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were downing and henderson playing today???????????????????????

 

yes.

 

Doni, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Enrique, Henderson, Shelvey, Gerrard, Downing, Suarez, Kuyt. Subs: Jones, Bellamy, Carroll, Maxi, Spearing, Agger, Coates

 

Glad I could help.

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You blamed Steve Clarke for it all in the other thread now its the owners fault in your warped twisted mind.

 

Your are off your nut , your last 2 posts have been some of the highest class bullshit ive read on here.

 

So many of the excuses basically suggest that Kenny limps in every day, does a big shit and goes home, whilst more capable men do all of the work. They're usually far more offensive than those which state, correctly, that he's been an incredibly poor football manager this season.

Edited by TheDrowningMan

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Ok, to sum it up.

We are shit, we have half a squad of players who are simply not upto the job, and a manager who is simply out of his depth.

We have owners who will not trust kenny with another penny after he spunked £55m on Carroll and Henderson, not to mention Downing.

We have the whole footballing community laughing at us.

We have ageing players such as Kuyt and Maxi who will leave in the summer, and i think they will be joined by Reina and Suarez.

We are fucked unless we can bring in a world class manager who will tempt world class signings.

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Ermm theres no rules coming in about the nationality of a player. Its about home grown players.To qualify as home grown, a player will have had to be registered for at least three seasons at an English or Welsh club between the ages of 16 and 21.These rules are already in force.

 

For example Charlie Adam doesnt qualify as home grown.

 

What's the big deal about being home grown?

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same old same old. concede 1 from a couple of chances created, hit the woodwork, loads of corners, 20 attempts on goal, keeper pulls of unbelievable saves, handballs in the box but no penalties, player makes contact with suarez and commentator calls him a cheat, exact same thing happens down the other end it's a penalty. The argument that we're unlucky has long gone - we just don't have enough quality to beat even the most ordinary of teams.

 

Doni got punished for making a mistake from more or less the only thing he had to deal with. flanagan was ok but we seemed very reluctant to get the ball to him, carragher and skrtel dealt with everything apart from being able to get a block in on herd for the goal. That would have been exceptional defending if either of them could have done that. wasn't down to them anyway. henderson or shelvey should have been anticipating the pull back. I've been blaming carragher for a lot of our defensive woes this season. I was thinking we'd conceded far more when he's played than when it's been agger and skrtel but there's very little in it really. agger and skrtel have played 20 times at cb together in all comps conceding 20 with 7 clean sheets. Carragher has started 21 times at CB in all comps and conceded 24 with 5 clean sheets. So I don't think we can lay the blame at carraghers door. I think skrtel and agger just look a better pair. I certainly thought we were far better defensively with those 2 together and to be honest I'd still prefer those 2 over carra with either of them. The problem is we don't defend well as a unit, we give the oppo good opportunities to score and they usually take them. Enrique continued his poor form today. I suddenly realised in this game he can't pass the ball accurately more than 5 yards and he can't cross. he can carry the ball all day, he's strong as a bull, a willing runner and quick enough but the modern full back needs to be able to cross. we need another left back to challenge him for the position.

 

I was delighted to see Gerrard playing off suarez even if it was tempered a little by the prospect of shelvey and henderson behind him but I thought both were ok. Henderson probably had his best game until injury time when he overhit a pass out to the left and took a shot from distance when he should have got the ball wide for a cross. However, I thought a lot of his passing was excellent today and he even managed a couple of tackles. shelvey is very comfortable on the ball but he and everyone else ran out of ideas when we got to the edge of their box. I thought he was unlucky to be taken off. I'd have pulled kuyt as he was never gonna score. Gerrard and Suarez started brightly together but the telepathy isn't there yet. That cross that suarez flicked onto the post has also been met by owen and torres in the past. we need these two to hit it off quickly because they're our most creative players and our best goalscorers so getting them closer together is a no brainer for me. I don't expect they'll play together like this against blackburn or everton though or maybe they will - they didn't exactly hit it off today. kenny usually pulls the plug on a tactic that seems to work.

