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Nathanzx

Our coaching staff - how bad are they?

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our attacking game is a joke

 

we roll it sideways, pass it down the flanks where our wide midfielders usually receive it about 40 yards from goal then rolled back into the midfield who pass it sideways until it goes back to our wide midfielders who can't beat a man and have no pace who roll it back to the central midfielders etc etc. these attacks usually end with a hopeful cross into the box where we maybe have one man waiting or a Carra hoof that goes nowhere

 

Suarez and Gerrard show invention at times but it's completely spontaneous and of their own making - how many team goals have we scored? I can't rememeber any

 

 

oh and then our setpieces, jesus - we win lots of corners and do nothing with them, we never score from free kicks and we miss penalties and with all our so-called dead ball experts in the team

 

but the moneyball afficianados will be happy because if you look at the stats, we have good possession and huge number of corners etc. - what the stats fail to acknowledge is we do nothing with the possession or corner kicks, it's like we are set-up to do well on the stats side of things rather than in the scoreline

 

and let's look at the most damning stat, chance conversion =10%, lowest in the league, it's about the average you expect in the conference or a part-time league, what has been done about it? looks like very little as the theme repeats itself in every game, missed chance after missed chance

 

 

what the effing hell are our coaching staff doing? we must spend all our time in practise doing drills to hit the woodword or the first man at corners because we are phenomenal at those aspects to the game

 

and reina has been awful this season, is he being coached at all? the guy doesn't command his area anymore, i thought doni was a bit iffy for the goal today but was generally more commanding in his box than reina has been all season

 

can kenny coach the modern game? it seems not....does he just delegate to clarke? clarke has a good reputation and yes he can organise a team and get them defending well and we have achieved that to a degree but jesus even a fraud like hodgson can achieve that.....great coaches can make a team play good attacking football - what the hell do kevin keen and achteberg offer? our attacking and goalkeeping is getting worse!

 

the funny thing is that when kenny first came here he had maxi, meireles, suarez and kuyt all playing a nice fluid short passing game that tore teams to bits, fast intelligent interplay....then he sells meireles, drops maxi and buys a load of average english footballers - why fix something that wasn't broken? he has replaced a smoothly running ferrari with a ford escort at a huge cost

 

our coaching staff are not coaching, they are not making us better, they are making us worse, that on top of the awful signings is a damning inditement on the decision-makers

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Our form suggests that they are not very good at all

 

But at least we scored from one of the times we've hit the post at last, thats progress if nothing else. Every 28 times we hit the post now, at least 1 will result in a goal. Something to look forward to.

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Our form suggests that they are not very good at all

 

But at least we scored from one of the times we've hit the post at last, thats progress if nothing else. Every 28 times we hit the post now, at least 1 will result in a goal. Something to look forward to.

 

Yepper, at the rate we hit the post that is a goal every three games -- winning!

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our attacking game is a joke

 

we roll it sideways, pass it down the flanks where our wide midfielders usually receive it about 40 yards from goal then rolled back into the midfield who pass it sideways until it goes back to our wide midfielders who can't beat a man and have no pace who roll it back to the central midfielders etc etc. these attacks usually end with a hopeful cross into the box where we maybe have one man waiting or a Carra hoof that goes nowhere

 

Suarez and Gerrard show invention at times but it's completely spontaneous and of their own making - how many team goals have we scored? I can't rememeber any

 

 

oh and then our setpieces, jesus - we win lots of corners and do nothing with them, we never score from free kicks and we miss penalties and with all our so-called dead ball experts in the team

 

but the moneyball afficianados will be happy because if you look at the stats, we have good possession and huge number of corners etc. - what the stats fail to acknowledge is we do nothing with the possession or corner kicks, it's like we are set-up to do well on the stats side of things rather than in the scoreline

 

and let's look at the most damning stat, chance conversion =10%, lowest in the league, it's about the average you expect in the conference or a part-time league, what has been done about it? looks like very little as the theme repeats itself in every game, missed chance after missed chance

 

 

what the effing hell are our coaching staff doing? we must spend all our time in practise doing drills to hit the woodword or the first man at corners because we are phenomenal at those aspects to the game

 

and reina has been awful this season, is he being coached at all? the guy doesn't command his area anymore, i thought doni was a bit iffy for the goal today but was generally more commanding in his box than reina has been all season

 

can kenny coach the modern game? it seems not....does he just delegate to clarke? clarke has a good reputation and yes he can organise a team and get them defending well and we have achieved that to a degree but jesus even a fraud like hodgson can achieve that.....great coaches can make a team play good attacking football - what the hell do kevin keen and achteberg offer? our attacking and goalkeeping is getting worse!

