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1 hour ago, Belarus said:

There’s some Everton levels of whinging and revisionism here.

 

“They were jammy having loads of players come through, but they weren’t as good as other players elsewhere”

 

”They had it all going for them on and off the pitch”

 

They created their own luck - isn’t bringing academy players through the pinnacle of generating success? They also built on this success and self-generated everything they earned, not like Chelsea and city. They were the top dogs and it was down to Ferguson. How many times he reinvented that team was ridiculous, and had them competing with the charity cases for years after they inherited their money.


I would say they were lucky in the same way Klopp has been lucky turning Trent, Robbo, Mane, Salah, Fabinho and Matip into world class players.

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2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

How is it whinging or revisionism to suggest that their "class of '92" was an extraordinary group of players?  Or that the comparative spending power of clubs became a more important factor during the early years of the Premier League. (I mean... Blackburn fucking Rovers?)

 

In the early 90s, it's undeniably true that some things fell into place for them; it's also undeniably true that it takes a very, very good manager to make the most of those circumstances and to build something to endure beyond that first flush.

Whinging maybe is the wrong work - detracting may have fit better.

 

Revisionism is dead right though for most of the detractors posts - you even wrote that he’d “won fuck all” in his first 7 years and prior to winning the league, which is factually incorrect. That is 100% revisionist.

 

He was a brilliant manager, who yielded brilliant results over a long period of time. It would be more apt to say it isn’t a coincidence they have won the same in the years since his departure as they did in his first 7 years - that would be  factually correct, and indicate that it isn’t as easy as he made it look. He is up there with the very best of all time.

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13 minutes ago, Belarus said:

Whinging maybe is the wrong work - detracting may have fit better.

 

Revisionism is dead right though for most of the detractors posts - you even wrote that he’d “won fuck all” in his first 7 years and prior to winning the league, which is factually incorrect. That is 100% revisionist.

 

He was a brilliant manager, who yielded brilliant results over a long period of time. It would be more apt to say it isn’t a coincidence they have won the same in the years since his departure as they did in his first 7 years - that would be  factually correct, and indicate that it isn’t as easy as he made it look. He is up there with the very best of all time.

Yeah it’s the longevity that sets him apart in some ways, still winning trophies as an old man who apparently wasn’t in the greatest of health, he won trophies right throughout his extremely long career, more than any manager in the history of the game. Not top tier though apparently. 

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4 minutes ago, redinblack said:

Whatever he did, he was a horrible cunt who chatted shit about our club.

 

fuck him, and the pony he rode in on.

 

 

Well this too. 

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He won what he won by being what he was, a nasty, vindictive, horrible bastard, but let's not forget a lot of utd fans wanted him gone in 89 and he may well have lost his job if it hadn't been for  Mark Robins saving him.

 

As we all know, the real success came about when Beckham, Butt, the Nevilles etc came through, add a top class goalie and the missing piece that was Cantona and there you have it.

 

Ferguson is the Luis Suarez of managers. If he's at your club you love him, if you're playing against him, you hate him and I hated him with a vengeance, but I have to admit a grudging respect for his achievements.

 

Having said that, I believe Bob Paisley to be the better manager.

Bob managed us for 9 years and we all know what he won during that time, trophies and respect he earned by being the great man he was, quiet and dignified, full of class, not a bullying shitstain like Ferguson. How the fuck he got knighted and Bob didn't is beyond me.

 

Just imagine what Bob would have won if he's managed us for 27 years.

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36 minutes ago, Belarus said:

Whinging maybe is the wrong work - detracting may have fit better.

 

Revisionism is dead right though for most of the detractors posts - you even wrote that he’d “won fuck all” in his first 7 years and prior to winning the league, which is factually incorrect. That is 100% revisionist.

 

He was a brilliant manager, who yielded brilliant results over a long period of time. It would be more apt to say it isn’t a coincidence they have won the same in the years since his departure as they did in his first 7 years - that would be  factually correct, and indicate that it isn’t as easy as he made it look. He is up there with the very best of all time.

OK, I got that wrong: he won fuck all for his first three seasons and never won the league for 7 seasons. 

 

I don't think it's revisionist or even that it detracts much from his achievements to say that conditions were favourable in the early years of the Premier League.

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14 minutes ago, Johnlj said:

Is he dead yet ? They can put him in a hole next to Thatcher.

 

Did she manage Odense into decline and close down the mines down in Denmark too?

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Harry's Lad said:

He won what he won by being what he was, a nasty, vindictive, horrible bastard, but let's not forget a lot of utd fans wanted him gone in 89 and he may well have lost his job if it hadn't been for  Mark Robins saving him.

 

As we all know, the real success came about when Beckham, Butt, the Nevilles etc came through, add a top class goalie and the missing piece that was Cantona and there you have it.

 

Ferguson is the Luis Suarez of managers. If he's at your club you love him, if you're playing against him, you hate him and I hated him with a vengeance, but I have to admit a grudging respect for his achievements.

 

Having said that, I believe Bob Paisley to be the better manager.

