Go fuck yourselves FSG

[TheHowieLama]

We bought Sotons best player like 5 years in a row.

[aRdja]

14 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

surely it can't work forever trying to find footballers in the middle isle at aldi? 

I think “forever” is stretching it. We have the second most expensive goalkeeper and the second most expensive centre half ever. Keita and Fabinho cost us close to £100m combined, brought in in the same transfer window. We paid £45m for a back-up forward just last summer.

[Barrington Womble]

4 hours ago, aRdja said:

I think “forever” is stretching it. We have the second most expensive goalkeeper and the second most expensive centre half ever. Keita and Fabinho cost us close to £100m combined, brought in in the same transfer window. We paid £45m for a back-up forward just last summer.

Keita was in the middle isle in Aldi. We got him on a release clause. He might have been an expensive item, but considering how we buy, I think it's fair to assume our objective was to remove the real negotiation, we're bidding on a player when the other side's backs are against the wall. 

 

Having the most 2nd most expensive goalkeeper and most expensive centre back is because we sold a player for the 3rd highest transfer ever. Fabinho I'll give you. It was fucking years ago. And proves my point really, is the majority of players we try to sign are sale items. 

[aRdja]

36 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Keita was in the middle isle in Aldi. We got him on a release clause. He might have been an expensive item, but considering how we buy, I think it's fair to assume our objective was to remove the real negotiation, we're bidding on a player when the other side's backs are against the wall. 

 

Having the most 2nd most expensive goalkeeper and most expensive centre back is because we sold a player for the 3rd highest transfer ever. Fabinho I'll give you. It was fucking years ago. And proves my point really, is the majority of players we try to sign are sale items. 

Keita was more expensive than Fabinho. I’m happy to leave the details on how they closed the deal to you, but the fact is we paid £50m+ for him. At the time he was the third most expensive CM in the PL after Pogba and De Bruyne, having been voted as the 2nd best player in Bundesliga. The fact that we got him on a release clause is irrelevant. PSG got Neymar on a release clause, no on ein their right mind would call Neymar a ‘middle-aisle Aldi’ player. I love Aldi, but you’re off the mark with this one I’m afraid. 
 

With Van Dijk and Alisson, you’re right they were funded by Coutinho’s sale... but they were premium products regardless. Alisson was the most expensive goalkeeper at the time and Van Dijk was the most expensive defender at the time. I challenge you to find one item at Aldi more expensive than the equivalent at Waitrose... non-existent.

[Barrington Womble]

33 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Keita was more expensive than Fabinho. I’m happy to leave the details on how they closed the deal to you, but the fact is we paid £50m+ for him. At the time he was the third most expensive CM in the PL after Pogba and De Bruyne, having been voted as the 2nd best player in Bundesliga. The fact that we got him on a release clause is irrelevant. PSG got Neymar on a release clause, no on ein their right mind would call Neymar a ‘middle-aisle Aldi’ player. I love Aldi, but you’re off the mark with this one I’m afraid. 
 

With Van Dijk and Alisson, you’re right they were funded by Coutinho’s sale... but they were premium products regardless. Alisson was the most expensive goalkeeper at the time and Van Dijk was the most expensive defender at the time. I challenge you to find one item at Aldi more expensive than the equivalent at Waitrose... non-existent.

I know keita was more expensive. But I think you're missing my point. Edwards gets praised for his negotiating skills, but what I'm saying is we look for deals where there is little or no negotiating, which was the case with Keita. And chamberlain. And shaq. And solanke. And Elliot. And thiago. And matip. And minamino. And Davies. And Adrian. And Salah. And alisson (see what I did there, I included an expensive signing, but we got the deal we wanted because like Salah we got him because of Roma's need to sell to comply with ffp). 

 

It's a bit like when your bird says "I've just saved 50 quid on a new dress". What do you need a new dress for? "I don't, but it was £90 and I got it for £40, so I've saved £50". And she's right. If she needs a dress soon (see alisson, Salah for example), she's saved 50 quid. But if next time she needs a dress it's in the winter, so she has to go and buy one, the original one is just pointless unless she sticks in on eBay (see Shaq, minamino). If we restrict our view of the market to only players who are on deals, we'll occasionally get the ones we want. More often than not, we'll get square pegs for round holes. But eh, at least they were cheap though? 

 

[aRdja]

13 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I know keita was more expensive. But I think you're missing my point. Edwards gets praised for his negotiating skills, but what I'm saying is we look for deals where there is little or no negotiating, which was the case with Keita. And chamberlain. And shaq. And solanke. And Elliot. And thiago. And matip. And minamino. And Davies. And Adrian. And Salah. And alisson (see what I did there, I included an expensive signing, but we got the deal we wanted because like Salah we got him because of Roma's need to sell to comply with ffp). 