 

the funny thing is that when kenny first came here he had maxi, meireles, suarez and kuyt all playing a nice fluid short passing game that tore teams to bits, fast intelligent interplay....then he sells meireles, drops maxi and buys a load of average english footballers - why fix something that wasn't broken? he has replaced a smoothly running ferrari with a ford escort at a huge cost

 

our coaching staff are not coaching, they are not making us better, they are making us worse, that on top of the awful signings is a damning inditement on the decision-makers

 

I'm not sure Clark is all that good as a defensive coach, all we do is drop deep and get numbers behind the ball (a bit like Hodgson), we don't press the ball therefore we dont win possession high enough up the pitch to attack quickly and when we have the ball our passing tempo is so slow teams are organised defensively and sometimes even look like they are getting impatient waiting for us to attack. I saw Kuyt press the ball a few times today against Villa and then turn around and wave his arms in frustration when he realised he was the only one.

 

It's also a bit of a myth that we have lots of shots on goal but have a poor conversion rate because most of our shots are from outside the area or from players under pressure, we don't actually create many clear cut chances, it's very rare you see a Liverpool player with space and time in the box.

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I'm not sure Clark is all that good as a defensive coach, all we do is drop deep and get numbers behind the ball (a bit like Hodgson), we don't press the ball therefore we dont win possession high enough up the pitch to attack quickly and when we have the ball our passing tempo is so slow teams are organised defensively and sometimes even look like they are getting impatient waiting for us to attack. I saw Kuyt press the ball a few times today against Villa and then turn around and wave his arms in frustration when he realised he was the only one.

 

It's also a bit of a myth that we have lots of shots on goal but have a poor conversion rate because most of our shots are from outside the area or from players under pressure, we don't actually create many clear cut chances, it's very rare you see a Liverpool player with space and time in the box.

 

Good post, agree with all of that. Problems go further than that of course, but what you are saying is spot on.

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can kenny coach the modern game? it seems not....does he just delegate to clarke?

He didn't coach before. Here, first time, it was Roy Evans, at Blackburn Ray Harford, at Newcastle Terry Mac and Celtic John Barnes, he has never done the training ground stuff.

 

I am not even sure what coaching qualifications he holds - does anyone know?

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Guest ShoePiss
He didn't coach before. Here, first time, it was Roy Evans, at Blackburn Ray Harford, at Newcastle Terry Mac and Celtic John Barnes, he has never done the training ground stuff.

 

I am not even sure what coaching qualifications he holds - does anyone know?

 

League Championships, FA Cups and League cups.

 

Twat.

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He didn't coach before. Here, first time, it was Roy Evans, at Blackburn Ray Harford, at Newcastle Terry Mac and Celtic John Barnes, he has never done the training ground stuff.

 

I am not even sure what coaching qualifications he holds - does anyone know?

 

He holds more qualifications than you could fucking dream of you disrespectful little fuck.

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Guest ShoePiss

You know what, you're virtually all cunts. I'm off downtown for beers and to watch a match where the supporters get behind the team from first to last whistle.

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At least when we had Pennant he made an effort to get deep down the wing before crossing or cutting in. He does that for Stoke now.

 

However, back to the coaching debacle. Steve Clarke is our head coach. Kenny is our manager and oversees everything. Since Sammy Lee left, we've been missing something. Why did he leave?? He brought a passion to his job, with a 35 year association with Liverpool that for me, was the difference. Clarke is a mercenary. Mercenaries quit when the going gets tough. I blame him for our poor run of form.

 

This picture tells a big story. Notice Kenny and Sammy celebrating, with Clarke standing off showing little emotion

 

Sammy-Lee_1933780c.jpg

 

From the Telegraph, 11:00PM BST 29 Jun 2011

 

"Lee’s representatives were thought to be discussing a compensation package with Liverpool after the 52 year-old was told by his erstwhile team-mate, the club’s current manager Kenny Dalglish, that he was no longer required.

Lee was described by Dalglish as a key part of his team as recently as May."

 

What happened there??

