wankers vs Athletic Bilbao

[Bogman]

Did anyone catch the bit where SlurAlex's "helpers" dropped the subs board on his leg?

Pissed meself.

[bouncebrigade]

Did anyone catch the bit where SlurAlex's "helpers" dropped the subs board on his leg?

Pissed meself.

 

It was brilliant. Although judging by his, shall I say, dramatic reaction I'd say he's been watching Nani too much lately.

[bouncebrigade]

[Gym Beglin]

Last night goes to show just how lazy and stupid footballers are if you don't manage them correctly.

Bielsa has taken, what, about 18 months to go from what they were to what they are now.

 

And what was the magic ingredient last night that made them that much better than United? Effort, intelligent closing down, intelligent passing, letting the ball flow, wanting to win by scoring lots of goals and playing without any fear whatsoever. Mangement of top players is down to three things in my opinion; getting them very fit, making them passionate about winning, and getting them to understand the economy of motion on the football field.

 

Passes were quick, first time, hit firmly. No raking long balls, it's aimless and tatty, there's no flow to it. Get it down, pass it quickly and then work out the next movement of the ball and try to get in a position where you can be a part of the next chain of passing, where you can find a bit of space and hurt the opposition. And that's that Bilbao did for 90 minutes, they enjoyed their football

United were huffing and puffing, the red faced Phil Jones labouring around the field trying to break up something he didn't understand, just like the rest of the United players, chasing. They chased when not in possession, whereas Bilbao didn't chase, they pre-empted thing and forced United to panic with the ball by making them be in areas they didn't want to be and not having a clear pass to get out of trouble. You don't achieve that by simply 'chasing', there is a science to it and Barca are also masters at it.

 

I thought last night was a massive embarrassment to Ferguson, as he's been there so long and the press consider him to be untouchable in terms of the best manager ever, literally, and then he has to sit through a 90 minute lesson at Old Taj Mahal which suddenly makes him look like he's been doing fuck all for the last 30 years in management. United were fortunate not to lose that 4-0, two jammy goals by United and a penalty that should have been given for the shirt pull on Llorente.

 

As for Bielsa, we don't deserve him, the fans don't deserve a manager like that. Players like Downing and Carroll ARE good enough, it's a fucking cop-out to suggest it's the player's fault time and again. To me, it can only be player's fault once. If the manager doesn't deal with it after that once, it then becomes the manager's fault IMHO.

Bollocking, a fine, drop him, promote him, talk to him, shout at him, do whatever you like to get through to him, if that doesn't work then you've got a problem with the player and need to replace him. I doubt that Bielsa's players have confidence issues, and that's not by chance, he inherited that team, he's just hammered confidence into them because he knows how.

 

Ironically, Rafa was very similar to Bielsa, but the board would never have backed Rafa to get heavy on some of the more, ahem, high profile players, shall we say.

[Sandman]

It hasn't been 18 months has it ? He joined Athletic this season.

 

Love the way his teams play the game. Should have been out of sight last night.

[The Acolyte]

Last night goes to show just how lazy and stupid footballers are if you don't manage them correctly.

Bielsa has taken, what, about 18 months to go from what they were to what they are now.

 

And what was the magic ingredient last night that made them that much better than United? Effort, intelligent closing down, intelligent passing, letting the ball flow, wanting to win by scoring lots of goals and playing without any fear whatsoever. Mangement of top players is down to three things in my opinion; getting them very fit, making them passionate about winning, and getting them to understand the economy of motion on the football field.

 

Passes were quick, first time, hit firmly. No raking long balls, it's aimless and tatty, there's no flow to it. Get it down, pass it quickly and then work out the next movement of the ball and try to get in a position where you can be a part of the next chain of passing, where you can find a bit of space and hurt the opposition. And that's that Bilbao did for 90 minutes, they enjoyed their football

United were huffing and puffing, the red faced Phil Jones labouring around the field trying to break up something he didn't understand, just like the rest of the United players, chasing. They chased when not in possession, whereas Bilbao didn't chase, they pre-empted thing and forced United to panic with the ball by making them be in areas they didn't want to be and not having a clear pass to get out of trouble. You don't achieve that by simply 'chasing', there is a science to it and Barca are also masters at it.

 

I thought last night was a massive embarrassment to Ferguson, as he's been there so long and the press consider him to be untouchable in terms of the best manager ever, literally, and then he has to sit through a 90 minute lesson at Old Taj Mahal which suddenly makes him look like he's been doing fuck all for the last 30 years in management. United were fortunate not to lose that 4-0, two jammy goals by United and a penalty that should have been given for the shirt pull on Llorente.

 

As for Bielsa, we don't deserve him, the fans don't deserve a manager like that. Players like Downing and Carroll ARE good enough, it's a fucking cop-out to suggest it's the player's fault time and again. To me, it can only be player's fault once. If the manager doesn't deal with it after that once, it then becomes the manager's fault IMHO.

Bollocking, a fine, drop him, promote him, talk to him, shout at him, do whatever you like to get through to him, if that doesn't work then you've got a problem with the player and need to replace him. I doubt that Bielsa's players have confidence issues, and that's not by chance, he inherited that team, he's just hammered confidence into them because he knows how.

