Go fuck yourselves FSG

[Marko121]

49 minutes ago, Pete said:

You'd have thought FSG would realise a successful LFC makes them far more money than an unsuccessful one and of there is an issue affecting the ability of LFC to be successful they'd move to remedy it.  But then perhaps I'm just a simpleton not seeing their big picture? 

I've thought about this quite a bit and my take is:

 

Its all about risk and reward.  They would like a successful LFC as that will make them more money, however, that will mean they will have to invest and drop x amount of millions which gives no guarantee of success ( ie we could spend that money and still lose the league by a point )

 

They can keep their x millions and their asset will still grow, just by a smaller % - so still a win for them.

 

Winning for them is not like winning for us.  We like shiny trophies, they like a more valuable asset - they get that either way and get to keep their money.

 

For me, the only difference between them and H & G is that, FSG have the money to keep LFC ticking over and so can stay out of the way and their heads down.  H & G didn't have a pot to piss in so had to be more visible ( ie looking for loans and finance options etc ) FSG have  learnt from that 

 

[No2]

9 minutes ago, Marko121 said:

I've thought about this quite a bit and my take is:

 

Its all about risk and reward.  They would like a successful LFC as that will make them more money, however, that will mean they will have to invest and drop x amount of millions which gives no guarantee of success ( ie we could spend that money and still lose the league by a point )

 

They can keep their x millions and their asset will still grow, just by a smaller % - so still a win for them.

 

Winning for them is not like winning for us.  We like shiny trophies, they like a more valuable asset - they get that either way and get to keep their money.

 

For me, the only difference between them and H & G is that, FSG have the money to keep LFC ticking over and so can stay out of the way and their heads down.  H & G didn't have a pot to piss in so had to be more visible ( ie looking for loans and finance options etc ) FSG have  learnt from that 

 

Marko I think you need to think some more. That last paragraph is shite talk.

[Marko121]

Just now, No2 said:

Marko I think you need to think some more. That last paragraph is shite talk.

Why is that?  That's my take on them. Disagree all you like mate 

[Bobby Hundreds]

9 minutes ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

Yep, always strengthen from a position of strength, something we neglected after big ears and then the league, reap what you sow.

There has always been an excuse. At the top it was the club has no money because our incentive based contracts have all kicked in and then when we are shit the lack of income from winning is holding us back. Then its never a good window to buy or the market is wrong until we sell a player for a big fee then they make out the funds are always there and always have been when the manager needs them. The pandemic has had a drastic effect we are not stupid, id be fine with no signings if we weren't in trouble. It was dumb going into the season relying on matip and gomez, most fans stated this pre season. 

 

I think its just more frustrating because of lockdown mostly plus its united 6 points ahead and they've knocked us out the cup and they are mediocre to fuck managed by a man with no managerial talent what so ever, we out played them nearly every time these last 3 years, how many points ahead did we finish last year and in a short space of time in the defence of our title we are getting beat and saying there was positives because we had moments against these fuckers. There was no positives last night it just highlighted our weaknesses even more so and we did little to address it tactically either just kept exposing our belly.

 

[Ronnie Whelan]

11 minutes ago, Marko121 said:

I've thought about this quite a bit and my take is:

 

Its all about risk and reward.  They would like a successful LFC as that will make them more money, however, that will mean they will have to invest and drop x amount of millions which gives no guarantee of success ( ie we could spend that money and still lose the league by a point )

 

They can keep their x millions and their asset will still grow, just by a smaller % - so still a win for them.

 

Winning for them is not like winning for us.  We like shiny trophies, they like a more valuable asset - they get that either way and get to keep their money.

 

For me, the only difference between them and H & G is that, FSG have the money to keep LFC ticking over and so can stay out of the way and their heads down.  H & G didn't have a pot to piss in so had to be more visible ( ie looking for loans and finance options etc ) FSG have  learnt from that 

 

Yeah agree with all of that.

 

I have no doubt that they want us to win trophies. Of course they do. Having said that if you offered them 1 title, 1 Champions League and the odd FA cup but being a bona fida top 4 club every 7 years they would bite your hand off. That kind of trophy return isn't acceptable to us and nor should it be. 

 

I actually think they are good owners in many ways but once a crisis happens like now, the negative immoveable hard faced business side of them is staring us in the face. My gut feeling is that we basically have verbally agreed a deal for a centre half to come in the summer (probably met the release clause of the lad at Leipzig - think it's about 40 million) who is top class but more importantly for them a classic Jurgen Klopp/moneyball signing - a player that is normally a lot more. That's great for next season but when everyone knows we need even a short term solution until then, they are basically like fuck off to Jurgen. The Liverpool echo portrays us as being super smart how we conduct business. Yeah we are but business is building long term connections. United have an excellent relationship with Sporting who they feel treated them with respect signing Ronaldo and Fernandes. Our owners I'd say are despised by other clubs for bidding low, unsettling players and doing every dirty trick in the book. Clubs like Sporting, Lille or Ajax must hate when we give them a bell about a player. 