 

Dirk kuyt was the big villain today though. unlucky with one that may have been behind the line but missed a sitter from a gerrard shot cross. it was flashed at him but it looked harder to miss but he did. I say kuyt was the villain but I think carroll did himself no favours again today. you can say he was unlucky or he's young, should have started, needs games, lacks confidence but you could also say he's useless, has no game intelligence and it's totally unacceptable. he's had 2 or 3 chances when he's come on, one was a complete air shot from a corner when he's bull dozed a few of them out of the way, the other a header from a good gerrard cross that had to go across goal. The worst piece of play from him was late on and he's done well at the edge of the box to take the ball down, he's got a second to get the ball wide the way he's facing and he turns back into trouble and loses the ball. everything he does is the wrong thing. it would be funny if it wasn't us but you can see why we're being called a laughing stock. we paid 35m for this clown. This is why we're being laughed at. I was at Liverpool Villa on easter saturday 1999. we lost 1 nil to either a rigobert song og or might have been ian taylor. Sean Dundee came on that day for what was probably his final game for the club so pitiful was his display although we were so bad that day it was worth throwing him on to see if he was capable of anything. he wasn't and he was sold that summer. we took shovel fulls of shit for that signing. Now we're taking more fot Kenny paying 35m for Andy Carroll and his failure to look like he's worth a 10th of that price and the fact we're languishing mid table on route for our worst ever premier league finish and one of our worst ever league finishes full stop. If Carroll isn't bad enough we've also paid 20m for downing to do one thing per game. he got one good cross in today after leaving hutton for dead but as usual we failed to capitalised. if we had a decent striker he might make downing look like an assist king but that would be flattering. why wasn't he going at hutton all day? he's a yellow belly, play the percentages, pull out of 50 50's waste of a shirt. There was an article last year by prentice I think that said kenny got shot meireles because he pulled out of a tackle against united that led to gerrard being sent off in kennys first game. meireles may not have been a great tackler but he looks like cattermole compared to downing the fucking shite.

 

The positive thing was we ended the run of defeats. I thought henderson was decent in the centre with Gerrard off suarez. I doubt we'll see this in the next 2 games though because kenny keeps changing his team from week to week. How can Lionel Messi play every minute of every game for barcelona? sure he's the best footballer ever but he's human. why are we changing the team from one week to the next? keeping players fresh? that's fucking great. we can't win a game but the players are fresh. well when they get to edge of the oppositions why the fuck do they look like a drunk at a cross roads trying to figure out which is the road home? this doesn't look like the result of fit bodies, fit minds - it looks like the same old tired shit we've had to put up with for 20 years, just different underachievers wearing the shirts. Thank God for Danny Agger. his brief performance today showed what we've been missing - leadership. he dragged us kicking and screaming back into that game today. With him back we might even beat Everton next week as long as he can get the rest of them to play for the shirt as well.

 

Excellent post. I agree with everything bar the comments that Carragher and Skrtel dealt with everything. In the first 20 mins, crosses were comin in where a better team would have scored two or three.

 

In my opionion, Gerrard should be used right midfield now, certainly in a second half of games. He was inept in the first half; looked like he did against Newcastle, a half arsed attitude and performance. He was not effective in the hole behind Suarez like he needs to be.

 

It was a big risk not playing a holding midfielder and it showed at times but I thought Shelvey did very well. Henderson appeared to step up after Shelvey was subbed. Like mentioned, Henderson made some cracking long range passes. Both are our future; a bit like Souness had in mind for Redknapp/Hutchinson but whether they will get the time to settle into a pairing I dont know. When Lucas is back its a no brainer isnt it. Thats if he returns into the same player after such a bad injury. I hope its not a Mo Sossoko episode.

 

For me, players like Suarez and Gerrard arent getting dogs abuse, because the sky genereation like to put all the blame on the youngsters but they are equally responsible for our poor run and they too should look to raise their game.

 

Gerrard improved to a much acceptable standard in the second half which, can be said for the rest of the team.

 

Agger the game changer - who'd of thought?

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I'd be tempted to try Agger at center mid with Henderson in a 4231 with the 3 as Gerrard, Suarez and maxi/bellamy with Carroll the one up front and told to be in the box as much as possible.

