You've got to give Kenny the chance to give this team an identity

[Guest ShoePiss]

antynwa; the fernando torres of forum posters.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Ant, you wanted Benitez out the season we won the FA cup having already won the CL don't go fucking preaching about time and patience.

 

What did Rafa do to Ant and Code?

[TheHitman]

Taking advice from Antynwa on football matters is like taking tax advice from Harry.

 

We all know their dogs are the real brains of the operation.

[Horus]

That is NOT the way we set up. We set up with Stephen Gerrard in an attacking centre midfield position with Bellamy to his right, and Downing to his left. Stephen Gerrard was targeted hard in the first half an hour, in fact, he had the shit kicked out of him, with the result that half our game plan was defunct. Gerrard is just NOT as effective anymore, and is well past his peak. He cannot take the batterings of Bruisers. As for attacking down the left, yes, there was a lot of that, but credit to Spearing, many times he tried to feed Bellamy on the right hand side.

 

You're only talking about positions. I was talking about the game plan. Gerrard didn't get the shit kicked out of him at all, and If our plan wasn't to attack down the left, then I'm fucked if I can work out what else it was supposed to be.

 

It's OK saying that Gerrard was attacking midfield, but how on earth do you get him on the ball in good areas? He had to drop deeper because we were being embarrassed. I suggested in the match thread pretty early on, that we needed to get Carroll on and just bypass the rest of the team and concentrate on getting players around him, because we weren't competitive passing it slowly to the wings, then passing it slowly backwards in to the centre again.

 

I'm being kind when I said our plan was to attack down the left, and I don't think a centre midfielder deserves credit for passing the ball to the right wing.

[bastard oot]

What did Rafa do to Ant and Code?

 

the same as he did to ronnie whelan and jamie redknapp, whatever that was

[bastard oot]

just throwing it out there but if the club decide to change the manager can anyone see kenny taking a managers job somewhere else ? id say its highly unlikely but you never know he might just have the hunger back having managed us for a while and if he's left with no choice but to move on from his current job id imagine he would either take a different job here or retire.

fwiw i hope he stays and we give him another year, but if we are in the bottom half in december and its not down to a ridiculous number of injuries i think his position would be untenable, and as much as i want him to stay, i fear he wont stay on as manager, therefore i dont want to see breaking news tomorrow rafa benitez appointed manager of 'insert club that isnt us here' because he would be my first choice IF the managers job is going in the next few weeks.

 

i cant help thinking though if we end up with a manager for the start of next season and its neither dalglish nor benitez, it would be hilarious if lets say kenny went back to blackburn and rafa took over whoever, but in england, when they would play each other this site would be hilarious

[JermainePennant]

The simple fact is out of all the managers we could realistically get rafa is the best availible.

[bastard oot]

rafa would be my first choice, if we are making a change at all but im not sure we wouldnt be able to attract other good managers, what would turn them off this summer ? to an outsider loads of work needs to be done for 'a team like liverpool' to get back where they should be. if your a manager with a big reputation why not take it on, if you make us great again you'll probably have clubs in spain, italy nad germany offering you ridiculous amounts of money in a couple of years, if you fail to get top 4 next season and liverpool sack you, you get your contract paid out and everyone says, well they sacked benitez and hodgson, they mutually consented dalglish, that club must be impossible to manage. it cant go on forever that its each individual managers fault people will eventually start blaming the club

[KopOut]

You're only talking about positions. I was talking about the game plan. Gerrard didn't get the shit kicked out of him at all, and If our plan wasn't to attack down the left, then I'm fucked if I can work out what else it was supposed to be.

 

It's OK saying that Gerrard was attacking midfield, but how on earth do you get him on the ball in good areas? He had to drop deeper because we were being embarrassed. I suggested in the match thread pretty early on, that we needed to get Carroll on and just bypass the rest of the team and concentrate on getting players around him, because we weren't competitive passing it slowly to the wings, then passing it slowly backwards in to the centre again.

 

I'm being kind when I said our plan was to attack down the left, and I don't think a centre midfielder deserves credit for passing the ball to the right wing.

 

Midfield players have to work hard. In the Norwich game, Jonjo Shelvey ran more miles than anyone else on the pitch..the equivalent of 10,000 metres.

 

If Gerrard is not capable of getting deep to help out, and then getting back up to be an attacking player, then he's past it.

 

No player is bigger than the club..which is why Carra never played in the final. I suspect Shelvey would have been more effective than Gerrard, and maybe now, the manager and coach will feel the same.