Edited by KopOut
more detail

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You blame Steve Clarke for our bad run of form and your back it up with evidence of a photo of him apparantly showing little emotion ..... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

Obviously has fuck all to do with Kenny any of this , obviously .... i blame the tea lady for it all as she recently changed from Tetley to PG Tips.

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for one free kick today we had 4 players being marked by 8 of them at the edge of their box. henderson and shelvey were both standing in line with gerrard who was hitting it in from about 40 yards out. Think it was kuyt, suarez, downing and maybe skrtel. we were still 1 nil down at that point attacking the kop.

 

what do they work on all week? it's certainly not free kicks or corners. the old "throw it in, see what happens" philosophy. Although we're supposed to have one of the best headers of a ball ever playing for us.

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League Championships, FA Cups and League cups.

Twat.

Ho,ho ho, oh the irony :wallbutt:

 

On the one hand you and others lambast, quite rightly, the insular nature of English football.

 

On the other you suggest that winning league titles, FA Cups and League Cups twenty years ago is all that you need to coach at the top level in 2012?

 

I rest my case.

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He holds more qualifications than you could fucking dream of you disrespectful little fuck.

This is a thread about coaching.

 

Footballing honours won, as a player, and manager (most of which I personally saw him win) and coaching qualifications for the 21st century are something quite different.

 

Now if your answer is "none" ( which I don't think it is) then say it. If you think that honours won twenty years ago are all that you need- say that too.

 

Asking what current coaching qualifications the manager of LFC has in a thread about coaching is far from disrespectful, it is about as relevant as it gets.

 

A number of managers (Ferguson included) were awarded their pro license on a retrospective 10 years experience rule. How that ten years is made up was unclear - Kenny does not appear to be on that list.Even then being awarded a license for historic retrospective service is not the same as qualifying for it by current study.

 

Ferguson,Wenger,and Mancini definitely do hold pro A Licenses,Di Matteo holds at least a B License.

 

If Kenny does not hold an A license after being out of the game for ten years, why not? It is the perfect way to keep abreast of the best in European coaching methods, and LFC is about excellence.

 

Disrespectful? Those that choose to judge the present by standards two decades old are doomed to remain in that past.It is the classic English game mentality which has been a millstone around the English game's neck for so long.

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Xerxes, no offence mate but what difference does it make what 'Licenses' he has ?

 

Football, the game, hasnt changed at all since Kenny was Manager last time round.

There's a clue there, MANAGER, not COACH.

 

Sometimes you talk a lot of sense but you have this annoying tendancy to be a really condescending dick.

 

No need for it.

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our attacking game is a joke

 

we roll it sideways, pass it down the flanks where our wide midfielders usually receive it about 40 yards from goal then rolled back into the midfield who pass it sideways until it goes back to our wide midfielders who can't beat a man and have no pace who roll it back to the central midfielders etc etc. these attacks usually end with a hopeful cross into the box where we maybe have one man waiting or a Carra hoof that goes nowhere

 

Suarez and Gerrard show invention at times but it's completely spontaneous and of their own making - how many team goals have we scored? I can't rememeber any

 

 

oh and then our setpieces, jesus - we win lots of corners and do nothing with them, we never score from free kicks and we miss penalties and with all our so-called dead ball experts in the team

 

but the moneyball afficianados will be happy because if you look at the stats, we have good possession and huge number of corners etc. - what the stats fail to acknowledge is we do nothing with the possession or corner kicks, it's like we are set-up to do well on the stats side of things rather than in the scoreline

 

and let's look at the most damning stat, chance conversion =10%, lowest in the league, it's about the average you expect in the conference or a part-time league, what has been done about it? looks like very little as the theme repeats itself in every game, missed chance after missed chance

 

 

what the effing hell are our coaching staff doing? we must spend all our time in practise doing drills to hit the woodword or the first man at corners because we are phenomenal at those aspects to the game

 

and reina has been awful this season, is he being coached at all? the guy doesn't command his area anymore, i thought doni was a bit iffy for the goal today but was generally more commanding in his box than reina has been all season

 

can kenny coach the modern game? it seems not....does he just delegate to clarke? clarke has a good reputation and yes he can organise a team and get them defending well and we have achieved that to a degree but jesus even a fraud like hodgson can achieve that.....great coaches can make a team play good attacking football - what the hell do kevin keen and achteberg offer? our attacking and goalkeeping is getting worse!

