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Go fuck yourselves FSG


Neil G
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4 hours ago, Numero said:

Okay, fair enough, but what is it about this that has turned you against them? Also, what would you have done if you were an owner, would you have said no and then let the other teams do it by themselves? That’s a genuine question to anyone who wants to answer it. With all the ramifications that come with it, you’d have said no, while others took the spot at the top table? 
 

 

I would have said no, we have a duty to the game, not just to ourselves by creating a monopoly on success without even having to earn it.

 

Some people are acting like this is just a re-brand or something but it’s not, it’s the big players guaranteeing their own success regardless of how they perform. How the fuck can any of us find that acceptable?

 

Put yourself in some other shoes for a minute.

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FSG allowed that shit to come out yesterday on a day we had a game and as a result put Klopp and the players in the firing line for every little scummy shitbag in British football. Meanwhile, they hid away on their fucking yacht and didn’t speak to anyone.

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7 hours ago, Brownie said:

I would have said no, we have a duty to the game, not just to ourselves by creating a monopoly on success without even having to earn it.

 

Some people are acting like this is just a re-brand or something but it’s not, it’s the big players guaranteeing their own success regardless of how they perform. How the fuck can any of us find that acceptable?

 

Put yourself in some other shoes for a minute.

It's fair enough that you would have said no. If you are willing to take all the things that come with it, which I think will basically be accepting the removal of 'top tier club' status, missing out on the best players, having our players cherry-picked by the big clubs like 'Spurs', devaluation of your asset, throwing away billions of pounds, etc., then you're a better man than me. It's noble that you are willing to stick to your morals whilst others are getting bigger and earning money and taking your spot at the top of the table, but I guess I think football more of a filthy business where it is pretty much already a closed shop at the top now. City already didn't earn it, they bought it. It's filthy lucre bullshit from top to bottom. It's just different branding. Sure, people won't be able to get promoted to it, which strikes at the heart of fairness - but it's not like the current teams are going to be relegated any time soon. They've long since been feasting from a different table. If we were talking about football in the 50s or 60s, sure I would probably feel different - but I'm not sure I'd want to miss the boat on this one and then in 20 years just be like Everton watching the big clubs from afar. As for the owners, I think it's wild that anybody would blame them for seeing 11 other top teams creating a super league and then expecting them to say 'nah, we don't like billions, we are willing to devalue our asset and drive the club into irrelevance because it's not fair on others'. I guess we will see how it shakes out. It might well just be a power move. 

 

I dunno... when something is already filthy, I'm inclined to do whatever it takes to stay at the top. Maybe that makes me a bad person. 

 

Edit: Also, I want to commend you for being the only one to answer that question. It'd dead easy to sit and throw shit about every decision, but if you can't say you'd have made a different decision, then it's just noise. 

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5 minutes ago, Anubis said:

FSG allowed that shit to come out yesterday on a day we had a game and as a result put Klopp and the players in the firing line for every little scummy shitbag in British football. Meanwhile, they hid away on their fucking yacht and didn’t speak to anyone.

It was really cunty of the teams not to come out and have a press conference about this. Obviously it involves 11 other clubs so I don't think it's a case of just 'letting' it happen on a day we have a game. I've no issue with it coming out whenever, I have an issue with them all hiding away - and it's clearly a coordinated hiding. There's no reason for that. If they want to sell their product them get on with it. Letting Klopp face questions without proper knowledge is clearly out of line. 

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The actions of the Leeds fans and players is exactly the kind of shit that will push a proportion of our fans to get behind the ESL.

 

Would be hillarious if City and Chelsea walk from the 12 and become the saviours of the Premier League. Can picture their PR machines sticking the blame on others. We're committed to East Manchester bla bla bla.

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2 minutes ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

The actions of the Leeds fans and players is exactly the kind of shit that will push a proportion of our fans to get behind the ESL.

 

Would be hillarious if City and Chelsea walk from the 12 and become the saviours of the Premier League. Can picture their PR machines sticking the blame on others. We're committed to East Manchester bla bla bla.

Two clubs along with a bent FA/PL who caused the League's issues would then be seen as saviours?  You'd have to be simple or Neville to think along those lines.

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1 minute ago, J-V said:

Two clubs along with a bent FA/PL who caused the League's issues would then be seen as saviours?  You'd have to be simple or Neville to think along those lines.