[Guest the boy]

The one malign influence that I'd like out of the club is Carragher. If he has any decency at all, he will do as Neville did and hang up his boots. I suspect he won't, in which case the club should pay out of his contract. I read a comment from Spearing recently suggesting that it took him over a year to pluck up the courage to speak to Gerrard, such was his awe of him -- Gerrard should be the one speaking to him. For too long we've laboured under the 'Mr. Liverpool' image of these two players, whose performances for several seasons now have not justified their entrenched positions at the club.

 

Gerrard out right; Carragher gone, Reina sold and the fee reinvested into the midfield. Starting over again, concentrating on youth, with Skrtel, Agger, Johnson, Lucas, Suarez, Carroll and - I maintain - Henderson, we've the bones of a good team.

[2pak]

Midfield players have to work hard. In the Norwich game, Jonjo Shelvey ran more miles than anyone else on the pitch..the equivalent of 10,000 metres.

 

If Gerrard is not capable of getting deep to help out, and then getting back up to be an attacking player, then he's past it.

 

No player is bigger than the club..which is why Carra never played in the final. I suspect Shelvey would have been more effective than Gerrard, and maybe now, the manager and coach will feel the same.

 

Are you serious? Gerrard was the only player that gave us something in a truly embarrassing first half and you think the slow Shelvey would have been more effective?

 

We were clearly carrying two bags in that midfield with Spearing and Henderson. Steve can still help out when playing further forward but that ball was never getting past the half way line if he didn't drop deep.

[KopOut]

The one malign influence that I'd like out of the club is Carragher. If he has any decency at all, he will do as Neville did and hang up his boots. I suspect he won't, in which case the club should pay out of his contract. I read a comment from Spearing recently suggesting that it took him over a year to pluck up the courage to speak to Gerrard, such was his awe of him -- Gerrard should be the one speaking to him. For too long we've laboured under the 'Mr. Liverpool' image of these two players, whose performances for several seasons now have not justified their entrenched positions at the club.

 

Gerrard out right; Carragher gone, Reina sold and the fee reinvested into the midfield. Starting over again, concentrating on youth, with Skrtel, Agger, Johnson, Lucas, Suarez, Carroll and - I maintain - Henderson, we've the bones of a good team.

 

We'll need a goalkeeper, and I think Doni can step up.

 

Love to see Stirling and Pacheco given games next season.

[Lario]

I'm assuming that the posters (you know who you are!) that use not starting Crouch in the CL final as a stick to beat Rafa with, are gonna start on Kenny for not starting with Carroll?

[Vivaldo]

When Rafa was blasted, I was completely against the hiring of the Roy... Whom many on here correctly predicted would be the worst manager in this clubs illustrious career. I, amongst many other supporters around the world, clamored for the job be given to one of our greatest players ever, and the man who gave us our last league triumph. Kenny would be the man that would enable us to cast aside our divisive opinions and bring us together. THIS was the man who would steady the ship.

 

As I sit here, I wonder where it went wrong. No doubt a combination of bad luck, poor officiating, and the Fuckwit Association have contribubited to a disastrous league campaign, but we can't overlook the poor signings and baffling team selections.

 

The major problem is that although money WAS spent, it wasn't spent wisely, and we burned 46mil on arguably the weakest midfield in the league, and after a season of coaching and management, we still don't have an identity.

 

We had January to sort out our midfield. Anyone who watched our matches could tell that that was the main problem. If you look at practically all our other positions, we seem to have a reasonably good side... But herein lies the problem, the midfield is the heart of the team. It enables the back four to play with more confidence, and supports the strikers in attack. Between Adam, Downing and Henderson this just doesn't happen. Thus the need for Lucas, or capable cover. Spearing does NOT constitute cover, as it is quite obvious that he is out of his depth at this level. The amount of times Lucas got (incorrectly) slaughtered for only passing backwards or sidewards is now laughable when watching any of the previously mentioned "players".

 

Apologees to Spearing, who has the heart of a lion, but he definitely lacks the attributes to succeed at this level, but who players like Downing and Henderson really should learn from.

 

But here's the problem, an injury to our anchor (Lucas) ensured that we were short staffed in the defensive midfield role, and the opportunity to rectify this issue was spurned. Gerrard was shoe horned into a position which completely nullified his effectiveness, and was forced to babysit a youngster with no heart, a free kick specialist without stamina, game intelligence, and the inability to lift a dead ball, and player who has the right mind set, but that's playing at a level way beyond him (not to mention a wide player who is incapable of doing anything except getting rid of the ball at the mere sight of an opposing player).