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I'd be tempted to try Agger at center mid with Henderson in a 4231 with the 3 as Gerrard, Suarez and maxi/bellamy with Carroll the one up front and told to be in the box as much as possible.

 

Agger would be one of our best players no matter what position he was played.

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Kenny compared with Rafa, in terms of communication during the game, is like chalk and cheese.

 

It's only really the last few months that I've started to properly miss Rafa. Even when it went to shit you felt there was something of a plan, however tenuous. A poor run of form wasn't met with the "do the same failed thing and hope for the best" ball employed by the managers we've had since.

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It's only really the last few months that I've started to properly miss Rafa. Even when it went to shit you felt there was something of a plan, however tenuous. A poor run of form wasn't met with the "do the same failed thing and hope for the best" ball employed by the managers we've had since.

 

Really?

 

Every week it would be the same cries on here that we had no Plan B and that it was the same turgid tactics week in week out during his last season.

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I was thinking we'd conceded far more when he's played than when it's been agger and skrtel but there's very little in it really. agger and skrtel have played 20 times at cb together in all comps conceding 20 with 7 clean sheets. Carragher has started 21 times at CB in all comps and conceded 24 with 5 clean sheets. So I don't think we can lay the blame at carraghers door. I think skrtel and agger just look a better pair. I certainly thought we were far better defensively with those 2 together and to be honest I'd still prefer those 2 over carra with either of them.

 

 

the problem isn't just the goals conceeded when carra is in the team it's the fact we defend defend and attacks are started in midfield rather than from the back. agger brings more to the table than just keeping the ball out of our net and we have badly missed him. also agger is left footed so skrtel plays on his natural right side but has to move over to accomadate carra.

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I thought Henderson played well also, and Shelvey but ideally I would rather see one of them play, with a good DM in that role.

 

The problem with Gerrard at the moment, is the problem that Gerrard has always had e.g. he is ill-disciplined, as others have noted, as soon as we went a goal down he started dropping deeper, leaving Suarez isolated and the midfield crowed. It is well intentioned and he is obviously desperate to make things better, but he isn't helping at the moment.

 

If Johnson is fit for next week I would start him at left back, and Kelly or Flannagan at right back. Enrique is either out of form or lazy, but either way he needs to be dropped.

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I thought Henderson played well also, and Shelvey but ideally I would rather see one of them play, with a good DM in that role.

 

Amazing how people can view games so differently, I thought Henderson was utter shit and I was less than impressed that it was Shelvey that got the hook.

 

The problem with Gerrard at the moment, is the problem that Gerrard has always had e.g. he is ill-disciplined, as others have noted, as soon as we went a goal down he started dropping deeper, leaving Suarez isolated and the midfield crowed. It is well intentioned and he is obviously desperate to make things better, but he isn't helping at the moment.

 

The real problem with Gerrard, is that he's surrounded by players not even remotely as good as himself anymore.

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Amazing how people can view games so differently, I thought Henderson was utter shit and I was less than impressed that it was Shelvey that got the hook.

 

 

 

The real problem with Gerrard, is that he's surrounded by players not even remotely as good as himself anymore.

 

gerrard's days of being a central midfielder are behind him and we need to play him as far up the pitch as possible. we need players in central midfield who will win the ball as quickly and as high up the pitch as possible and then give it to the likes of gerrard to do as much damage as possible in the final third.

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The real problem with Gerrard, is that he's surrounded by players not even remotely as good as himself anymore.

 

He was prone to do this when he played alongside Alonso! It is an English problem in that tactically we (as fans) applaud someone running around, trying whereas he can do that in areas where he can hurt the opposition. Him being better than the other players is not an excuse, he is better than Carragher so do we accept him helping out in defence? Suarez is better, is he allowed to do Downings job?

 

It isn't about him being better than the other players, it never has been, it is about him doing the job his given position calls for.

 

 

I was pissed off with Shelvey being subbed as well, I thought he played better than Henderson (I just thought Henderson did okay). I still think Kenny has been found wanting tactically.

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He was prone to do this when he played alongside Alonso! It is an English problem in that tactically we (as fans) applaud someone running around, trying whereas he can do that in areas where he can hurt the opposition. Him being better than the other players is not an excuse, he is better than Carragher so do we accept him helping out in defence? Suarez is better, is he allowed to do Downings job?