 

It's a bit like when your bird says "I've just saved 50 quid on a new dress". What do you need a new dress for? "I don't, but it was £90 and I got it for £40, so I've saved £50". And she's right. If she needs a dress soon (see alisson, Salah for example), she's saved 50 quid. But if next time she needs a dress it's in the winter, so she has to go and buy one, the original one is just pointless unless she sticks in on eBay (see Shaq, minamino). If we restrict our view of the market to only players who are on deals, we'll occasionally get the ones we want. More often than not, we'll get square pegs for round holes. But eh, at least they were cheap though?

Those are different types of signing though. We could’ve easily got cheaper alternatives than Van Dijk, Alisson and Keita elsewhere, but we went for them because they must have felt they were the right players for us. We didn’t save any cash buying Alisson for example because he was the most expensive goalkeeper of all time, at the time.

[Harry Squatter]

The Echo going into full FSG arselicking mode again today going on about the academy saving the club millions. 

 

You can almost set your watch to it. We must be the only club in the world to constantly pretend we are skint and gaslight the fans into thinking spending any money is cheating.

[Freddo]

What really aggravates me is this constant talk about how missing out on top 4 will really affect our ability to attract talent. We all know it will mean less money into the club but let's face it, will it matter that much as they don't back the manager with or without top 4. Or whether we win the thing or the league or win nothing. The likes of James Pearce need a reality check amongst others. 

[Harry Squatter]

5 minutes ago, Freddo said:

What really aggravates me is this constant talk about how missing out on top 4 will really affect our ability to attract talent. We all know it will mean less money into the club but let's face it, will it matter that much as they don't back the manager with or without top 4. Or whether we win the thing or the league or win nothing. The likes of James Pearce need a reality check amongst others. 

It's just a convenient excuse not to spend again. There has been excuse after excuse since 2019.  Whereas the reason we wont get the top 4 is because we didnt spend in the first place.

[Freddo]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

It's just a convenient excuse not to spend again. There has been excuse after excuse since 2019.  Whereas the reason we wont get the top 4 is because we didnt spend in the first place.

Agreed. I just think they're taking the piss out of us now. In fact they have done for a good while. 

Pleading poverty like some homeless fella on a street corner. All the while trying to be clever demanding ridiculously high fees for average players. Then you get the echo and Pearce and Reddy giving it saying how smart we are. Sounds like we're not that smart to me when these new contracts are massively incentive based. We're poorer when we win things and John and Co don't like it. 

They've been rumbled. 

[SlugTrail]

On 20/02/2021 at 22:45, Captain Howdy said:

Also looks like Henderson’s gonna be out for a while. Yet another fucking gingerbread man, the fuck is up with our players??????????

They have been going full pelt for 3 years, Jurgen is a big believer in conditioning the players over the pre season meaning they are ready for the demands he is putting on them after a 6 week break, this year we have had none of that and 2 games a week for most of the season.

 

If he trusted the squad players to do a job Then we might not be in this position, but he obviously doesn't.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, aRdja said:

Those are different types of signing though. We could’ve easily got cheaper alternatives than Van Dijk, Alisson and Keita elsewhere, but we went for them because they must have felt they were the right players for us. We didn’t save any cash buying Alisson for example because he was the most expensive goalkeeper of all time, at the time.

I know there are different types signings I made that point in my original post, hence why I used that word "mostly" and not "every". But the fact remains our starting point is the bargain bucket. 

 

1 hour ago, Doctor Troy said:

The Echo going into full FSG arselicking mode again today going on about the academy saving the club millions. 

 

You can almost set your watch to it. We must be the only club in the world to constantly pretend we are skint and gaslight the fans into thinking spending any money is cheating.

It actually started midweek last week. There's been a mimimum of 1 article per day, but sometimes more about how fucking great FSG are since then. It's funny, I was thinking we might get an "how amazing the new training complex is" story, but maybe the results on the pitch are holding that back. Maybe a 40k seat Anny road planning permission story will be in the echo by midweek, with flats with views of the pitch and brasses at every seat to give blow jobs while you're watching the game. 

[Crazy Dave]

FSG will be on a very slippery slope if they don’t massively back the manager this summer. They could get away with it before, in part because there was season on season improvement but this squad clearly needs a rebuild and not just 2 or 3 players. It’s not an exaggeration to say that a third of the squad needs to be phased out at least. 
 