 

I will forever love Kenny, but I support Liverpool, and I want what is best Liverpool. At this moment, we should ask ourselves if having him around is in the best interests of the club. We need to look beyond sentiment. Kenny came in, lifted us from the gloom of Hodgson last season, and won us a trophy this season, so the ship has been steadied, but now we need to look to the future, which is what a lot of peoe are thinking right now. We need to move forward, we need to grow, we need to change the mind set of mediocrity and start installing the importance of winning.

 

And before anyone lables me a fucking cunt or sky generation fan, I'm sorry, but we as supporters do NOT owe anything to anyone. We support the club, it sits on our shoulders. We have a right and duty to question what we believe is incorrect. Managers, players, the board, etc. are merely custodians of an institute that we support. We in turn provide them with their livelihoods. No one is bigger than the club, but the club's size is dependent on the size of its support. I don't need to buy the replica kits and branded products, but I do. I, and many others, from all around the world spend millions each year for the privelage of supporting this amazing institute, so for some to insinuate that we are idiots for questioning decisions is indicative of a small, and ultimately stupid mindset.

 

We need the club to be the best it can be, and this means from the top down.

 

Good post totally agree

[Guest davelfc]

 

And before anyone lables me a fucking cunt or sky generation fan, I'm sorry, but we as supporters do NOT owe anything to anyone.

 

No we're chelsea are we? Manager-go-round classless shit of a club? I'm not saying I disagree with your post, far from it. You've quite articulately stated the obvious or summed up our season well, take your pick.

 

What do DO OWE our manager is another season. Ok, you may not be a 'sky generation' fan but like many on here you're so bloody impatient it's unreal. You've admitted we have a fairly decent team, I personally feel if we are clever in the transfer window this summer we already have the makings of a bloody good side.

 

The only way I would be happy for Kenny to go is if he decided enough was enough, but apart from that I'd like to see him given another year because it's been a tough one in many ways.

 

With a few signings, Lucas back and that extra europa football (laugh all you want but it is experience for our players) if we can convert those misses into goals, just a few of them then it should be a decent season.

[smilezzz]

No we're chelsea are we? Manager-go-round classless shit of a club? I'm not saying I disagree with your post, far from it. You've quite articulately stated the obvious or summed up our season well, take your pick.

 

What do DO OWE our manager is another season. Ok, you may not be a 'sky generation' fan but like many on here you're so bloody impatient it's unreal. You've admitted we have a fairly decent team, I personally feel if we are clever in the transfer window this summer we already have the makings of a bloody good side.

 

The only way I would be happy for Kenny to go is if he decided enough was enough, but apart from that I'd like to see him given another year because it's been a tough one in many ways.

 

With a few signings, Lucas back and that extra europa football (laugh all you want but it is experience for our players) if we can convert those misses into goals, just a few of them then it should be a decent season.

 

I think the impatience sets in because we fear that we will fall further behind, which we simply cant afford to do. We can trace our fall from grace to the season where we finished second and didn't build on from there.

 

I'm all for giving Kenny another season, if there were signs that the mistakes he was making would be rectified. Unfortunately, it didnt seem like it was. For instance, Downing and Henderson between the two of them have proved the sum total of f-all this season, yet they start the biggest match of the season at the expense of two players who have shown much more than them (Maxi and Jonjo).

 

It doesnt really matter that Maxi has one foot out of the door, he is a better player, and thus should start over a poorer one.

 

I'll admit to impatience, but there was a period prior to Jan where we could all see the effect of losing Lucas and Suarez (where we couldnt score to save our arses, and Adam's form plummeted) and every single person on here could highlight exactly what the team needed. Yet nothing was done to rectify our losses due to suspension and injury.

 

We could argue that no funds were made available, but the honest truth is that some people on here saw the truth of these players when we were linked to them, and got slaughtered for their opinions.

 

In essence, what I'd like to see is progression, as would any other supporter.

 

If Kenny can provide this, then all hail. If not, I'm fairly certain that he'd see this himself and walk. He is after all, a supporter.

Edited May 7, 2012 by smilezzz

[Guest davelfc]

Well I don't see any reason to change my mind, I think he deserves another season. I also believe the powers that be will think the same. Thankfully this is a decision that none of us can make.

[KopOut]

....... We can trace our fall from grace to the season where we finished second and didn't build on from there.......

 

We finished 2nd but should have won it. We were already falling.

[KopOut]

Well I don't see any reason to change my mind, I think he deserves another season. I also believe the powers that be will think the same. Thankfully this is a decision that none of us can make.

 

Amen to that.

[kalasoma]

I think the impatience sets in because we fear that we will fall further behind, which we simply cant afford to do. We can trace our fall from grace to the season where we finished second and didn't build on from there.

