Go fuck yourselves FSG

[aws]

46 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Atletico have been helped massively by the fact that Real and especially Barca have become clown shows over the last couple of years.

We, on the other hand have seen the exact opposite from our biggest rivals.

But we're still competing. 

[Ne Moe Imya]

2 hours ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Id like us to go down that route of identifying the next Salah or Mane in the 30-50 million bracket. (taking inflation into consideration)

[BeefStroganoff]

3 hours ago, No2 said:

Quick glance at Atletico appears they have a net spend closet to zero over the last 3 years. In that time they have sold and replaced the equivalent of Salah, Fabinho and VVD. Thats where we were 4 years ago, say it all you want but you wouldn't tolerate that.

We already do. If not for COVID I'm pretty sure Salah or Mane would have gone last/this summer to fund the next crop.

 

My point about Athletico was not their overall model but how they quickly recognise and act upon up and coming stars which they then sell later for him fees.r

[BeefStroganoff]

1 hour ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

Yep we just need another one.

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

 

My point about Athletico was not their overall model but how they quickly recognise and act upon up and coming stars which they then sell later for him fees.r

Do they do this? I assume you meant big fees, not him fees.

 

Pretty much everyone they have signed I can remember - say last 5 years has been pretty old except for Felix and Lemar they paid 200 million for that pair.

 

They made some a nice wedge on Hernandez but he came up through their academy. They did flip Rodri.

Who else? 

[TheHowieLama]

Probably could include Griezmann, but he played for them for a good while and he cost them like 60 mil.

I remember them selling Costa, then buying him back for double a few years later.

 

Not sure they have ever had a case like Coutinho for instance. Or even Rhiann Brewster.

[BeefStroganoff]

25 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Probably could include Griezmann, but he played for them for a good while and he cost them like 60 mil.

I remember them selling Costa, then buying him back for double a few years later.

 

Not sure they have ever had a case like Coutinho for instance. Or even Rhiann Brewster.

They've had a few

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/atletico-madrid/rekordabgaenge/verein/13

 

De Paul could be the next one.

[No2]

1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

We already do. If not for COVID I'm pretty sure Salah or Mane would have gone last/this summer to fund the next crop.

 

My point about Athletico was not their overall model but how they quickly recognise and act upon up and coming stars which they then sell later for him fees.r

What you're describing there is us selling Salah and buying Sancho. We have moved away form that despite the claims we would have sold buy for Covid.

[TheHowieLama]

23 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

They've had a few

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/atletico-madrid/rekordabgaenge/verein/13

 

De Paul could be the next one.

De Paul is 27 years old - they paid 35 mil for him, you think in a year or two he will go for double?

 

 

Partey came through their youth system.

 

I just looked at the next three below what I had mentioned 

Falcao - paid 36 mil, sold two years later for 38 mil - 

Martinez - paid 31.5 sold 8 months later for 37.8

Aguero - paid 20 sold 5 years later for 36

 

So they pocketed the sum total of Brewsters fee for all three, and only Aguero was younger than 25.

 

That is not really the same as buying Sterling, Ibe and Brewster - all 16/17 years old for a combined 2 mil and selling them for 120 mil is it? 

 

They do have previous for being willing to break the bank on young players - particularly Felix and Griezmann - but I don't see them as a club that regularly buys young talent, develops them and then sells them on for big fees. Do see them as the ultimate sell to buy model though.

 

 

[Razoray]

1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

We already do. If not for COVID I'm pretty sure Salah or Mane would have gone last/this summer to fund the next crop.

 

My point about Athletico was not their overall model but how they quickly recognise and act upon up and coming stars which they then sell later for him fees.r

There is no evidence to show that FSG of Klopp try to sell our best players to finance purchases. They has no interest in selling Suarez until the bite at the world cup and Coutinho downed tools to get a transfer the summer before he moved and they still didn't bite. 

They do try to generate funds from sales but generally it's from fringe or younger players. 

Without covid we would have had £80-120m extra in the for the coffers for the past 2 years. We probably would have sold a few more. This would, in my opinion, meant increased investment in the squad for the past 3 windows. 

I do agree that they could have loaned the club a few pence to cover a forward this summer if one was identified but that has never been their model. It means that things should revert back next summer where we add 40m to a raft of sales - and hopefully bring the age profile down while adding to the quality. 

I still think we will win the league and that this is the best Liverpool squad in the premier league era. 

[aRdja]

Atletico regularly sell their best players FFS. How on earth is their model one we should aspire to?

[3 Stacks]

Beef just picked a club out of a hat. 

[Salou]

Atletico are funded by very high levels of debt and similar to us have had a sell to buy policy, in fact they've been in pretty precarious situations financially and have had to use player trading to balance books once the Wanda money dried up as well as whatever they had going on with Azerbaijan.

 

Atletico get a good rep because they do a very good job of replacing there strikers Torres/Aguero/Falcao etc 

[VladimirIlyich]

17 hours ago, LF:D said:

Go fuck yourselves FSG expanding Anfield - cheeky fuckers.

 

Oh and we're still undefeated.

