Go fuck yourselves FSG

[Scott_M]

In the summer we all wanted a left back & another forward. We signed a left back, another forward and one of the best players in Europe over the past 5+ years.

 

Unfortunately it's not worked out so far but there are obviously underlying reasons for it all. 

 

Now we can't buy players because there is nobody to sell them to? Considering we sold Brewster & Hoever for the best part of c.£35m, I wouldn't bet on that. 

 

Criticising FSG's business model is nonsense. They promised success on and off the pitch and they've delivered. Did it take longer than we'd all have liked? Obviously. But they still delivered.

 

Or are we blaming them for not planning for a global pandemic. Views of this are distorted because of the wealth of Chelsea & City. Without those two clubs, everybody would be in the same life boat. Instead, they are Billy Zane in Titanic getting in the way of women and children first and pushing their way to the front while everybody else struggles to keep their heads above water.

 

I don't really like blaming "luck", it's no coincidence that the Mancs at their peak and us over the last few seasons have scored so many late goes. Thats not "luck" that's determination to keep going. But the way VVD, Thiago, Gomez, Jota and probably a few others is incredibly unlucky - we can't influence other behaviour.

 

I get this season is incredibly frustrating, I'm as fucked off as anybody on here, but I feel we need to suck up it's a disappointment (unless we can pull of a miracle in the CL) and focus on going again in August.

 

The squad obviously needs improving, but IMO, it doesn't need an overhaul. A couple of quality players in key positions (a centre back, central midfield and upfront) along with returning players will lift everybody's spirits and give us a new imputes.

 

Klopp left Dortmund because he couldn't replace outgoing players with players of similar or better quality. He'll know better than anybody the potential cross roads we are at.

[dockers_strike]

19 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

In the summer we all wanted a left back & another forward. We signed a left back, another forward and one of the best players in Europe over the past 5+ years.

 

Unfortunately it's not worked out so far but there are obviously underlying reasons for it all. 

 

Now we can't buy players because there is nobody to sell them to? Considering we sold Brewster & Hoever for the best part of c.£35m, I wouldn't bet on that. 

 

Criticising FSG's business model is nonsense. They promised success on and off the pitch and they've delivered. Did it take longer than we'd all have liked? Obviously. But they still delivered.

 

Or are we blaming them for not planning for a global pandemic. Views of this are distorted because of the wealth of Chelsea & City. Without those two clubs, everybody would be in the same life boat. Instead, they are Billy Zane in Titanic getting in the way of women and children first and pushing their way to the front while everybody else struggles to keep their heads above water.

 

I don't really like blaming "luck", it's no coincidence that the Mancs at their peak and us over the last few seasons have scored so many late goes. Thats not "luck" that's determination to keep going. But the way VVD, Thiago, Gomez, Jota and probably a few others is incredibly unlucky - we can't influence other behaviour.

 

I get this season is incredibly frustrating, I'm as fucked off as anybody on here, but I feel we need to suck up it's a disappointment (unless we can pull of a miracle in the CL) and focus on going again in August.

 

The squad obviously needs improving, but IMO, it doesn't need an overhaul. A couple of quality players in key positions (a centre back, central midfield and upfront) along with returning players will lift everybody's spirits and give us a new imputes.

 

Klopp left Dortmund because he couldn't replace outgoing players with players of similar or better quality. He'll know better than anybody the potential cross roads we are at.

Agreed. Abramovic has told tuchel he has £250m to spend in the summer according to reports. That's on top of the £200m+ he gave fwank. Guardiola's reported as saying 'we've lot of money to spend' in the summer as well.

 

Even if FSG spent the combined van Dijk and Allison money  and more, that means we're still likely to be 3rd biggest spenders and some way behind city and chelsea.

 

People would still moan. What some want are owners who will outspend city and chelsea. Not going to happen, ever, in my humble opinion.

 

[Scott_M]

2 minutes ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

I just want us to spend what we earn and strengthen when we are at the top 

 

Are you saying last summer with Jota, Thiago & Tsimikas you didn't thing we strengthened when we were at the top?

[El Rojo]

1 hour ago, Doctor Troy said:

I remember reading a few articles about the Juventus team of the late 90s, mainlybfrom that World Soccer magazine. Marcello Lippi got some ex Marine to train them and Lippi tried pushing most of the team to the limit each season. He would make one or two maximum signings per year but they would be squad fillers. 

 

The guy who wrote the article said that their bodies couldn't cope with the constant exertion from 28 onwards and they would decline a lot quicker than players playing for other teams because of the training regime and the fact that the same 13 players were playing every game.