 

We will be okay as long as Jurgen is here. He is so good he will find a future 100 million player for 10 million. Over the last few years Trent and Curtis Jones have come through the academy and Elliot looks like an exceptional player in the making. We should have that level of player coming through which not all clubs have. It's an FSG wet dream the quality of our academy.

 

Longer term when Jurgen goes, I think even a very good manager will struggle to keep us as top 4 regulars let alone title winners. It is probably at that point that they will sell us and we will be bought by the Sheikhs, oligarchs or Chinese for a crazy amount of money with FSG making a serious profit. As long as the top 4 gravy train is there, these lads will stick around.

 

[Marko121]

5 minutes ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

Yeah agree with all of that.

 

I have no doubt that they want us to win trophies. Of course they do. Having said that if you offered them 1 title, 1 Champions League and the odd FA cup but being a bona fida top 4 club every 7 years they would bite your hand off. That kind of trophy return isn't acceptable to us and nor should it be. 

 

I actually think they are good owners in many ways but once a crisis happens like now, the negative immoveable hard faced business side of them is staring us in the face. My gut feeling is that we basically have verbally agreed a deal for a centre half to come in the summer (probably met the release clause of the lad at Leipzig - think it's about 40 million) who is top class but more importantly for them a classic Jurgen Klopp/moneyball signing - a player that is normally a lot more. That's great for next season but when everyone knows we need even a short term solution until then, they are basically like fuck off to Jurgen. The Liverpool echo portrays us as being super smart how we conduct business. Yeah we are but business is building long term connections. United have an excellent relationship with Sporting who they feel treated them with respect signing Ronaldo and Fernandes. Our owners I'd say are despised by other clubs for bidding low, unsettling players and doing every dirty trick in the book. Clubs like Sporting, Lille or Ajax must hate when we give them a bell about a player. 

 

We will be okay as long as Jurgen is here. He is so good he will find a future 100 million player for 10 million. Over the last few years Trent and Curtis Jones have come through the academy and Elliot looks like an exceptional player in the making. We should have that level of player coming through which not all clubs have. It's an FSG wet dream the quality of our academy.

 

Longer term when Jurgen goes, I think even a very good manager will struggle to keep us as top 4 regulars let alone title winners. It is probably at that point that they will sell us and we will be bought by the Sheikhs, oligarchs or Chinese for a crazy amount of money with FSG making a serious profit. As long as the top 4 gravy train is there, these lads will stick around.

 

They are very clever business men, but that doesn't always translate to good football men.  The business need has changed ( ie we need at least 1 centre half and need him now ) and their business model of sell to buy doesn't fit with this immediate need.  If you don't change the business model when its obvious that you need to, we suffer on the pitch.

[Halcyon Days]

18 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

We are further behind Manchester United now than we were when they took the club over in 2010. There was a lot of posts on that on this thread earlier in the year. We're closer now over the last season or two, but we've been miles off. They made massive leaps around 2015, which we failed to do. We were going in a very good direction when Ian Ayre was commercial director and then we seem to have a lot of ordinary years once he stepped up and passed the torch on to Billy Hogan once Ayre was officially made MD/CEO or whatever it was. 

Not sure this is true mate, on our current trajectory we were on the verge of overtaking them in the Deloitte revenue stakes. (Modern football i know!) They're still trading on Ferguson's success while we're playing catch up, best team and manager we've had in a generation then this virus resets everything. Think we might actually be cursed.

Still it's no excuse for our defensive predicament and we surely have a few bob in the coffers for a competent professional centre back even a stop gap one, it's probably too late but we'll see.

[No2]

53 minutes ago, Marko121 said:

Why is that?  That's my take on them. Disagree all you like mate 

Apart from the fact they are both yanks and want to make money they are completely different. Hicks and Gillette were here to bleed the club dry and make us pay for privilege. They were also lying cunts, something you can't level at FSG. 

[Barrington Womble]

25 minutes ago, Halcyon Days said:

Not sure this is true mate, on our current trajectory we were on the verge of overtaking them in the Deloitte revenue stakes. (Modern football i know!) They're still trading on Ferguson's success while we're playing catch up, best team and manager we've had in a generation then this virus resets everything. Think we might actually be cursed.

Still it's no excuse for our defensive predicament and we surely have a few bob in the coffers for a competent professional centre back even a stop gap one, it's probably too late but we'll see.

We were on the verge of catching them because of our position in the league and our CL revenues. Our commercial revenues are miles behind them, but they weren't in 2010. It was done to death earlier in the thread. When I've some time later I will find some proper stats. But statista have the below, but it has us in EUR and them in USD - there must be GBP numbers somewhere, but this gives you an idea. Their commercial numbers are brilliant, which is why Ewar Woowar is safe in his job noatter what's happening on the pitch. 