 

Ignore the tedious is it a fact or opinion bullshit above. 

 

It's fucking clear they have been great for the club, unless you want Hodgson back with Jovanovic, Degan, Poulsen, Konchesky etc.

 

Befuckinghave! 

Being undefeated has nothing to do with FSG,other than Klopp continuing to do his job brilliantly. The argument regarding squad depth will show itself(or hopefully not) around christmas or new year. I happen to think it's ok but now is not yet the time to quote an abundance or lack of.

[TD_LFC]

7 hours ago, Salou said:

Atletico are funded by very high levels of debt and similar to us have had a sell to buy policy, in fact they've been in pretty precarious situations financially and have had to use player trading to balance books once the Wanda money dried up as well as whatever they had going on with Azerbaijan.

 

Atletico get a good rep because they do a very good job of replacing there strikers Torres/Aguero/Falcao etc 

A lot of that investment on players was co-funded by third parties like Doyen Sports who's shady dealings have got them in trouble in the past.

 

https://theblacksea.eu/stories/football-leaks/football-leaks-the-dirty-tricks-of-doyen-sports/

 

"It was a similar story with Colombian striker Radamel Falcao who, also in the summer of 2013, moved from Atlético Madrid to Monaco, a transfer managed by his agent Jorge Mendes. The transfer fee was 43 million Euro, which earned Doyen, with a 33 per cent stake in the player, a profit of 5.3 million Euro. But Lucas had apparently hoped for greater returns from Falcao.

“He went to Monaco that fuck,” he wrote Arif, before insulting the Colombian player’s mother and concluding: “His career is finished. […] He will end up paying taxes in France.”

"

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

3 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Being undefeated has nothing to do with FSG,other than Klopp continuing to do his job brilliantly. The argument regarding squad depth will show itself(or hopefully not) around christmas or new year. I happen to think it's ok but now is not yet the time to quote an abundance or lack of.

He may reply if he can remove is head from his or Henderson’s arse. 

[s(k)aturation]

3 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Being undefeated has nothing to do with FSG,other than Klopp continuing to do his job brilliantly. The argument regarding squad depth will show itself(or hopefully not) around christmas or new year. I happen to think it's ok but now is not yet the time to quote an abundance or lack of.

 

Indeed, before Christmas last year, there were pronouncements that we could win the League by 10 plus points.

 

 

[TD_LFC]

2 hours ago, s(k)aturation said:

 

Indeed, before Christmas last year, there were pronouncements that we could win the League by 10 plus points.

 

 

Because despite being decimated at the back we were still top at Xmas. Then we lost both 6's had to play deeper and deeper which affected the attack etc etc.

[dockers_strike]

Our fans are singing 'The reds have got no money but still we'll win the league!'

 

Should they stop singing that?!

[TD_LFC]

11 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Our fans are singing 'The reds have got no money but still we'll win the league!'

 

Should they stop singing that?!

Against most teams they should, it's similar to the it's coming home chants for England, inwardly it's seen as self depreciating, singing it against Preston is going to seem entitled.

 

Sing it against Chelsea, Utd, City by all means.

[TD_LFC]

6 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Being undefeated has nothing to do with FSG,other than Klopp continuing to do his job brilliantly.

What if a manager isn't doing his job?

[dockers_strike]

6 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Against most teams they should, it's similar to the it's coming home chants for England, inwardly it's seen as self depreciating, singing it against Preston is going to seem entitled.

 

Sing it against Chelsea, Utd, City by all means.

My comments was more a riposte to those who say you shouldnt look ahead and make claims or statements. Yes, there's a bit of counting your chickens and all that but I think some over play the injuries that might happen around Christmas.

 

Injuries are inherent in football so it's how you deal with them. Last season was exceptional as we had a number of key players out long term.

 

Myself, I dont see 'The reds have got no money....' as a jibe against the lesser clubs. Ive no problem with fans singing it in games against teams outside the 'top 6.'

 

We used to sing 'Who the fucking hell are you?' against lesser sides, no one complained about that.

[TD_LFC]

Sorry, I should read things properly.

[s(k)aturation]

42 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Because despite being decimated at the back we were still top at Xmas. Then we lost both 6's had to play deeper and deeper which affected the attack etc etc.

 

Yes, I recall.

 

 

[Moctezuma]

I find a lot of the discussion on this thread interesting because its basically an outgrowth of the ridiculous situation that City and Chelsea have created in the league. Their spending not only has warped the market, but also acts as a colossal competitive advantage that means that virtually every single decision other teams need to make regarding transfers and contract renewals needs to be almost 100% correct all of the time, for any given team to be able to compete.

 

Looking through Liverpool's current squad the following could be classed as errors from significant to minor

 

Buying Naby Keita

As mentioned in the other thread the total outlay of circa £90 million for a player who brings very little to the party hasn't been great. When he was bought at the time though he was viewed as one of the most exciting young players in Europe and no doubt Liverpool had a good understanding of how the player would integrate into the side/settle in from their contacts in Germany. Perhaps this shows that we shouldn't spend big on players who have suffered recent significant injuries, but I'm not sure his drop off in form/injury record/difficulty in integrating could have been foreseen.