I don’t think for a second that we will make top 4 now. Chelsea will surely finish above us given they now have a competent manager and serious firepower. I can’t see us making up the ground on Leicester or the Mancs either. 
 

This situation was all too predictable as well. We’ve done our best to avoid spending money since 2018 and the squad has been allowed to grow old together. There’s too many players around 30 years of age who have driven themselves into the ground over the past few years. Eventually it was always going to catch up with us. 
 

We’ve also allowed ourselves to be sentimental, and forgot what worked when we were last consistently successful. The Liverpool of the past had no sentiment for players that had lost a step or were on the way down - they were bombed out and we always, always recruited from a position of strength. 
 

This side won the Champions League and signed Adrian. Says it all. 

[Barrington Womble]

42 minutes ago, Crazy Dave said:

FSG will be on a very slippery slope if they don’t massively back the manager this summer. They could get away with it before, in part because there was season on season improvement but this squad clearly needs a rebuild and not just 2 or 3 players. It’s not an exaggeration to say that a third of the squad needs to be phased out at least. 
 

I don’t think for a second that we will make top 4 now. Chelsea will surely finish above us given they now have a competent manager and serious firepower. I can’t see us making up the ground on Leicester or the Mancs either. 
 

This situation was all too predictable as well. We’ve done our best to avoid spending money since 2018 and the squad has been allowed to grow old together. There’s too many players around 30 years of age who have driven themselves into the ground over the past few years. Eventually it was always going to catch up with us. 
 

We’ve also allowed ourselves to be sentimental, and forgot what worked when we were last consistently successful. The Liverpool of the past had no sentiment for players that had lost a step or were on the way down - they were bombed out and we always, always recruited from a position of strength. 
 

This side won the Champions League and signed Adrian. Says it all. 

Will they be on a slippery slope though? It seems to me people say all the time "they better spend next time". Even the FSG fan boys all went on about how there was loads of time to get in centre backs for Jan 1st, how it would be unacceptable if they didn't and all the club do is drip, drip, drip of how signing players is impossible, till people accept it as inevitable. They panicked at the end of the month when matip got injured again and signed probably the 2 cheapest solutions they could, one of whom is that bad he's behind Nat Phillips and they waited so late, we had gone from a team top of the league at Christmas to being out of contention by the end of the month when those players were signed - and again they were signed so late, they weren't ready to be considered options when we played City, which might have given us a chance to be dragged back into it. Yet, FSG seem in as good a place today as they were at any point over the last 10 years and the Echo (occasionally aided and abetted by the Athletic, Reddy & co) continue to do nothing but run positive stories about them. The fans sit back and take it. FSG will be just fine and the only thing that will shake them to their boots is if Klopp decides he doesn't want to do it any more and I don't see him doing that. 

[3 Stacks]

3 hours ago, Freddo said:

What really aggravates me is this constant talk about how missing out on top 4 will really affect our ability to attract talent. We all know it will mean less money into the club but let's face it, will it matter that much as they don't back the manager with or without top 4. Or whether we win the thing or the league or win nothing. The likes of James Pearce need a reality check amongst others. 

It wont at all if we're only missing out one season. We signed Matip, Mané and Wijnaldum when we were light years away in standing from where we are now. We can easily find new gems.  

[3 Stacks]

And unless the club take the view that this season is a fluke and that they want to essentially bring the same squad back, money will be spent. Because clubs as a rule spend most of their money when they want to rebuild a squad and coming off disappointments so they can bounce back.  

[Iceman]

Has Johnny got a new yacht yet? 

[TheHowieLama]

Was hoping someone could sum this up - nice Ice.

[Herp McDerp]

13 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Has Johnny got a new yacht yet? 

 

Linda's virgin blood facials don't come cheap either.

[No2]

6 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Keita was in the middle isle in Aldi. We got him on a release clause. He might have been an expensive item, but considering how we buy, I think it's fair to assume our objective was to remove the real negotiation, we're bidding on a player when the other side's backs are against the wall. 

 

Having the most 2nd most expensive goalkeeper and most expensive centre back is because we sold a player for the 3rd highest transfer ever. Fabinho I'll give you. It was fucking years ago. And proves my point really, is the majority of players we try to sign are sale items. 

I think you're wide of the mark here. We definitely want no part in transfer saga's, we have a price and thats it but its not all bargain basement. We literally have all types, worlds most expensive, free transfers, cheap buy out clauses, some bargains and some we paid over the odds on. There is nothing wrong with the model, the problem i would have is how rigid they are when a crisis arises, using someone like Koulibaly as an example, we would never get involved at that price at his age but January 1st was a time for desperate measures, spend the centre forward money for next summer now and save the season.