 

Maybe explains what we are seeing with Firmino or a few of the other players who are picking up injuries because they basically have no down time. 

I think the current shitshow is attributable in significant part to exhaustion on every level from the demands of Klopp's game. A small squad of first team players and the absence of a pre-season has greatly worsened the effects of this. 

 

Of course the injuries are a major factor too, but we shipped seven goals against Villa with Alisson the only major absentee from the squad (and Jota in for Mane).

Hope some of the older lads can recover though, otherwise we're rightly screwed. 

[dockers_strike]

17 minutes ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

I just want us to spend what we earn and strengthen when we are at the top but alas even that is too much and all we get is the bullshit articles, they've done some good things for us but some bad that  said I'd sooner of won the league the way we did than the way oilgarchs have done so.

I'd also like the best manager we are lucky to have to be backed when required and not need to resort to Ben Davies type signings.

Mate, I know loads here think Im an FSG shill. Neither am I trying to rubbish what you say.

 

I believe the club is spending what it earns but like any other business or indeed family, you have to keep some back for a rainy day. And a rainy day is here. The club's income has been cut. It's expected income will be down at least by £40m. That was the declared profit in the last accounts.

 

People keep chucking clubs like villa and sheff utd outspending us but that doesnt tell the whole story. Im not going to repeat it again.

 

Personally, Ive no problem with Ben Davies type signings. I think there are likely some rough diamonds in the Championship and lower plus we wouldnt have Andy Robbo if we ignored such players.

 

 

[BeefStroganoff]

Some of you will never, ever, learn.

[dockers_strike]

9 minutes ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

 

Since we won big ears we have a net spend of -1mil ffs (not including the Harvey Elliot fee)

I don't think they will change this and the next move will be to become like the Red Bull franchise..

I dont get this correlation about since winning the CL we should have spent more and there's always hindsight involved. We might not have won the title if we'd brought in other players.

 

As it was, we won the title with those players that won the CL. People are kicking off saying Thiago has been instrumental in our poor results since he signed. Crazy I know.

 

But imagine if we'd signed Thiago and a couple of others after the CL final and missed the title again by 1 point. Yes, we could be running around saying Yay, we spent more but didnt improve the squad enough to win the title.

[Scott_M]

51 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Some of you will never, ever, learn.

 

Enlighten us then, old wise and insightful oracle.

[Barrington Womble]

not that i am saying this would happen, but equally not I am not saying it won't. What would people think here if we finished say 6th or 7th, failed to win the CL and they sacked klopp? I don't know much about their rounders team, but i think they have not been slow to respond in the face of poor results. finance is very much a results led business where people fire and ask questions later, i don't think there's much tolerance for failure in werners business either - in fact I might go as far as to say, it is very much part of american culture from my experiences. this is only something that occurred to me since this rafa talk and him saying about he might come in in a crisis. i have got to to say i wouldn't be shocked if they did get rid of klopp if that's where we finished. obviously it would be devastating, but it wouldn't surprise me.  

[Scott_M]

1 hour ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

No not at all, Tsimkas is a back up if that, Thiago Gini's replacement, and Jota a much required addition but hardly a statement of intent. We got Jota due to the payments not that it is a bad thing but ffs we didn't even replace Lovren or get the dross out of the club, Origi should of been fucked off straight away to anyone for any price.

 

1) The back up to Robbo was Milner. At the time, did you not think Tsimkas would be an improvement on Milner? Or would you have bought a player better than Robbo?

 

2) At the time we signed Thiago he wasn't Gini's replacement as Gini is still here. We also don't know how that might play in the summer. We were well stocked in midfield, signing a player undisputed quality of Thiago is a statement of intent IMO.

 

3) Same point on Jota as Tsimkas. It was very had to improve on our front 3. The back up of Shaqiri and Origi weren't good enough. Jota was brought in to be better than them. The fact Jota forced his way into the first 11 and we're all desperate for him back shows what an impact he's made.

 

In hindsight, yes, Lovren should have been replaced. But it was Fabinho who was going to drop back. Injuries happen but for 3 players in the same position to get the seriously injured (and Fabinho suffering injuries as well) is just fucking rotten.

[Scott_M]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

not that i am saying this would happen, but equally not I am not saying it won't. What would people think here if we finished say 6th or 7th, failed to win the CL and they sacked klopp? ...i wouldn't be shocked if they did get rid of klopp if that's where we finished. 

 

I don't think they haven't been shy at replacing the Red Sox coaches when they've under performed. They weren't shy with Dalglish or Rodgers either.