 

 

 

[Marko121]

3 minutes ago, No2 said:

Apart from the fact they are both yanks and want to make money they are completely different. Hicks and Gillette were here to bleed the club dry and make us pay for privilege. They were also lying cunts, something you can't level at FSG. 

Like i've said, they've looked at H & G and gone we'll just do it a different way.  

 

they may not have outright lied, but I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.  

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Wonder when their exit plan will happen? Or if they want it to at all? Who will pay? 
What about the merger? Need for a foreign club link? What the fuck am I talking about.....

[Ronnie Whelan]

38 minutes ago, Marko121 said:

They are very clever business men, but that doesn't always translate to good football men.  The business need has changed ( ie we need at least 1 centre half and need him now ) and their business model of sell to buy doesn't fit with this immediate need.  If you don't change the business model when its obvious that you need to, we suffer on the pitch.

Absolutely and that is my point. 

 

To summarise, their ability as businessmen and their shrewdness has benefitted the club. We are in a much better place than when they took over. They have done a lot of good things (not for our benefit but their own needs of making money). 

 

I wouldn't compare them totally to the other mob. They value our brand as one of the biggest sporting institutions in the world. The other bastards never did. Their shrewd models and their ability to generally make the right decisions means that they have made a huge profit out of us without putting too much back in. I actually think their style of ownership is suited to one where there is a fair financial landscape. That won't happen as can be seen with how City get off with blue murder. To compete on a long term basis unless you have a Jurgen Klopp you need a sugar daddy. I think they will have an exit plan for when that day happens and I don't see them staying too much longer than Jurgen because I'm sure they know that.

 

I think them not giving Jurgen the opportunity to get a proper short term option at centre half is a big mistake on their part that could negatively impact their business models, because the squad is at it's limit and if we don't qualify for the Champions League, it's huge for the club. It shows that they are not football men because in the 60s, 70s and 80s our owners would have done whatever our managers wanted if in such a drastic situation.

[3 Stacks]

17 minutes ago, Marko121 said:

Like i've said, they've looked at H & G and gone we'll just do it a different way.  

 

they may not have outright lied, but I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.  

You don't have to trust them, they're hedge fund owners. The least people can do is recognize when they're competent, which a lot of people outright refuse to do, and criticize them when they deserve it, which some people also refuse to do, but a lot less than the former.

[an tha]

25 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

We were on the verge of catching them because of our position in the league and our CL revenues. Our commercial revenues are miles behind them, but they weren't in 2010. It was done to death earlier in the thread. When I've some time later I will find some proper stats. But statista have the below, but it has us in EUR and them in USD - there must be GBP numbers somewhere, but this gives you an idea. Their commercial numbers are brilliant, which is why Ewar Woowar is safe in his job noatter what's happening on the pitch. 

 

 

 

I know we are coming from a low base, but it still pisses me off we are not making more commercially 

 

I know we have probably grown % wise more than anyone but always feels to me we don't maximise it.

 

Was always so as well....i remember as i am sure many more do our 'club shop' 'souvenir shop' being a fucking poxy little portacabin in the main stand car park selling a few bits and pieces - the fucking hat, scarf, t-shirt or a badge lads on the streets outside had more gear.....meanwhile the mancs were opening their 'megastore'....

[Halcyon Days]

19 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

We were on the verge of catching them because of our position in the league and our CL revenues. Our commercial revenues are miles behind them, but they weren't in 2010. It was done to death earlier in the thread. When I've some time later I will find some proper stats. But statista have the below, but it has us in EUR and them in USD - there must be GBP numbers somewhere, but this gives you an idea. Their commercial numbers are brilliant, which is why Ewar Woowar is safe in his job noatter what's happening on the pitch. 

 

 

 

Sorry thought you meant overall income but yes their commercial figures are ridiculous but will surely start to plateau the more ourselves, City or Chelsea win titles? It's amazing the longterm power sustained success gives a club.

 

FSG don't fuck this up you gang of cunts.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, an tha said:

I know we are coming from a low base, but it still pisses me off we are not making more commercially 

 

I know we have probably grown % wise more than anyone but always feels to me we don't maximise it.

 

Was always so as well....i remember as i am sure many more do our 'club shop' 'souvenir shop' being a fucking poxy little portacabin in the main stand car park selling a few bits and pieces - the fucking hat, scarf, t-shirt or a badge lads on the streets outside had more gear.....meanwhile the mancs were opening their 'megastore'....

but this is my point - it wasn't really a low base when FSG arrived. Looking at those stats I posted above, we report over a season and it looks like they report on the calendar year, so you can't directly compare, but commercial revenues in 2010 for Man United $101m and in 2009/10 we were EUR 75m and the following season EUR85m. So if we say in a like for like period of 2010 it was EUR80m v USD101 . At the end of 2010 the exchange rate was 1 USD = 0.7454 EUR, which would make the man united figure $75m, which puts us ahead at that time.