 

 

Not extending Gini Winjaldum's contract circa 2018/19 to run for another year/couple of years after the summer of 2021

This probably could have been done at the time, but Gini's form in away games was often being criticised and there was a lot of talk emanating from the clubs outriders in the media about an expected physical drop off. So I'm assuming there was some rationale for holding off doing this? Perhaps his agent was looking for a giant paypay? It didn't particularly seem like he wanted to leave last year.

 

 

Extending Divock Origi's contract post the 2019 champions league final

It's understandable why this occurred, firstly Divock had contributed some extremely important goals to the team in that season and second was the notion of protecting his value.  I think people would have been fairly annoyed had he been sold for a reduced amount later on year or so down the line. 

 

However Divock's contract seems to be a major stumbling block for the club in being able to afford another attacker who will contribute more effectively (though as with every transfer there is a degree of risk with this). The lad is still committed so you can't fault him for his endeavor and effort, part of his issue stems from being played out of position.

 

 

Not buying a forward aged between 21/24 in the 2021 summer window

This ties into the Divock situation, but from a squad management perspective we should have tried to bring in another lad in this age category to get bedded in and integrated with the team. Supposedly financially Liverpool don't have the capacity to do this due to the impact of Covid and being unable to shift players on the fringes of the first team squad (Origi and Minamino), I think this may catch-up with us though given the age of the front 3, it puts a lot more pressure on their replacements in the future to hit the ground running rather than being eased in.

 

This could be applied to the midfield as well but the aim is clearly to get Elliott to do this over the medium term, hopefully the lad recovers well from his injury.

 

 

Buying Loris Karius

Again I'm not sure if you can criticise the club too much on this he was brought in for a relatively small transfer fee and played to a decent level at first and was considered one of the best goalkeepers in Germany when we bought him. The calamities in the Champions League final basically ended his career at Liverpool with manager losing trust. The length of contract could be questioned but 5 years is fairly standard when signing promising young players. It has also been difficult to shift him mainly because other clubs can see he is mentally burnt out.

 

 

Extending Adrian's contract in the summer

I'm assuming this was done for squad harmony reasons and that they thought they would be able to get Karius off the books quicker (a bit daft that we are currently paying for 4 first team goalkeepers), however it did eat up one of our foreign player slots which was posited as one for the reasons why we couldn't make any move in the summer. I would assume his wages aren't astronomical from a football industry point of view, but we could have gotten a fairly competent professional home-grown qualifying goalkeeper with reasonable distribution you would have thought, though the fact I can't pull one out of my brain straight away suggests that is easier said than done.

 

 

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain's contract

The initial fee for Chamberlain was a high, but he has scored some important goals for Liverpool and has had a terrible injury to overcome. I think the question here is whether he will be able to regain some form during this season, we will certainly need him to try and stay fit and improve. If we are going to extend his contract, it does make me wonder though why we offered a player with a long term injury record a 5 year deal when he signed, perhaps this is something the club need to look at in general.

 

 

Not securing Mo Salah's contract yet

Have put this quite low down the list as I would assume this is ongoing and they have basically had to sort out everyone else's contract before getting Mo's done due to the expected wage inflation it would cause. You would hope they would be able to get his and Mane's contract sorted within this year.

 

 

Buying Taki Minamino

I think with Taki much like the Karius deal he was seen as a fairly cheap player who could be brought in and be effective for us. The fact he had a great game against us for Salzburg at Anfield helped, a significant chunk of the fanbase were on board with buying him despite his diminutive frame (by premier league standards). I think there was a view to perhaps flipping him which got kyboshed with the advent of Covid and reduction of cash in the game for the smaller and medium sized clubs. 

 

 

Buying Ben Davies

Really strange transfer this, again I think an attempt at flipping? Will see how he gets on over the next while but can't help, but think it's been unnecessary expenditure.

 

 

Extending Sheji Ojo's contract

I think this was done to protect his value, but I'm not sure if it has really done the player himself any favours

 

Over-reliance on Alexander Arnold at Right fullback

To be fair with this he is one of the best players in the world in his position and finding someone who is happy to sit on the bench isn't easy. Also Klopp really values opportunities for the youth team to come through and fullback seems to be an easier position in which this transition can be done. Milner and Gomez can cover if absolutely required.

 

In the grand scheme of things this really doesn't feel like that long a list for a sport in which squad management is notoriously difficult to get right. The fact we have to get nearly everything correct all of the time to even have a chance of winning the league is patently ridiculous. A lot of this is reliant on Klopp staying in post though.

 

 

Very few of the above are outright terrible and most have not come off due to a combination of factors. As a club we seem to have moved on from some of the patently dreadful transfers/contract decisions made either under Hicks and Gillet or during FSG's early years.

 

However obviously this is contemporaneous list and FSG made a huge number of mistakes last year which understandably colours people's view a selection of which:

• The super league push
• The center back situation in the summer
• The lack of activity in recruiting a center back last year in the run up to the January window
• Attempt to furlough/lay off staff