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His transfer policy was a joke - enough budget to scattergun money at the market will sometimes get you a decent player. But nobody mentions the expensive flops (Veron, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson etc) and the whole string of shit keepers he signed after the Nazi left.

His Abderdeen? Annhilated in Europe by the Reds of course but all this crap about Ferguson breaking the Old Firm - I would argue Dundee United got there first (and were better in Europe).

And the Cup Winners Cup was always the easiest European trophy to win - how many times were Liverpool even in it?

Always interesting how Ferguson never left Old Trafford, he knew he had such a cushy number. Perez once said he’d never be offered the Real Madrid job because his European record (given qualifying every year) wasn’t good enough.

 

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33 minutes ago, Enrique Ponce said:

His transfer policy was a joke - enough budget to scattergun money at the market will sometimes get you a decent player. But nobody mentions the expensive flops (Veron, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson etc) and the whole string of shit keepers he signed after the Nazi left.

His Abderdeen? Annhilated in Europe by the Reds of course but all this crap about Ferguson breaking the Old Firm - I would argue Dundee United got there first (and were better in Europe).

And the Cup Winners Cup was always the easiest European trophy to win - how many times were Liverpool even in it?

Always interesting how Ferguson never left Old Trafford, he knew he had such a cushy number. Perez once said he’d never be offered the Real Madrid job because his European record (given qualifying every year) wasn’t good enough.

 

The Cup Winners’ Cup was more prestigious than the UEFA Cup. Pre-European ban, we had only won the FA Cup twice.

 

Your point about Ferguson not leaving Manchester United is a load of bollocks. Shankly and Paisley didn’t leave Liverpool until they retired. Did they have cushy jobs?

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12 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

The Cup Winners’ Cup was more prestigious than the UEFA Cup. Pre-European ban, we had only won the FA Cup twice.

 

Your point about Ferguson not leaving Manchester United is a load of bollocks. Shankly and Paisley didn’t leave Liverpool until they retired. Did they have cushy jobs?

You’re wasting your time mate, there isn’t even an argument here. Anybody claiming Ferguson is not one of the greatest of all time is just making a tit of themselves.

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17 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

The Cup Winners’ Cup was more prestigious than the UEFA Cup. Pre-European ban, we had only won the FA Cup twice.

 

Your point about Ferguson not leaving Manchester United is a load of bollocks. Shankly and Paisley didn’t leave Liverpool until they retired. Did they have cushy jobs?

I remember when Southampton played in the CWC. Most of the sides in the UEFA Cup would be in the Champions League these days. Much the harder competition. 
As already pointed out, Ferguson enjoyed a level of financial and political advantage with the Mancs, particularly in the 90s, that he wouldn’t have had elsewhere. 
It gets on my tits hearing he knocked us off our “perch”. We knocked ourselves off it and had been shite for years before Ferguson won the league.
 

 

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12 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

The Cup Winners’ Cup was more prestigious than the UEFA Cup. Pre-European ban, we had only won the FA Cup twice.

 

Your point about Ferguson not leaving Manchester United is a load of bollocks. Shankly and Paisley didn’t leave Liverpool until they retired. Did they have cushy jobs?

The UEFA Cup used to be called the EUFA Cup! I didnt realise until I looked at some of my old Anfield Reviews from the 70's.

 

The Inter Cities Fairs Cup, the fore runner to the EUFA \ UEFA Cup was organised by FIFA not EUFA \ UEFA. The name change only came about when EUFA \ UEFA essentially took over responsibility for the 'new' competition.

 

Not sure I agree about the CWC, Tony. In Europe, some did see it as a more prestigeous trophy which is strange when you consider most European national's FA Cup equivalent was frequently a midweek affair played by weakened teams. It also had a similar number of rounds like the then European Cup.

 

Apart from the InterToto Cup, it's also the only major European trophy that is now extinct.

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8 minutes ago, Enrique Ponce said:

I remember when Southampton played in the CWC. Most of the sides in the UEFA would be in the Champions League these days. Much the harder competition. 
As already pointed out, Ferguson enjoyed a level of financial and political advantage with the Mancs, particularly in the 90s, that he wouldn’t have had elsewhere. 
It gets on my tits hearing he knocked us off our “perch”. We knocked ourselves off it and had been shite for years before Ferguson won the league.
 

 

In 1973-74, we won the FA Cup and finished second in the league, runners up to Leeds. In those days, second place qualified a team for the UEFA Cup. In 1974-75, we played in the Cup Winners’ Cup, not the UEFA Cup.