 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

2 hours ago, Herp McDerp said:

 

Linda's virgin blood facials don't come cheap either.

Is is that virgins blood or just first bleeders?

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, No2 said:

I think you're wide of the mark here. We definitely want no part in transfer saga's, we have a price and thats it but its not all bargain basement. We literally have all types, worlds most expensive, free transfers, cheap buy out clauses, some bargains and some we paid over the odds on. There is nothing wrong with the model, the problem i would have is how rigid they are when a crisis arises, using someone like Koulibaly as an example, we would never get involved at that price at his age but January 1st was a time for desperate measures, spend the centre forward money for next summer now and save the season.

 

we do have a price, i agree on that. but i don't think we are much interested in negotiating. we like to go into negotiations where it is loaded in our favour, so they're free (as you point out), tribunal based, players with release clause, players in their last year or as per the Roma piece twice, clubs that needed to sell to fix ffp (but I am sure there'll be some clubs with covid financial problems this summer in the same boat). I think a negotiating position where we are stronger is more important to us than if the player is perfect for us. Sometimes that's just fine because the player is brilliant (Salah, Alisson), but sometimes it's not. For example, do you think we'd have brought either minamino or Shaq here if we'd have had to pay market value? And here's the problem, once they're in, if they don't work out, we've then got to flog them to get someone else in and in the mean time, they clog a place up in the squad. Same (as back to my original point) as the crisp bags we have that occasionally masquerade as footballers who loiter till their contract runs out. We only have about 20-22 senior players plus kids in our 1st team squad, losing maybe half a dozen to people who don't fit, don't have the quality or can't get on the pitch due to injury, undermines us as soon as we get injuries, because they can't contribute when we need them. Too many players in our squad are dead weights and our inability to fuck them off (for whichever reason, but I suspect mostly economic) fucks us. 

 

So for me the question then is how do we solve that problem - for me three things stand out, we need to find exceptions to the price we have on our own players to let them go, we need to look at why we bring in players merely because they look cheap and half decent, we need to consider if carrying injury prone losers through the entirety of their contract is productive. Perhaps we don't need to change all of the policies - perhaps we just need to tweak all 3 slightly. Perhaps we need to completely change one of them, but i think it is a pretty fair thing to want more than about 14 players to be key contributors - we absolutely must get that number up and maybe just getting 2 more of them to contribute would be enough. 

 

Bottom line for me, is in a time where we've lost 6 matches in 9 and haven't scored a goal in open play for 5 home games, we have players like Shaq, Chamberlain, Keita, Origi, Minamino who for various reasons can't help us. They haven't got a player in possession of a shirt who they can put under pressure. If they can't do that, then what's the point of them? 

[Anubis]

2 hours ago, Herp McDerp said:

 

Linda's virgin blood facials don't come cheap either.

Only facials? Pauper. Elizabeth Bathroy knew how to do it properly.

[aRdja]

7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I know there are different types signings I made that point in my original post, hence why I used that word "mostly" and not "every". But the fact remains our starting point is the bargain bucket.

In what way was Keita or Alisson or Jota purchased from the bargain bucket? 

[No2]

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think a negotiating position where we are stronger is more important to us than if the player is perfect for us. Sometimes that's just fine because the player is brilliant (Salah, Alisson), but sometimes it's not.

How does that explain Klopp waiting and waiting for Virgil? I also think you're over playing the Roma situation, if they were that desperate for money why were we the only ones in for Salah and Alisson? We paid at least the going rate for both.

 

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

For example, do you think we'd have brought either minamino or Shaq here if we'd have had to pay market value? And here's the problem, once they're in, if they don't work out, we've then got to flog them to get someone else in and in the mean time, they clog a place up in the squad.

I don't disagree here but equally it makes sense, good player, cheap price, why not? Without Covid,  worst case scenario is we would have doubled our money on Minamino, best case ids he turns out great. Shaq hasn't been a bad signing,  he's been injured more than we would have liked but he's contributed in big ways to the 2 biggest trophies there are.

 

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

We only have about 20-22 senior players plus kids in our 1st team squad, losing maybe half a dozen to people who don't fit, don't have the quality or can't get on the pitch due to injury, undermines us as soon as we get injuries, because they can't contribute when we need them. 

Not sure who you're referring too here, I assume you mean Keita and Ox, I can't think of 6. These 2 were bad buys, not because of company policy but because that sometimes happens. I can only assume they thought they could fix Ox, he wasn't a knock down purchase,  the rate paid was more than he was worth in a normal contract scenario,  final year he was worth half that. 

 

Keita just wasn't what was on the tin. It happens.