A lot of the media will portray them as that. Other fans who love to stick the boot into us and United will as well.

 

Neville making the Sheikh out to be some kind of Mother Teresa was the only funny thing from last night.

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5 minutes ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

A lot of the media will portray them as that. Other fans who love to stick the boot into us and United will as well.

 

Neville making the Sheikh out to be some kind of Mother Teresa was the only funny thing from last night.

Even more reason to hit them where it hurts.  Fuck them all.

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I see Billy Hogan is banging the sustainability drum in his statement for the reason why they want the club to join the super league. 

 

Which translates to "We want to put fuck all of our own money into the club and extract as much from every single source possible to avoid that"

 

Surprised he didn't use Covid and lack of CL football as further excuses.

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Guest Alex_K

I’m not ostensibly against the idea, but yet again the PR management has been woeful. Feels like they learned nothing from the first time around when this was leaked. As mentioned above, should have had a press conference lined up with the 12 heads of clubs. Letting the employees try and talk this away on TV to a media machine baying for blood was grossly unfair.

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11 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

I don't understand this "success regardless of how they perform" angle.

None of these sides are in any way realistically going to be relegated from their current leagues - what's the difference? The successful teams in the new league will be the ones who win it.

You mean automatic qualification to this new ESL? Our performances this season look to be bad enough to exclude us from next year's CL. This would be it doesn't matter how good or bad we are domestically, we get in the ESL anyway. 

3 hours ago, Doctor Troy said:

I see Billy Hogan is banging the sustainability drum in his statement for the reason why they want the club to join the super league. 

 

Which translates to "We want to put fuck all of our own money into the club and extract as much from every single source possible to avoid that"

 

Surprised he didn't use Covid and lack of CL football as further excuses.

The want every last cent, with the absolute minimal risk. 

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3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

You mean automatic qualification to this new ESL? Our performances this season look to be bad enough to exclude us from next year's CL. This would be it doesn't matter how good or bad we are domestically, we get in the ESL anyway. 

The want every last cent, with the absolute minimal risk. 

I absolutely despise them.

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3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

You mean automatic qualification to this new ESL? Our performances this season look to be bad enough to exclude us from next year's CL. This would be it doesn't matter how good or bad we are domestically, we get in the ESL anyway. 

 

So we don't qualify for the CL - and if we are bad enough in the English league we can get relegated.

As for a "closed" league not being competitive - pretty sure the NFL for instance is very fuckin competitive.

The ESL is a competition for the richest clubs in the world, there is no other way to put it. That is how you "qualify".

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11 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

So we don't qualify for the CL - and if we are bad enough in the English league we can get relegated.

As for a "closed" league not being competitive - pretty sure the NFL for instance is very fuckin competitive.

The ESL is a competition for the richest clubs in the world, there is no other way to put it. That is how you "qualify".

I feel like you're missing the point. Part of the beauty of the sport is its ability to have teams going up and down their respective pyramids. Once you remove that, it destroys a major part of the sporting aspect. This is about qualifying once and then just take the revenues forever. 

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3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I feel like you're missing the point. Part of the beauty of the sport is its ability to have teams going up and down their respective pyramids. Once you remove that, it destroys a major part of the sporting aspect. This is about qualifying once and then just take the revenues forever. 

I understand that - under the current proposal that does not change does it? The only way it does is if the league throws the 6 out of the pram - which I don't believe will be the case.

The new competition has nothing to do with the domestic pyramids. I understand people will assume the domestic leagues will take a back seat but honestly who do you think wins the title in Italy or Spain if this goes through and all the teams continue to compete domestically. When PSG and Bayern eventually join up who wins those leagues?

FFS City has a good run at a quadruple every year. They would be odds on favorites to win the PL if they had to play away games in Antarctica during the week

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Just now, TheHowieLama said:

I understand that - under the current proposal that does not change does it? The only way it does is if the league throws the 6 out of the pram - which I don't believe will be the case.

The new competition has nothing to do with the domestic pyramids. I understand people will assume the domestic leagues will take a back seat but honestly who do you think wins the title in Italy or Spain if this goes through and all the teams continue to compete domestically. When PSG and Bayern eventually join up who wins those leagues?