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18 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

The UEFA Cup used to be called the EUFA Cup! I didnt realise until I looked at some of my old Anfield Reviews from the 70's.

 

The Inter Cities Fairs Cup, the fore runner to the EUFA \ UEFA Cup was organised by FIFA not EUFA \ UEFA. The name change only came about when EUFA \ UEFA essentially took over responsibility for the 'new' competition.

 

Not sure I agree about the CWC, Tony. In Europe, some did see it as a more prestigeous trophy which is strange when you consider most European national's FA Cup equivalent was frequently a midweek affair played by weakened teams. It also had a similar number of rounds like the then European Cup.

 

Apart from the InterToto Cup, it's also the only major European trophy that is now extinct.

I knew the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup was the forerunner of the UEFA Cup, but I didn’t know the UEFA Cup used to be called the EUFA Cup. However, I recall people calling the UEFA Cup the “Yoofa” Cup well into the eighties. It would have been nice to have won it in 1966 or 1997 and had the full set.

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The UEFA Cup was never officially known as the EUFA Cup.

 

The 'EUFA' thing was just an English thing - the proper name from its inception in the 1971/2 season was UEFA.

 

But in England we used sometimes called it EUFA....we definitely did use EUFA on our programmes as previously said in thread.

 

This programme from the 73 final which has the German and English translations on front is an example of how the continent used UEFA but in English it was EUFA.

 

 

zs6E_DeHN_4Tu-g5EayXm4mv7RfeAZtwE3Wg0wbC

 

Although that was not always case as shown by programmes from the very first final and if you look a the trophy picture itself used it clearly says 'UEFA'

 

13b519ece52f515d1d8a0238c8592eb9.jpg

 

1971-2-Wolverhampton-Wolves-Tottenham-Sp

 

 

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Considering he managed the best team in the country and pretty much dominated the league for 20 years his record in Europe wasn't anything special . Four finals (and two flukey wins) is a pretty poor reward in 21 attempts  

When Bob was winning European Cups Liverpool were genuinely feared throughout Europe , Ferguson's Utd never earned that title 

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21 minutes ago, Stickman said:

Considering he managed the best team in the country and pretty much dominated the league for 20 years his record in Europe wasn't anything special . Four finals (and two flukey wins) is a pretty poor reward in 21 attempts  

When Bob was winning European Cups Liverpool were genuinely feared throughout Europe , Ferguson's Utd never earned that title 

We had Villa and Forest as European champions in that time. It was by far the best league, and the CL didn't have anywhere near the competition it did when United were dominant.

 

On top of that, Bob took over a train that was running brilliantly.

 

If Bob is the barometer, where are you putting Ferguson in the list? Who's above him?

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1 hour ago, Tony Moanero said:

The Cup Winners’ Cup was more prestigious than the UEFA Cup. Pre-European ban, we had only won the FA Cup twice.

 

Your point about Ferguson not leaving Manchester United is a load of bollocks. Shankly and Paisley didn’t leave Liverpool until they retired. Did they have cushy jobs?

No comparison between thd UEFA and CWC. UEFA was competed for in those days by upcoming teams who had come 2nd. We are a prime example, winning both the league and UEFA in 73 and 76. 

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5 minutes ago, m0e said:

We had Villa and Forest as European champions in that time. It was by far the best league, and the CL didn't have anywhere near the competition it did when United were dominant.

 

On top of that, Bob took over a train that was running brilliantly.

 

If Bob is the barometer, where are you putting Ferguson in the list? Who's above him?

 

In terms of trophies won in England it's hard to go above Ferguson in terms of European competition there are quite a few above him .

Bob may have taken over a  brillinatly run train but if anything he left it even better judging by what Joe Fagan achieved in 83-84. In the same way Ferguson left one that was more Thomas the Tank Engine 

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35 minutes ago, Stickman said:

Considering he managed the best team in the country and pretty much dominated the league for 20 years his record in Europe wasn't anything special . Four finals (and two flukey wins) is a pretty poor reward in 21 attempts  

When Bob was winning European Cups Liverpool were genuinely feared throughout Europe , Ferguson's Utd never earned that title 

He was the perfect manager for English football. Knew exactly how to build sides to beat up shit teams managed by fairly tactically inept managers. He knew what was important and what wasn't. 

 

In Europe, not so much. Plus of course the refs weren't buried in his shitter. 

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8 minutes ago, Stickman said:

 

In terms of trophies won in England it's hard to go above Ferguson in terms of European competition there are quite a few above him .

