Go fuck yourselves FSG

[dockers_strike]

14 minutes ago, Moctezuma said:

I find a lot of the discussion on this thread interesting because its basically an outgrowth of the ridiculous situation that City and Chelsea have created in the league. Their spending not only has warped the market, but also acts as a colossal competitive advantage that means that virtually every single decision other teams need to make regarding transfers and contract renewals needs to be almost 100% correct all of the time, for any given team to be able to compete.

 

Looking through Liverpool's current squad the following could be classed as errors from significant to minor

 

Buying Naby Keita

As mentioned in the other thread the total outlay of circa £90 million for a player who brings very little to the party hasn't been great. When he was bought at the time though he was viewed as one of the most exciting young players in Europe and no doubt Liverpool had a good understanding of how the player would integrate into the side/settle in from their contacts in Germany. Perhaps this shows that we shouldn't spend big on players who have suffered recent significant injuries, but I'm not sure his drop off in form/injury record/difficulty in integrating could have been foreseen.

 

 

Not extending Gini Winjaldum's contract circa 2018/19 to run for another year/couple of years after the summer of 2021

This probably could have been done at the time, but Gini's form in away games was often being criticised and there was a lot of talk emanating from the clubs outriders in the media about an expected physical drop off. So I'm assuming there was some rationale for holding off doing this? Perhaps his agent was looking for a giant paypay? It didn't particularly seem like he wanted to leave last year.

 

 

Extending Divock Origi's contract post the 2019 champions league final

It's understandable why this occurred, firstly Divock had contributed some extremely important goals to the team in that season and second was the notion of protecting his value.  I think people would have been fairly annoyed had he been sold for a reduced amount later on year or so down the line. 

 

However Divock's contract seems to be a major stumbling block for the club in being able to afford another attacker who will contribute more effectively (though as with every transfer there is a degree of risk with this). The lad is still committed so you can't fault him for his endeavor and effort, part of his issue stems from being played out of position.

 

 

Not buying a forward aged between 21/24 in the 2021 summer window

This ties into the Divock situation, but from a squad management perspective we should have tried to bring in another lad in this age category to get bedded in and integrated with the team. Supposedly financially Liverpool don't have the capacity to do this due to the impact of Covid and being unable to shift players on the fringes of the first team squad (Origi and Minamino), I think this may catch-up with us though given the age of the front 3, it puts a lot more pressure on their replacements in the future to hit the ground running rather than being eased in.

 

This could be applied to the midfield as well but the aim is clearly to get Elliott to do this over the medium term, hopefully the lad recovers well from his injury.

 

 

Buying Loris Karius

Again I'm not sure if you can criticise the club too much on this he was brought in for a relatively small transfer fee and played to a decent level at first and was considered one of the best goalkeepers in Germany when we bought him. The calamities in the Champions League final basically ended his career at Liverpool with manager losing trust. The length of contract could be questioned but 5 years is fairly standard when signing promising young players. It has also been difficult to shift him mainly because other clubs can see he is mentally burnt out.

 

 

Extending Adrian's contract in the summer

I'm assuming this was done for squad harmony reasons and that they thought they would be able to get Karius off the books quicker (a bit daft that we are currently paying for 4 first team goalkeepers), however it did eat up one of our foreign player slots which was posited as one for the reasons why we couldn't make any move in the summer. I would assume his wages aren't astronomical from a football industry point of view, but we could have gotten a fairly competent professional home-grown qualifying goalkeeper with reasonable distribution you would have thought, though the fact I can't pull one out of my brain straight away suggests that is easier said than done.

 

 

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain's contract

The initial fee for Chamberlain was a high, but he has scored some important goals for Liverpool and has had a terrible injury to overcome. I think the question here is whether he will be able to regain some form during this season, we will certainly need him to try and stay fit and improve. If we are going to extend his contract, it does make me wonder though why we offered a player with a long term injury record a 5 year deal when he signed, perhaps this is something the club need to look at in general.

 

 

Not securing Mo Salah's contract yet

Have put this quite low down the list as I would assume this is ongoing and they have basically had to sort out everyone else's contract before getting Mo's done due to the expected wage inflation it would cause. You would hope they would be able to get his and Mane's contract sorted within this year.

 

 

Buying Taki Minamino

I think with Taki much like the Karius deal he was seen as a fairly cheap player who could be brought in and be effective for us. The fact he had a great game against us for Salzburg at Anfield helped, a significant chunk of the fanbase were on board with buying him despite his diminutive frame (by premier league standards). I think there was a view to perhaps flipping him which got kyboshed with the advent of Covid and reduction of cash in the game for the smaller and medium sized clubs. 