 

Now I think that might be some exchange rate mix ups, as I am pretty sure when I went through this before they were fractionally ahead of us, but still it illustrates the point. In commercial revenues alone, there was next to fuck all to choose between LFC and MUFC when FSG bought the club (I actually thought we were around 10% behind). We were massively behind on matchday revenues, which is why Moores sold the club, why everyone was desperate for us to move as quickly as possible to catch up. But as soon as Ian Ayre wasn't directly responsible for the commercial side of the club, we started falling behind. Ayre gets a lot of shit (and in many cases quite rightly), but he was an outstanding commercial director through the period where he was hired by H&G until he was moved to being MD by FSG after the takeover. Our performance against the yanks started to get greater once FSG put their man in place. So while it's true to say our commercial revenues have massively increased in the 8 or 9 years Hogan has been at the club, it is also true to say we didn't keep pace with our rivals in the corresponding period. 

 

When I get some time later this week I will dig out the proper facts in GBP, but we were not in the worst shape in 2010 from an income position, our problem at that point of time was the grift being run on the club by H&G. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Halcyon Days said:

Sorry thought you meant overall income but yes their commercial figures are ridiculous but will surely start to plateau the more ourselves, City or Chelsea win titles? It's amazing the longterm power sustained success gives a club.

 

FSG don't fuck this up you gang of cunts.

they have plateaued for them for 5 years and we're still behind. 

[an tha]

10 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

but this is my point - it wasn't really a low base when FSG arrived. Looking at those stats I posted above, we report over a season and it looks like they report on the calendar year, so you can't directly compare, but commercial revenues in 2010 for Man United $101m and in 2009/10 we were EUR 75m and the following season EUR85m. So if we say in a like for like period of 2010 it was EUR80m v USD101 . At the end of 2010 the exchange rate was 1 USD = 0.7454 EUR, which would make the man united figure $75m, which puts us ahead at that time.

 

Now I think that might be some exchange rate mix ups, as I am pretty sure when I went through this before they were fractionally ahead of us, but still it illustrates the point. In commercial revenues alone, there was next to fuck all to choose between LFC and MUFC when FSG bought the club (I actually thought we were around 10% behind). We were massively behind on matchday revenues, which is why Moores sold the club, why everyone was desperate for us to move as quickly as possible to catch up. But as soon as Ian Ayre wasn't directly responsible for the commercial side of the club, we started falling behind. Ayre gets a lot of shit (and in many cases quite rightly), but he was an outstanding commercial director through the period where he was hired by H&G until he was moved to being MD by FSG after the takeover. Our performance against the yanks started to get greater once FSG put their man in place. So while it's true to say our commercial revenues have massively increased in the 8 or 9 years Hogan has been at the club, it is also true to say we didn't keep pace with our rivals in the corresponding period. 

 

When I get some time later this week I will dig out the proper facts in GBP, but we were not in the worst shape in 2010 from an income position, our problem at that point of time was the grift being run on the club by H&G. 

Interesting, ta.

 

I always thought we were nowhere for years and had eaten into the gap a bit over last few....

[Harry Squatter]

According to the top reds on Twatter anyone who wants a centre back now:

 

A). Is a spolit twat. 

B). Probably supported another team before us

C). If not they should fuck off and support a team who just buys the league

D). Has no concept of what the club or city is about

E). We are waiting for a massive transfer kitty in the summer.

 

Ladies and gentlemen I give you..

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Lad am a real supporter lad hhggrr!

[johnsusername]

By all accounts the manager has asked for a centre back. The worrying thing for me is that they seem to have said no to him. 

 

[Brownie]

7 hours ago, Grinch said:

 

Fuck knows where Thiago fits in our side cause our 8s are supposed to be put in a hell of a shift.  Sure won't be as simple as the other two doing his running. 

Thiago has tended to play in a 4231. He’s never been a runner.

 

I assumed when we signed him that he’ll be playing quite a bit in a 4231 alongside Fabinho but that’s been thwarted by the CB situation.

[Harry Squatter]

17 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

By all accounts the manager has asked for a centre back. The worrying thing for me is that they seem to have said no to him. 

 

Pity they never said no to Kenny when he wanted to buy Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

49 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

By all accounts the manager has asked for a centre back. The worrying thing for me is that they seem to have said no to him. 

 

Which accounts are these? Genuinely interested.

[Section_31]

When they tried to furlough the kit man and minimum wage dinner ladies after winning the champions league and World club championship and peddling footy shirts for 90 quid a pop, to be fair the signs were there.