Bob may have taken over a  brillinatly run train but if anything he left it even better judging by what Joe Fagan achieved in 83-84. In the same way Ferguson left one that was more Thomas the Tank Engine 

How many and who?

 

No issues with the rest of your post.

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24 minutes ago, DaveT said:

No comparison between thd UEFA and CWC. UEFA was competed for in those days by upcoming teams who had come 2nd. We are a prime example, winning both the league and UEFA in 73 and 76. 

I agree that the UEFA Cup tended to be the stronger competition, but the Cup Winners’ Cup was obviously seen as the more prestigious of the two, hence a team that finished second in the league and won the FA Cup, then competed in the Cup Winners’s Cup the following season.

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2 hours ago, Tony Moanero said:

The Cup Winners’ Cup was more prestigious than the UEFA Cup. Pre-European ban, we had only won the FA Cup twice.

 

Your point about Ferguson not leaving Manchester United is a load of bollocks. Shankly and Paisley didn’t leave Liverpool until they retired. Did they have cushy jobs?

Was it fuck mate , cup winners cup was fuck all by comparison.

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Just now, Alex_K said:

No it wasn’t. Ever.

Why then, did a team that finished in the UEFA Cup places in the league but also won the FA Cup, take part in the Cup Winners’ Cup not the UEFA Cup, the following season?

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33 minutes ago, m0e said:

How many and who?

 

No issues with the rest of your post.

In the modern era I’d say Mourinho for what he achieved at Porto and Inter, Ancelotti is another I’m not going to say Guardiola or Zidane due to having great sides when they took over Obviously if we are going further back then Paisley , Clough , Rinus Michels 

I think the point I’m making (probably poorly) is that although a truly great manger I just feel in Europe he wasn’t the dominant force you’d expect somebody who won 13 league titles to be. I think tactically he came up short, when Paisley took over from Bill he changed the way Liverpool played he realised that ball playing centre half’s and keeping possession was the way forward as far as Europe was concerned . Ferguson never changed he played the same kind of football at home and abroad .

Although 13 league titles maybe prove he was right to do so 
 

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8 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

Why then, did a team that finished in the UEFA Cup places in the league but also won the FA Cup, take part in the Cup Winners’ Cup not the UEFA Cup, the following season?

Numerous European countries quite literally did not even have a domestic Cup competition, while other teams quite literally declined the opportunity to enter at origination (Atletico; Monaco); it is something of a parochial eye that romanticises the glory of a domestic cup competition. CWC was eventually folded into & absorbed by the UEFA Cup - which should give a clue as to which was the more esteemed trophy to win. UEFA Cup became a rite of passage for eventual greats who won European Cup (ourselves; Juve; Ajax); CWC became a lead balloon that was scrapped entirely within 40 years of its origination.

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24 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Numerous European countries quite literally did not even have a domestic Cup competition, while other teams quite literally declined the opportunity to enter at origination (Atletico; Monaco); it is something of a parochial eye that romanticises the glory of a domestic cup competition. CWC was eventually folded into & absorbed by the UEFA Cup - which should give a clue as to which was the more esteemed trophy to win. UEFA Cup became a rite of passage for eventual greats who won European Cup (ourselves; Juve; Ajax); CWC became a lead balloon that was scrapped entirely within 40 years of its origination.

You haven’t answered my question!

 

Juventus finished second in Serie A and won the Coppa Italia in 1982-83. They played in, and won, the Cup Winners’ Cup the following season, then won the European Cup the season after that. Ajax finished second in the Eredivise and won the KNVB Cup in 1985/86. They played in, and won, the Cup Winners’ Cup in 1986-87.

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49 minutes ago, Stickman said:

In the modern era I’d say Mourinho for what he achieved at Porto and Inter, Ancelotti is another I’m not going to say Guardiola or Zidane due to having great sides when they took over Obviously if we are going further back then Paisley , Clough , Rinus Michels 

I think the point I’m making (probably poorly) is that although a truly great manger I just feel in Europe he wasn’t the dominant force you’d expect somebody who won 13 league titles to be. I think tactically he came up short, when Paisley took over from Bill he changed the way Liverpool played he realised that ball playing centre half’s and keeping possession was the way forward as far as Europe was concerned . Ferguson never changed he played the same kind of football at home and abroad .

Although 13 league titles maybe prove he was right to do so 
 

So, in the entire history of football, there are about 5 who you think are better than him?

 

Sound

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