Bob managed us for 9 years and we all know what he won during that time, trophies and respect he earned by being the great man he was, quiet and dignified, full of class, not a bullying shitstain like Ferguson. How the fuck he got knighted and Bob didn't is beyond me.

 

Just imagine what Bob would have won if he's managed us for 27 years.

.

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He built 5 teams, 3 of which became the best in Europe (Messi and Barcelona aside).

 

To suggest anything other than him being up there as one of the best ever is ridiculous . His teams were a menace to play against, scored goals for fun, and attacked the shit out of the opposition.

 

As for the Europe thing, it's a like calling Guardiola, Klopp or Mourinho failures in Europe.

 

Total shite.

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1 minute ago, redinblack said:

He got knighted because Graham Stringer and a load of other Manc MPs put it to Tony Blair that he should be recommended for a  knighthood. I guess it was a populist thing of its time and Blair thought it wpuld be a good way for him to say he was in touch with "the people"

I remember. 

It just never sat right with me.

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8 hours ago, joe_fishfish said:

He was an excellent manager of course, but also possibly one of the luckiest in history. I'm struggling to think of another club in history that was able to field so many players they'd got for free from their youth system, it was fucking ridiculous how many international-quality players they had come through at the same time. Scholes, Beckham, Butt, the Nevilles, Giggs a few years before that. Even Pep's Barca side never had that many through at once, although obviously theirs were head and shoulders above Ferguson's.

 

Combine that with the club being the best in the country off the pitch at the time, perfectly positioned to take advantage of the new Premier League and Champions League revenue opportunities, and he had enough of a budget that he could basically sign whoever he liked. No club in England could compete if they wanted a player back then, ourselves included. Literally the only player who could have improved them who turned them down was Shearer, and thank fuck he did.

 

I know he made some brilliant signings and his motivational skills were obviously incredible but it's a lot easier to win titles when you've already been given half a class team for free and you're managing the richest club in the country by absolute fucking light years. Just ask Bayern.

Nicky Butt was shit, Wes Brown was shit, John O’Shea was shit and the two Nevilles weren’t much cop either really. As evidenced by what they did in their careers after leaving Man Utd. 
I think you have to give Ferguson a lot credit for turning them into viable players in a functioning team.

 

He was/is an absolutely horrible cunt though and rigged everything he could in his favour, especially the referees.

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3 minutes ago, Harry's Lad said:

I remember. 

It just never sat right with me.

I just saw it as a sign of the times. I wouldnt call anyone Sir, not even Bob.

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1 minute ago, redinblack said:

I just saw it as a sign of the times. I wouldnt call anyone Sir, not even Bob.

I used to love the way Rafa used to refer to him as "Mr Ferguson".

 

Anyway. Fuck him. Whatever he is or was, we can all agree that we hope he cries until he shits himself on Sunday.

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He got lucky when sky needed a new sheriff in town to promote their big investment and coincidentally owned 10% of the 26 years fairy tale story. 

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34 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Nicky Butt was shit, Wes Brown was shit, John O’Shea was shit and the two Nevilles weren’t much cop either really. As evidenced by what they did in their careers after leaving Man Utd. 
I think you have to give Ferguson a lot credit for turning them into viable players in a functioning team.

 

He was/is an absolutely horrible cunt though and rigged everything he could in his favour, especially the referees.

Gary Neville was an excellent fullback.

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8 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

OK, I got that wrong: he won fuck all for his first three seasons and never won the league for 7 seasons. 

 

I don't think it's revisionist or even that it detracts much from his achievements to say that conditions were favourable in the early years of the Premier League.

Fair enough. I just think if he wasn’t associated with those cunts, we would all give him the credit he deserves.

 

Trying to nullify the circumstances they did it under us like Everton blaming the European ban on not being the biggest club in the world now. Everyone was under the same set of circumstances.

 

And while they did get Giggs, G Neville and Beckham coming through, the others were no better than our peripheral finds of the similar time really - Butt and P Neville I mean there, and they were nowhere near as good when they moved on. It’s what indicates a great manager, like klopp here, getting a song from most of his players. In the 90s we had Fowler, Carragher, McManaman, Redknapp all come through, as well as the Butt type peripheral players such as Thommo, Matteo etc. We just didn’t have a Ferguson getting what we could out of them all, as much as I love Roy and the work he did trying to reinstate what souness had destroyed.

 

Ferguson was a cunt, but if he had been our manager, we wouldn’t even be discussing it - he would be up there with Shanks, Bob, Clough et al. It’s not even debatable.

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I've got absolutely nothing against him. He's no longer their manager so the rivalry ended when he left for me. 

 

Absolutely brilliant manager and I'd love to sit down with him and talk football. Even as a Liverpool fan you couldn't pass on the opportunity to have a one on one with him. 

 

Now he's the type of person sky should habe been trying to get to work for them rather than the gimps they have today. Imagine having Fergie doing Monday night football rather than thr gimps they employe today?

 

We never had a devine right to our success and we took the foot off the gas and became complacent which allowed Fergie and United to become the dominate force in English football. If he'd have become liverpool manager it would have been us dominating the 90s. 

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