 

It isn't about him being better than the other players, it never has been, it is about him doing the job his given position calls for.

 

 

 

well said.

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Guest TK-421
Really?

 

Every week it would be the same cries on here that we had no Plan B and that it was the same turgid tactics week in week out during his last season.

 

Only by people who never had a clue about anything ever.

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I thought Henderson played well also, and Shelvey but ideally I would rather see one of them play, with a good DM in that role.

 

The problem with Gerrard at the moment, is the problem that Gerrard has always had e.g. he is ill-disciplined, as others have noted, as soon as we went a goal down he started dropping deeper, leaving Suarez isolated and the midfield crowed. It is well intentioned and he is obviously desperate to make things better, but he isn't helping at the moment.

 

If Johnson is fit for next week I would start him at left back, and Kelly or Flannagan at right back. Enrique is either out of form or lazy, but either way he needs to be dropped.

 

Is this ill-disciplined thing still getting thrown round? It's fucking embarrassing. How do you know whatever Gerrard is doing isn't exactly what the manager is telling him to do. What isn't helping the team is that there aren't enough players of gerrards ability in the side. We lack pace throughout the team and the confidence is quite clearly shot. There really isn't much else to it.

 

We swamped villa for various parts of the game but the set up was wrong again. Dirk Kuyt is finished as a footballer yet again when Carroll is brought on the only out and out winger we have is subbed for him, pretty much removing carrolls best asset. Kenny has made some Benitez-esque bad decisions with his subs of late. I really hope they don't continue.

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Shelvey was offering nothing, Henderson was showing far more yesterday. Thought it was his best game for ages, he looked a good centre mid keeping the ball moving.

 

Agree with this, Henderson had a far better game than Shelvey, but he still needs to contribute more though.

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Shelvey started the move that led to Given's save (that was over the line) with a quick ball out to the wing, they both showed enough in the game to provide encouragement. Just makes the decision not to attempt to get in DM cover more ludicrous, Flamini could have been brought in for a nominal fee, or even loan and would have given us a bit more solidity.

 

I fucking hate going the match at the moment, I just moan for 90 minutes and then sit in silence on the way home! And I pay for this privilege!

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Yet again when Carroll is brought on the only out and out winger we have is subbed for him, pretty much removing carrolls best asset. Kenny has made some Benitez-esque bad decisions with his subs of late. I really hope they don't continue.

 

To me this is just lazy criticism, in theory you would think it could work that way, but for those who have actually watched both of them this season will know theory and realuty are two different things.

 

Carroll does not attack balls in the box, he stands there like a statue and most of his goals have come from balls played in early from a deeper and more central position than a winger getting to the byeline.

 

The defenders get the better of Carroll 99% of the time from crosses like that, simply because he has no movement and no anticipation.

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Is this ill-disciplined thing still getting thrown round? It's fucking embarrassing. How do you know whatever Gerrard is doing isn't exactly what the manager is telling him to do. What isn't helping the team is that there aren't enough players of gerrards ability in the side. We lack pace throughout the team and the confidence is quite clearly shot. There really isn't much else to it.

 

We swamped villa for various parts of the game but the set up was wrong again. Dirk Kuyt is finished as a footballer yet again when Carroll is brought on the only out and out winger we have is subbed for him, pretty much removing carrolls best asset. Kenny has made some Benitez-esque bad decisions with his subs of late. I really hope they don't continue.

 

First off. It may be a managerial decision, as you have suggested yourself Kenny isn't exactly excelling in this department at the moment.

 

But this has always been Gerrards problem, so it is a fair argument to suggest it still is. In my eyes, he began to drop far too deep and that was a hinderance. Against Newcastle he was one of three midfielders and yet he still often found himself beyond the three attackers leaving a huge gap behind him! I can't believe for one minute that Kenny would be advising him to attack with abandon as part of a 3 man midfield but drop deep and pick the ball up deep as a forward.

 

As I have said he is doing it for the right reason as he is desperate for us to win, but it isn't helping. And Suarez is just as guilty when he plays alongside Caroll he goes out wide, and drops deep and leaves Caroll isolated. We do not play as a unit.

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