 

They'd surely be aware of the circumstances around our downturn and there would, rightly, be a supporters revolt if they sacked him.

[BeefStroganoff]

9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

not that i am saying this would happen, but equally not I am not saying it won't. What would people think here if we finished say 6th or 7th, failed to win the CL and they sacked klopp? I don't know much about their rounders team, but i think they have not been slow to respond in the face of poor results. finance is very much a results led business where people fire and ask questions later, i don't think there's much tolerance for failure in werners business either - in fact I might go as far as to say, it is very much part of american culture from my experiences. this is only something that occurred to me since this rafa talk and him saying about he might come in in a crisis. i have got to to say i wouldn't be shocked if they did get rid of klopp if that's where we finished. obviously it would be devastating, but it wouldn't surprise me.  

American business is pretty ruthless. Henry, Werner and co didn't get where they are by being kind, generous and caring.

[BeefStroganoff]

24 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

Enlighten us then, old wise and insightful oracle.

Well, you know, some of us did say the squad was underfunded and needed a leg up for the next few years mainly because of these three scenarios:

 

Performance levels

Fatigue

Drop off in replacement quality

 

And we did mention, CONSTANTLY, that the squad carried players that were incredibly unreliable injury wise, and lots of us, DID SAY going into this season we can't do it with the CB options we have knowing their injury records.

 

Theres nothing oracle about any of it of course, its just logic and common sense, and the club has failed at avoiding it and its due in no part to lack of strengthening over the last several windows, where players like Origi, Shaqiri, OX, Matip should have been swiftly moved on.

 

And yet everyone said yeah, yeah, we are fine, the squad is good enough. Of course we won the league, but at what cost? Now a lot of the players have hit a wall and look dead on their feet. Our top 11-13, most have been injured, injury is biting away at the squad week in week out. The replacements we brought in cannot live up to the demand that is expected of them. None of Taki, Origi, Shaqiri, Ox, Jones for example, have taken their chance to shine and virtually offered nothing.

 

So now we are at a crossroads and our manager is under extreme pressure to find solutions. His team can only function one way, its built on emotion and intensity and requires having all the moving parts to make it a success. As you can see we are missing too many cogs and the cogs brought in can't cut it.

 

From a squad perspective, theres only two viable options now. We plow on with what we have in the summer, hope that some of these players step up. We can't flog a main man because no one has the buying power to do a Coutinho. Or we hope FSG dip into their pockets and make some major investment in the team whilst removing others who are next to useless, on. 

 

But I just can't see the second scenario happening unless FSG get desperate. Every occasion they dip into their own pockets eats away at the grand total of the asset when they sell and I don't think they are prepared to gamble with that.

 

They were probably hoping for another Jurgen miracle this season but it looks like its not gonna happen.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Getting rid of Klopp off the back of this season wouldnt just be ruthless thing to do, it would be the dumbest thing anyone would have done ever

[BeefStroganoff]

2 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez C-137 said:

Getting rid of Klopp off the back of this season wouldnt just be ruthless thing to do, it would be the dumbest thing anyone would have done ever

So as we know FSG are stats crazy and they usually make decisions based off the data. Do they analyse Jurgen in the same way? Do they think he's peaked? Do they think he is worn out? Who knows.

[Scott_M]

8 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Well, you know, some of us did say the squad was underfunded and needed a leg up for the next few years mainly because of these three scenarios:

 

Performance levels

Fatigue

Drop off in replacement quality

 

And we did mention, CONSTANTLY, that the squad carried players that were incredibly unreliable injury wise, and lots of us, DID SAY going into this season we can't do it with the CB options we have knowing their injury records.

 

Underfunded after 97 & 99 points and the European Cup. Imagine what we could have won.

 

I stopped reading here but given your oracle like abilities, maybe you should offer your services to the club. Klopp has said he prefers working with a smaller squad and we'll employ some of the best sports doctors & physios etc available, but hey, you obviously know better than all those qualified professionals. 

 

 

[Bjornebye]

Lets all chip in and send Elon Musk some persuasive scouse birds 

 

 

[Scott_M]

2 minutes ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

I'd sign a player to put pressure on him yes, I think he was a needed signing or someone like him.

Since we were well stocked what was the plan for him? he is a quality passer etc yes but slow as fuck, I think he is a good squad player yes. (what's wrong with having quality players to put pressure on others and to try and overtake them in the squad?)

A good signing, can't argue with him being here.

Fully agree but we all know that once those injuries happened plans should of been put in place and to me at least it seems they weren't, basically I feel a lot of players behind the 1st 11 have been found wanting and shouldn't be here they should of been upgraded.

