute, quite why you think adding an attacking midfielder and leaving Fabinho to try and quell the counter attacking of Spurs on his own was the way to go is anyone's guess.

[aRdja]

12 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

We had 4 attackers from the 65th minute, quite why you think adding an attacking midfielder and leaving Fabinho to try and quell the counter attacking of Spurs on his own was the way to go is anyone's guess.

I’d have started with a more attacking midfielder in place of Hendo. Someone like a Thomas Muller or De Bruyne. The setup from minute 65 is more inline with my thinking, don’t think we conceded after that. 

[HBenn]

11 minutes ago, aRdja said:

You did say a defensive midfielder, and. I countered that if we were to bring a midfielder, I want one with more creativity and goal threat to help bridge the 25 goal (from midfield) deficit against our main rival for the title, Man City. The team who incidentally don’t play with an athletic strong and quick defensive midfielder, as Rodri is about as quick as me, and the other two centre mids are basically AMs as LFD pointed out. Playing two DMs along with Thiago also as a CM is overkill. Fabinho is one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and Thiago is more than capable defensively, as he’s proven with us last season and with Bayern. Hendo played some of his best games last season as a DM also so we’re sorted for back-up. 

 

Spurs tactic was simply sitting back with seven players behind the ball and launch counters attacking the space behind Trent and Robbo. Has we scored a goal they would’ve had to push up further up the pitch to salvage the points they needed to qualify for the CL.

The additional goals from midfield didn't make the difference, the draws from winning positions made the difference. Had we controlled the midfield that wouldn't have happened. 

You really are clueless if you think their tactic was  as simple as 'just to sit back'. Conte is so much cleverer than that. He would have been patient with the tactic especially as it caused us a number of issues.

To close this out though, I guess you are right. Had we signed Tchouameni, who in no way bares an resemblance to a defensive midfielder, for £70m I am sure the plan would be for him to not play alongside Thiago and Fabinho when they were all fit. Instead he would sit on the bench and cover Fabinho when he was injured. Because we are in the habit of spending that level of money for them to sit on the bench.

Of course he wouldn't ever need to come on for Thiago because he doesn't miss games does he? (You can choose to swerve that question if you like).

[aRdja]

2 hours ago, HBenn said:

Had we signed Tchouameni, who in no way bares an resemblance to a defensive midfielder, for £70m I am sure the plan would be for him to not play alongside Thiago and Fabinho when they were all fit. Instead he would sit on the bench and cover Fabinho when he was injured.

3 hours ago, aRdja said:

It would’ve been a similar purchase to Konate. Matip started the season as first choice, but Ibou’s form at the end of the season made him undroppable. 

2 hours ago, HBenn said:

The additional goals from midfield didn't make the difference, the draws from winning positions made the difference. Had we controlled the midfield that wouldn't have happened. 

Hmmm not convinced this is right. We likely had one of the best win % after we’ve taken the lead in world football last year. We never took the lead against Spurs, Leicester, City and West Ham in the second half of last season. On the other hand 25 additional goals certainly would’ve made a difference, even half that.

2 hours ago, HBenn said:

Of course he wouldn't ever need to come on for Thiago because he doesn't miss games does he? (You can choose to swerve that question if you like).

2 hours ago, aRdja said:

Hendo played some of his best games last season as a DM also so we’re sorted for back-up. 

 

 

[HBenn]

5 hours ago, aRdja said:

Hmmm not convinced this is right. We likely had one of the best win % after we’ve taken the lead in world football last year. We never took the lead against Spurs, Leicester, City and West Ham in the second half of last season. On the other hand 25 additional goals certainly would’ve made a difference, even half that.

 

We took 2-0 leads against Chelsea and Brighton. We took the lead against Spurs, Brentford and Man City. How many of those games was Thiago playing in and Hendo deputising?

I thinking that played a bigger role than this 25 goals from midfield.

Klopp has never looked from loads of goals from our 3 mids and could have played more attacking midfield players if he wanted 

[Jose Jones]

We should just sell all our team, then buy Man City’s team and our midfielders would then score 25 more goals. Easy.

[aRdja]

3 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

We should just sell all our team, then buy Man City’s team and our midfielders would then score 25 more goals. Easy.

I’d take one.

[TD_LFC]

13 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I’d take one.

You seem to be struggling to differentiate between what you'd like and how that applies to the reality of how the team plays.

 

As Klopp said, buying a goal scoring midfielder doesn't translate to goals being scored because of the system in place.

 

You can point to the more 'attacking' midfielder in our system to counter that but the reality is the job of our 'attacking' (in reality a better description would be advanced) midfielder, Henderson or Elliot on the right of the three usually, is to create the overload and occupy players to create space for Trent and Salah.