 

 

Buying Ben Davies

Really strange transfer this, again I think an attempt at flipping? Will see how he gets on over the next while but can't help, but think it's been unnecessary expenditure.

 

 

Extending Sheji Ojo's contract

I think this was done to protect his value, but I'm not sure if it has really done the player himself any favours

 

Over-reliance on Alexander Arnold at Right fullback

To be fair with this he is one of the best players in the world in his position and finding someone who is happy to sit on the bench isn't easy. Also Klopp really values opportunities for the youth team to come through and fullback seems to be an easier position in which this transition can be done. Milner and Gomez can cover if absolutely required.

 

In the grand scheme of things this really doesn't feel like that long a list for a sport in which squad management is notoriously difficult to get right. The fact we have to get nearly everything correct all of the time to even have a chance of winning the league is patently ridiculous. A lot of this is reliant on Klopp staying in post though.

 

 

Very few of the above are outright terrible and most have not come off due to a combination of factors. As a club we seem to have moved on from some of the patently dreadful transfers/contract decisions made either under Hicks and Gillet or during FSG's early years.

 

However obviously this is contemporaneous list and FSG made a huge number of mistakes last year which understandably colours people's view a selection of which:

• The super league push
• The center back situation in the summer
• The lack of activity in recruiting a center back last year in the run up to the January window
• Attempt to furlough/lay off staff

A good reasoned post. Id add we did look nailed on to sign Werner until fwank 'promised' him a title challenge and waved a bigger wedge under his nose than we could muster. Would Werner be playing as poorly and looking so bereft of confidence as he does now under Klopp? Who knows?

 

We did buy Jota with a down payment of about £4m if reports are to be believed amounting to £40m+ in total. That hasnt worked out too shabby.

 

Personally, I think it's clear Covid blew the club's plans out of the water. Other clubs would likely have come sniffing around some of the squaddies and maybe even Mo and Sadio.

[TheHowieLama]

@Moctezuma writes for the Athletic. Nice.

[Moctezuma]

5 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

@Moctezuma writes for the Athletic. Nice.

Haha if only, I'd get paid more

[aws]

2 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

Haha if only, I'd get paid more

But think of the sacrifices you'd have to make. 

[TheHowieLama]

Red Sox against the Yankees first game of the wild card tonight.

[Trumo]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

Red Sox against the Yankees first game of the wild card tonight.

 

I presume you mean the first of the two wild card games - the other being Dodgers v Cardinals in the NL. They're just one-off winner-takes-all games.

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, Trumo said:

 

 They're just one-off winner-takes-all games.

Yea, that's all. 

[VladimirIlyich]

On 23/09/2021 at 12:30, TD_LFC said:

What if a manager isn't doing his job?

Which manager? And do you mean 'Not doing his job well?' specifically about Klopp?

[TD_LFC]

Given it was nearly two weeks ago, from memory, my suspicion was that while people are adamant that ownership can take no credit for positive performances I'm almost certain that people will be more than keen to let them share blame if the next manager doesn't get the performances we now know the players are capable of.

 

 

 

 

[aRdja]

https://theathletic.com/2849657/2021/10/02/fsg-and-the-culture-wars-at-liverpool/?source=user_shared_article
 

A decent article on The Athletic on how the club are lowering the price for a pint inside the ground to £2.90, a move that could shut down surrounding pubs.

[VladimirIlyich]

47 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Given it was nearly two weeks ago, from memory, my suspicion was that while people are adamant that ownership can take no credit for positive performances I'm almost certain that people will be more than keen to let them share blame if the next manager doesn't get the performances we now know the players are capable of.

 

 

 

 

How can owners take credit for on field performances? They appoint the manager and sign the cheques. Kudos for appointing a manager who was among the best in the world and allowing him to spend some of the money he earned them.

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

How can owners take credit for on field performances?

They won't, they'll take the blame for bad on field performances though. It's the nature of football.

[dockers_strike]

1 hour ago, aRdja said:

https://theathletic.com/2849657/2021/10/02/fsg-and-the-culture-wars-at-liverpool/?source=user_shared_article
 

A decent article on The Athletic on how the club are lowering the price for a pint inside the ground to £2.90, a move that could shut down surrounding pubs.

Fuck's sake, even when something is being done inside the ground some folk will use it as a stick to beat it. Have you seen how many people pack into the Flattie, the Sandon, The Park, The Arkles and other pubs around Anfield? They are so packed people are drinking outside. Do you think everyone drinking in the pubs has a ticket for the game as well? No pub within walking distance of Anfield is going to shut down because the club is selling Carlsberg in paper cups at £2.90!