FFS City has a good run at a quadruple every year. They would be odds on favorites to win the PL if they had to play away games in Antarctica during the week

But European qualification is absolutely part of the pyramid system. If WHU finish 4th this season, it's effectively a promotion. That changes because the English places in this new 20 team competition are locked in - in fact supposedly 15 places (I assume they've kept seats open for PSG, Munich and Dortmund) are locked in and there are only 5 places up for grabs for the teams at the top of their pyramids right across Europe (and how fucking shit is a 20 team European competition with 6 English teams? Although I realise that's a separate matter). That European "promotion and relegation" is what our owners want to remove (and I would imagine is true of at least 3 other English teams and probably the Italian clubs too) because the financial jeapardy of CL relegation means the value of their franchise is undervalued - make those revenues locked in, their asset is worth more. LFC don't need more money to increase the capital value of the club, they just need to secure their income streams. 

 

There are major teams all over Europe who's dream is destroyed by this. Rangers are to get their journey next season. Ajax, one of Europe's genuine royalty, cast aside. There's no path for when or if russian football grows on the scale it absolutely could and their sides get their chance at the top table. Closing the door in this way leaves most countries in Europe without any kind of European dream. If we absolutely have to be locked in, lock us into a 50/60 team competition that others can come into.  

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17 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

If we absolutely have to be locked in, lock us into a 50/60 team competition that others can come into.  

This wouldn’t be the worst compromise. I know it would still be tough for many to swallow, but scrapping the desecrated Europa League and having a single, expanded competition with enhanced FFP and where the ESL clubs and 5 yearly qualifiers enter at the second or third round or so would do mega business. You could sell that on the basis that it dramatically expands Europe's top table for clubs across the continent.
 

Let’s be honest, the pyramid / tier system is faulty because even if some of the ESL clubs are prone to missing out on the CL, they’re still too big to ever be in danger of relegation in their own divisions. If giving them a year spot means that the likes of West Ham, Everton and Leeds have a realistic chance of regular European football, the overriding sentiment towards it would soon change.

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3 minutes ago, TheDrowningMan said:

This wouldn’t be the worst compromise. I know it would still be tough for many to swallow, but scrapping the desecrated Europa League and having a single, expanded competition with enhanced FFP and where the ESL clubs and 5 yearly qualifiers enter at the second or third round or so would do mega business. You could sell that on the basis that it dramatically expands Europe's top table for clubs across the continent.
 

 

Is that not the way the Copa Libertadores is? It looks a massive tournament with every man and his dog invited to it. 

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11 minutes ago, TheDrowningMan said:

This wouldn’t be the worst compromise. I know it would still be tough for many to swallow, but scrapping the desecrated Europa League and having a single, expanded competition with enhanced FFP and where the ESL clubs and 5 yearly qualifiers enter at the second or third round or so would do mega business. You could sell that on the basis that it dramatically expands Europe's top table for clubs across the continent.
 

Let’s be honest, the pyramid / tier system is faulty because even if some of the ESL clubs are prone to missing out on the CL, they’re still too big to ever be in danger of relegation in their own divisions. If giving them a year spot means that the likes of West Ham, Everton and Leeds have a realistic chance of regular European football, the overriding sentiment towards it would soon change.

Exactly. But while you say we could scrap the EL, today we have teams "relegated" from the CL to the EL at the midseason break. In this format we could have to top teams go off for the "super League" title, the mid-tiers in another competion and the bottom clubs get fuck all. We have a 32 team competition now, I don't see how it's fair to reduce that to 20 and within that guarantee more clubs a seat. Obviously the issue with a larger format is the greedy cunts will still want all the money. 

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51 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Exactly. But while you say we could scrap the EL, today we have teams "relegated" from the CL to the EL at the midseason break. In this format we could have to top teams go off for the "super League" title, the mid-tiers in another competion and the bottom clubs get fuck all. 


I’ve said something similar to this in the past and again yesterday and I fully agree with scrapping the EL.
 

Drop the EL group stages. Have a 64 team group stage. Top 16 or 32 clubs play for the CL, the next 16 or 32 clubs play for the UEFA Cup and even now, the bottom 16 play for the Conference Cup.
 

That would allow 7 or 8 English clubs to qualify for it each season and how well you do is based on merit. 
 

Allow some sort of weighting to the TV deal (ie a group game of PSG v Man Utd gets more revenue than Prague v Salzburg or something) and clubs to organise their own sponsorship deals for the games and boom, done, simples 

 

Project Big Picture should also come into play. Bin off the League Cup, have more CL Group games. Reduce the Premiership to 18 sides. 

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