 

Maybe it'll be the next big tactical tweak next season but for now we can only judge on what our system is not what it might be.

[aRdja]

4 hours ago, HBenn said:

We took 2-0 leads against Chelsea and Brighton. We took the lead against Spurs, Brentford and Man City. How many of those games was Thiago playing in and Hendo deputising?

I thinking that played a bigger role than this 25 goals from midfield.

Klopp has never looked from loads of goals from our 3 mids and could have played more attacking midfield players if he wanted 

Add De Bruyne or peak Thomas Muller and play him in front of Thiago and Fabinho and we would’ve won the quadruple. We already have one of the best defensive midfielders in the world in Fabinho and he’s quicker and more athletic than City’s defensive midfielder, Rodri. Last time I checked they they’re not having issues winning league titles. 

[Scott_M]

Ultimately, points are bing raised on performances and results from 2021. 

Our form in 2022 has been great, we couldn’t have done much (any) more. 

5 subs next season gives us more options to rotate and you’d hope Elliott & Jones both improve next season. It’s probably unlikely we’ll be in both domestic cup finals again, so the squad should be fresher. 

 

I’d like another midfielder, it doesn’t seem like players we want are available. We’re not shopping in the same super market as we have been in previous years. Before, there was likely a multiple of players who could do a job for us and we’d likely not get 1st or 2nd choice.
 

Now the amount of players who can truly improve us is small, so much so that we’re only bothered in signing 1st choice or nothing / waiting. 

[TD_LFC]

3 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Add De Bruyne or peak Thomas Muller and play him in front of Thiago and Fabinho and we would’ve won the quadruple. We already have one of the best defensive midfielders in the world in Fabinho and he’s quicker and more athletic than City’s defensive midfielder, Rodri. Last time I checked they they’re not having issues winning league titles. 

Cancelo and Walker are quick and athletic.

[aRdja]

7 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

You seem to be struggling to differentiate between what you'd like and how that applies to the reality of how the team plays.

 

As Klopp said, buying a goal scoring midfielder doesn't translate to goals being scored because of the system in place.

 

You can point to the more 'attacking' midfielder in our system to counter that but the reality is the job of our 'attacking' (in reality a better description would be advanced) midfielder, Henderson or Elliot on the right of the three usually, is to create the overload and occupy players to create space for Trent and Salah.

 

Maybe it'll be the next big tactical tweak next season but for now we can only judge on what our system is not what it might be.

Klopp is not as wedded to the system as you think. He makes tweaks every season. He started off with 4-2-3-1, then he settled into 4-3-3, in 18/19 he experimented with 4-2-3-1 again with Salah as a central striker and Shaq on the right. Last season Trent started tucking in to allow Hendo or Salah to go wide and the other in the box.

[TD_LFC]

Just now, aRdja said:

Klopp is not as wedded to the system as you think. He makes tweaks every season. He started off with 4-2-3-1, then he settled into 4-3-3, in 18/19 he experimented with 4-2-3-1 again with Salah as a central striker and Shaq on the right. Last season Trent started tucking in to allow Hendo or Salah to go wide and the other in the box.

Good job you corrected me on the tactical tweaks we make season to season, I should have mentioned them in the post you quoted.....

[aRdja]

18 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Good job you corrected me on the tactical tweaks we make season to season, I should have mentioned them in the post you quoted.....

Klopp has played with an AM in the past over here and at Dortmund, and Hendo’s role last season morphed into something more attacking than previous season, yeah I don’t see Klopp having issues making tweaks to accommodate a more attacking centre midfielder. 

[s(k)aturation]

15 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

Ultimately, points are bing raised on performances and results from 2021. 

Our form in 2022 has been great, we couldn’t have done much (any) more. 

5 subs next season gives us more options to rotate and you’d hope Elliott & Jones both improve next season. It’s probably unlikely we’ll be in both domestic cup finals again, so the squad should be fresher. 

 

I’d like another midfielder, it doesn’t seem like players we want are available. We’re not shopping in the same super market as we have been in previous years. Before, there was likely a multiple of players who could do a job for us and we’d likely not get 1st or 2nd choice.
 

Now the amount of players who can truly improve us is small, so much so that we’re only bothered in signing 1st choice or nothing / waiting. 

 

We, relatively speaking, cruised to the European Cup Final last term.

 

It won't be as easy as that this year, I don't think.

 

And yep, the domestic cups are out of our system.

 

I'm so hoping we've got another League title in us.  Coming up.

 

 

 

 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Ardja never uses Sugar Daddy on FM and his staff after a few seasons are Lovren, Traore and Bamford. I’m only surprised he hasn’t had genuine offers from the Prem.