 

As far as Im aware, inside the ground, you can only buy Carlsberg? Who drinks that anyway when the pubs have a wider variety of beers on sale?

[Reckoner]

On 23/09/2021 at 16:00, Moctezuma said:

 

 

Over-reliance on Alexander Arnold at Right fullback

To be fair with this he is one of the best players in the world in his position and finding someone who is happy to sit on the bench isn't easy. Also Klopp really values opportunities for the youth team to come through and fullback seems to be an easier position in which this transition can be done. Milner and Gomez can cover if absolutely required.

 

A good post in full but I don’t agree having a world class player is an excuse for not having one single able deputy specialised RB at the whole club. It’s a bit ridiculous to count on Milner or a kid in Williams.

[Beno]

1 hour ago, TD_LFC said:

They won't, they'll take the blame for bad on field performances though. It's the nature of football.

No sane person is going togo the ground and pay 2.90 for a shitty warm can of Carlsberg,having to queue 25 mins for it then drink it on a packed, dank concourse over having a decent pint in a local,albeit packed, pub.

[aRdja]

5 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Fuck's sake, even when something is being done inside the ground some folk will use it as a stick to beat it. Have you seen how many people pack into the Flattie, the Sandon, The Park, The Arkles and other pubs around Anfield? They are so packed people are drinking outside. Do you think everyone drinking in the pubs has a ticket for the game as well? No pub within walking distance of Anfield is going to shut down because the club is selling Carlsberg in paper cups at £2.90!

 

As far as Im aware, inside the ground, you can only buy Carlsberg? Who drinks that anyway when the pubs have a wider variety of beers on sale?

Can’t you buy Guinness?

[3 Stacks]

9 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Red Sox against the Yankees first game of the wild card tonight.

Sox win. ARod just gave credit to Henry and Werner on the broadcast. More competence and overachieving from FSG. The haters are seething. 

[Moctezuma]

9 hours ago, Reckoner said:

A good post in full but I don’t agree having a world class player is an excuse for not having one single able deputy specialised RB at the whole club. It’s a bit ridiculous to count on Milner or a kid in Williams.

Fair point, having a Tsimikas for the right back slot would take a lot of the burden off Trent to constantly be available and playing at a high level. I do think the club sees it as one of the few areas of the pitch where you can ease younger players in.

 

There was a camera shot at the Porto game of the bench, virtually everyone looked happy other than Williams who from his facial expression you could tell was fuming that he hadn't been picked. Hopefully he uses that anger to push on and claim the back up spot as his away from Milner. Klopp may have played him had the City game not been on the horizon and it probably indicates where they see his place in the team, i.e. 4th choice right back behind Milner and Gomez in the big games. More suited currently to league cup run outs and lower intensity premier league matches.

[Trumo]

3 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Sox win. ARod just gave credit to Henry and Werner on the broadcast. More competence and overachieving from FSG. The haters are seething. 

 

I wouldn't go that far. The Red Sox this year are a bit like us last season. A solid start, long-term injuries to key players not being a factor for longer than anyone might have expected, followed by a slump followed by something of a recovery, aided by a few unheralded players when the fans had been clamouring for top level reinforcements before the last trade deadline. Now they're up against the Rays, the strongest side in the AL and last year's World Series runners-up. As for the Yankees, they are the rich and formerly successful behemoth that spends big on players every year yet always comes up short when it really matters.

[VladimirIlyich]

4 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Sox win. ARod just gave credit to Henry and Werner on the broadcast. More competence and overachieving from FSG. The haters are seething. 

Take it to the Rounders thread.

[m0e]

Anyone who thinks Kostas or (and in particular) Robbo can play right back is on heavy, heavy drugs.

 

I want some.

[Reckoner]

1 hour ago, m0e said:

Anyone who thinks Kostas or (and in particular) Robbo can play right back is on heavy, heavy drugs.

 

I want some.

Or Gomez. All these claims to replace Milner at RB sooner, within minutes he was out if position and cost us the three points.

[VladimirIlyich]

2 minutes ago, Reckoner said:

Or Gomez. All these claims to replace Milner at RB sooner, within minutes he was out if position and cost us the three points.

As was Milner for Foden's goal. I have a feeling that RB is going to be a bit of a hot topic this season.

[Reckoner]

19 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

As was Milner for Foden's goal. I have a feeling that RB is going to be a bit of a hot topic this season.

Yeah didn’t think if it like that. I think I’m still seething when I think of that equaliser, ah well.

[RobbieOR]

Milner can play rb against the crap teams but against the best he'll get targeted.