 

I read an article on FSG with regard to the rounders team and it seems the plan there is boom and bust rinse and repeat I don't think this works in football.

 

I don't disagree with some of that but, say Robbo for example, we'd all agree he's one of the best full backs in the world. Buying somebody of similar quality or potential would cost a fortune and given Robbo's quality, would the said player want to come to be second best or get an opportunity to show what they can do?

 

With Tsmikas, theoretically (obviously he's had issues), it's a significant stretch to improve on Robbo, so we improve the squad by improving on Milner. 

 

Thiago is significantly better than a squad player. He came in because we saw value in adding a player, likely better (certainly a different skill set), than we already have. I know it's not worked for Thiago at the moment, but again, I'm sure the rest of the impacts to the rest of the side are impacting him as well. 

[BeefStroganoff]

7 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

Underfunded after 97 & 99 points and the European Cup. Imagine what we could have won.

 

I stopped reading here but given your oracle like abilities, maybe you should offer your services to the club. Klopp has said he prefers working with a smaller squad and we'll employ some of the best sports doctors & physios etc available, but hey, you obviously know better than all those qualified professionals. 

 

 

For goodness sakes, its short term-ism though. How long do we expect to get those same 11-13 players to continually run through walls for?

 

The reason City can bounce back and win almost everything in sight is because they can continually rotate and when they bring players into the side theres very little performance drop off. We have that with about 13 players. They have that with about 18. If we had invested every window, bringing in a little more quality over time we would be in a far better position to absorb losses.

[Scott_M]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Lets all chip in and send Elon Musk some persuasive scouse birds 

 

 

 

Yeah, but we don't want to be a billionaires play thing.

 

He could send some of our less intelligent supporters to a different plant though, so that would be a bonus.

[BeefStroganoff]

11 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

Underfunded after 97 & 99 points and the European Cup. Imagine what we could have won.

 

I stopped reading here but given your oracle like abilities, maybe you should offer your services to the club. Klopp has said he prefers working with a smaller squad and we'll employ some of the best sports doctors & physios etc available, but hey, you obviously know better than all those qualified professionals. 

 

 

Put me on ignore mate, we don't agree and you are a bit of a belled truth be told. If you can't be bothered to read it all, don't bother replying with sarky comments.

[Scott_M]

Just now, BeefStroganoff said:

For goodness sakes, its short term-ism though. How long do we expect to get those same 11-13 players to continually run through walls for?

 

The reason City can bounce back and win almost everything in sight is because they can continually rotate and when they bring players into the side theres very little performance drop off. We have that with about 13 players. They have that with about 18. If we had invested every window, bringing in a little more quality over time we would be in a far better position to absorb losses.

 

Maybe if City had our injury problems this season, they wouldn't rotate as much.

[KevieG]

1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

I dont get this correlation about since winning the CL we should have spent more and there's always hindsight involved. We might not have won the title if we'd brought in other players.

 

As it was, we won the title with those players that won the CL. People are kicking off saying Thiago has been instrumental in our poor results since he signed. Crazy I know.

 

But imagine if we'd signed Thiago and a couple of others after the CL final and missed the title again by 1 point. Yes, we could be running around saying Yay, we spent more but didnt improve the squad enough to win the title.

We should have signed De Ligt after we won the champions league. That signing would probably have been enough for that year. 

 

[Scott_M]

1 minute ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Put me on ignore mate, we don't agree and you are a bit of a belled truth be told. If you can't be bothered to read it all, don't bother replying with sarky comments.

 

This is the first time I've looked at this thread in months. 

 

I didn't read what you put because your opening couple of sentences were pure bollocks. If you obviously know so much about injuries and optimising performance, you should send a politely worded to the club offering your services outlining your qualifications - don't we all want the club to be successful? I know I do. 

 

If you don't know about this stuff, you're talking shite, hoping some sticks and trying to play the tedious "Blame FSG for everything" game, then it only re-affirms why I've not looked in here in months, because it's the same boring crap going round and round and round. 

 

PS - it's bellend.

[BeefStroganoff]

6 minutes ago, KevieG said:

We should have signed De Ligt after we won the champions league. That signing would probably have been enough for that year. 

 

If you can't spend like an oil state, doesn't it make more sense to buy a little quality once or twice per window? thats where the term, build from a position of strength comes from. I know footy is different these days but thats the way the Club used to do it. Bring new faces in to challenge, keep the players on their toes, keep the players focused and sharp.

 

I'd argue the only time we have done that so far in the last few years was Jota and look what happened there.