 

I'm all for giving Kenny another season, if there were signs that the mistakes he was making would be rectified. Unfortunately, it didnt seem like it was. For instance, Downing and Henderson between the two of them have proved the sum total of f-all this season, yet they start the biggest match of the season at the expense of two players who have shown much more than them (Maxi and Jonjo).

 

It doesnt really matter that Maxi has one foot out of the door, he is a better player, and thus should start over a poorer one.

 

I'll admit to impatience, but there was a period prior to Jan where we could all see the effect of losing Lucas and Suarez (where we couldnt score to save our arses, and Adam's form plummeted) and every single person on here could highlight exactly what the team needed. Yet nothing was done to rectify our losses due to suspension and injury.

 

We could argue that no funds were made available, but the honest truth is that some people on here saw the truth of these players when we were linked to them, and got slaughtered for their opinions.

 

In essence, what I'd like to see is progression, as would any other supporter.

 

If Kenny can provide this, then all hail. If not, I'm fairly certain that he'd see this himself and walk. He is after all, a supporter.

 

As would we all. However, every supporter's definition of 'progression' differs markedly. I think that not being in administration, not having to sell our best players to buy, and finishing with a trophy this season and a place in Europe, is a sign of progress.

 

Not to be confused with expectation or success however. I always expect to challenge for the title and a successful season, for me, would be winning the title. We've all waited a long time for that. Everyone is running out of patience. Wanting to sack a manager after his first full season just seems like we're panicking.

[xerxes]

I think he deserves another season. I also believe the powers that be will think the same.

I agree.

 

The most oft stated reason why he should go, that he is not getting the best out of the players, is also a reason why he should stay. Kenny has made mistakes, but he is also experienced enough to learn from them.

 

FSG see a trophy, three morale boosting Euro appearances and a Euro slot. Replacing Kenny would mean an £8m pay off, big losses on players moved on, and the financing of the new managers target list. That could easily total a £40m operation - with no guarantee of success.

 

Retaining Kenny for the length of his contract has two plusses.It gives FSG more time to learn and make the right appointment in two years, it also gives time to work through the "retro" love that still exists amongst our support, Kenny will have run his course, Rafa will be working elsewhere and everyone will be ready for a new era.

[mht1892]

Text off my mate last night 'reliable source'

Said that Kenny is moving upstairs and Rafa is coming back with Hyypia as his number 2, any one heard that ?

 

I don't believe it for one minute.

[fowler9]

im sorry but I think Kenny has to go as it clearly isn't working

 

genuineley don't think I've ever been as disheartened by on the pitch matters at the club, at least under the useless owl cunt we expected to be shite from early days but right now I look on the pitch on saturday and see us playing with a formerly world class keeper who is making fuck ups almost by the game, a 20million winger who doesn't try anything but backwards passes, our two best players being used in completely wrong roles and a 16million midfielder with a lot of potential used wrongly almost every game

 

then theres all the bollocks about the Suarez affair and looking back on it aside from the Carling Cup win this is far worse than the last two seasons considering the money spent, so thanks Kenny but I can't see it working out

[Baz1969]

Well I don't see any reason to change my mind, I think he deserves another season. I also believe the powers that be will think the same. Thankfully this is a decision that none of us can make.

 

My heart says give him another season but my head says no. The number one priority for whoever is manager next season has to be consistency and competitivness in the PL. Minimum required is that we must be seriously challenging for a top 4 spot all season. If we do that and maybe win or do well in cups I'll be relatively happy. A cup win by itself (like this season) is not good enough. We need to move on from being a cup team and always papering over the cracks. Consistency and competitivness in the league have to be no.1 target.

[kalasoma]

I agree.

 

The most oft stated reason why he should go, that he is not getting the best out of the players, is also a reason why he should stay. Kenny has made mistakes, but he is also experienced enough to learn from them.

 

FSG see a trophy, three morale boosting Euro appearances and a Euro slot. Replacing Kenny would mean an £8m pay off, big losses on players moved on, and the financing of the new managers target list. That could easily total a £40m operation - with no guarantee of success.

 

Retaining Kenny for the length of his contract has two plusses.It gives FSG more time to learn and make the right appointment in two years, it also gives time to work through the "retro" love that still exists amongst our support, Kenny will have run his course, Rafa will be working elsewhere and everyone will be ready for a new era.

 

Just to be clear, for you, Kenny was not the right appointment and the only reasons why he should stay, are twofold (1) to avoid paying the remainder of his contract and (2) correcting his mistakes. I can't tell whether you're being patronising with the 'retro' love comment, but it isn't important. You both damn with faint praise and hold a hesitant dislike for Kenny Dalglish, don't you?