 

the funny thing is that when kenny first came here he had maxi, meireles, suarez and kuyt all playing a nice fluid short passing game that tore teams to bits, fast intelligent interplay....then he sells meireles, drops maxi and buys a load of average english footballers - why fix something that wasn't broken? he has replaced a smoothly running ferrari with a ford escort at a huge cost

 

our coaching staff are not coaching, they are not making us better, they are making us worse, that on top of the awful signings is a damning inditement on the decision-makers

 

coudnt agree more to slow in our build up play! the football is out of date.

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Kenny was teaching the upcoming coaches on one of those courses. The Cardiff manager said so before the final.

 

Indeed he has, perhaps if people were to do a little background check they would find that Mourinho, AVB & others all took their coaching licenses in Scotland. Where Ferguson & Dalglish were more than happy to give their time.

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You blame Steve Clarke for our bad run of form and your back it up with evidence of a photo of him apparantly showing little emotion ..... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

Obviously has fuck all to do with Kenny any of this , obviously .... i blame the tea lady for it all as she recently changed from Tetley to PG Tips.

 

Can you please back that up with at least a pic. My gut feeling is that the team would experience an improvement of form with a switch to PG Tips, on account of all that classic advertising. Dad, d'you know that piano's on my foot??

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Disrespectful? Those that choose to judge the present by standards two decades old are doomed to remain in that past.It is the classic English game mentality which has been a millstone around the English game's neck for so long.

 

Good. Then if we are to judge Liverpool by modern day standards at the club then we've been inconsistent winning trophy's intermittently playing football between the ridiculous & the sublime for the last ten years.

 

Given that criteria Dalglish has been no better or worse than the previous managers and should be given more time.

 

Pretty simple.

 

EDIT: Also twenty years ago and beyond Liverpool never, ever, ever had the classic English mentality.

Something else to bear in mind.

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Xerxes, no offence mate but what difference does it make what 'Licenses' he has ? Football, the game, hasnt changed at all since Kenny was Manager last time round. There's a clue there, MANAGER, not COACH.Sometimes you talk a lot of sense but you have this annoying tendancy to be a really condescending dick.No need for it.

I asked a question, that is all.

 

The relevance of the pro-licence is a matter of opinion. It is the standard now for managing in the top flight.The number of pro licence qualified coaches in Spain is three times the number qualified here, in France it is a multiple of two.

 

I totally disagree with you that coaching football and managing has not changed in the twenty years since Kenny last managed here, or even in the ten years since he last managed.

 

I agree with you about the distinction between manager and coach - Kenny has always been the latter at each managerial appointment. Redknapp and Ferguson too don't do the training ground work.

 

I asked the original question because it is a legtimate one to ask of someone who is in charge of a Premier League football club.

 

I understand that he is an FA qualified coach.It is a PL requirement that managers should be pro licence qualified but in exceptional circumstances that may be waived if they are studying for it. The list of those who qualified for a diploma under the "ten year rule" is an odd one, it includes the likes of Ron Atkinson and Jimmy Armfield.

 

Now it may be that Kenny does have his pro-licence, he has had plenty of time on his hands to do it - question answered. It may be that he has qualified under the mysterious 10 year rule - that's fine too, or it may be that he is studying for it.

 

Next year , we are back in Europe. After that I hope that Kenny will lead us into the CL. His managerial experience in Europe is quite modest. He has taken a job as one of the ten best paid football managers in the world. It is not unreasonable to expect that anyone in such a position is qualified to the highest contemporary standards (as he may be).

 

This thread asks about our coaching staff. How can any manager judge our structures and staff if he is not familiar with the best contemporary standards across Europe , those which we will shortly be pitting our wits against once again?Benitez, "A" Licence qualified, was unquestionably at the cutting edge of modern coaching and sports science - and didn't it show in our results in Europe?

 

Shoepiss thinks that honours won, and the tactics which won them, almost a quarter of a century ago are all that you need. I do not. Bovril, fish n chips on the coach on the way home and checking out what the Watney Cup results are might have been enough decades ago - it isn't anymore.

 

I admired Rafa's achievements with us, but I was not a Rafanista. I do credit him with rafolutionising our coaching and sports science methods - and personnel. In a thread debating our coaching, have we moved forwards, or gone backwards?

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