 

Ironically, Rafa was very similar to Bielsa, but the board would never have backed Rafa to get heavy on some of the more, ahem, high profile players, shall we say.

 

So ironic it makes you want to cry. You know that with the Carling Cup win Kenny will be given more time money and possible contract extension, (isn't his contract only 2 yrs?) and I can see himi making the same type of signings. Even if he didn't do you honestly see him making our rabble play like Blibao? Not a chance. Was gonna start a poll as to whether we should ditch Kenny if Pep Gaudiola leaves Barcelona but we'd all know what response that thread will get.

[bouncebrigade]

I don't know why everyone all of a sudden wants to play like Bilbao. As superb as they are/were, the reason they play like that is because their team consists of 11 small, skilful Basques who have probably grown up together playing football (much like Barca). To drill a team of physical, English and Northern Europeans to play like this would be nigh on impossible. The only way we will ever play like that is if we have 7 or 8 of these type of players in our line up, which for obvious reasons is nigh on impossible. The closest we may have ever got tot his was when we had Alonso and Garcia playing, even then we were still very much an "English" team. Bilbao looked class last night but for all the love in we are seeing this morning let's not forget that over the last 30 years, their achievements (and probably their level of football) pales into insignificance compared to ours.

[Sandman]

Bilbao looked class last night but for all the love in we are seeing this morning let's not forget that over the last 30 years, their achievements (and probably their level of football) pales into insignificance compared to ours.

 

 

24 Cups and 8 League Titles is a fantastic record for a club that has the recruiting restrictions that they have.

 

Don't dismiss them as a small club, they're hugely storied.

 

The statement that they've all grown up playing together in this way is also incorrect. Until last season they were pretty much a direct long ball type team, this change in philosophy has come about with Marcelo Bielsa. Over the course of half a season.

 

It really is a fantastic achievement.

[bouncebrigade]

24 Cups and 8 League Titles is a fantastic record for a club that has the recruiting restrictions that they have.

 

Don't dismiss them as a small club, they're hugely storied.

 

The statement that they've all grown up playing together in this way is also incorrect. Until last season they were pretty much a direct long ball type team, this change in philosophy has come about with Marcelo Bielsa. Over the course of half a season.

 

It really is a fantastic achievement.

 

I never said they were a small club or meant to sound like I thought they were. I have huge respect for them, have been in their stadium and would count them as "my Spanish team". Also agreed re their achievements given their Basque only policy.

 

All I am saying is that of all the sticks you can beat Kenny/the current team with, not playing like Bilbao should not be one of them for the reasons stated above.

[moof]

So ironic it makes you want to cry. You know that with the Carling Cup win Kenny will be given more time money and possible contract extension, (isn't his contract only 2 yrs?) and I can see himi making the same type of signings. Even if he didn't do you honestly see him making our rabble play like Blibao? Not a chance. Was gonna start a poll as to whether we should ditch Kenny if Pep Gaudiola leaves Barcelona but we'd all know what response that thread will get.

 

If only we didn't win the carling cup then we could have fucked Kenny off and moulded ourselves on Bilbao. Damn that carling cup win, damn it to hell.

[KevieG]

the red faced Phil Jones labouring around the field trying to break up something he didn't understand

 

Nice line.

 

 

On the general theme of your post, I think Kenny deserves more time.

 

Lets not forget he has coached title winning teams before, including the 87/88 one which played the best football of any British team in the last 30 years.

[Sandman]

All I am saying is that of all the sticks you can beat Kenny/the current team with, not playing like Bilbao should not be one of them for the reasons stated above.

 

 

I think what last night has shown (for those that insist otherwise) is that it's possible to play aggressive attacking football without spending a shed load of cash to assemble a team and that great coaching can get them playing well quickly.

 

Also that if you have money to spend then you need to spend it appropriately, if your vision is to play direct football with a big striker upfront then by all means purchase the players to do so, as a coach / manager that's your prerogative.

 

But then coach your team well enough so that they do your vision justice.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Sandman

[bouncebrigade]

I think what last night has shown (for those that insist otherwise) is that it's possible to play aggressive attacking football without spending a shed load of cash to assemble a team and that great coaching can get them playing well quickly.

 

Also that if you have money to spend then you need to spend it appropriately, if your vision is to play direct football with a big striker upfront then by all means purchase the players to do so, as a coach / manager that's your prerogative.

 

But then coach your team well enough so that they do your vision justice.

 

I don't think it is possible, no matter who the coach is, to get an English team playing this type of football, i.e. short, slick passing with quick, incisive movement. It is just not in their DNA. For reference to this, see the biennial slaughter of England at Euros/WC. English teams can play good stuff, no question, but it is based more on a physical element with lots of crosses and pressure, rather than stringing 30 passes together before playing in an overlapping full back.

 

Anyway, good luck to Bilbao. They deserve everything they get.

[Jairzinho]

I don't think it is possible, no matter who the coach is, to get an English team playing this type of football, i.e. short, slick passing with quick, incisive movement. It is just not in their DNA. For reference to this, see the biennial slaughter of England at Euros/WC. English teams can play good stuff, no question, but it is based more on a physical element with lots of crosses and pressure, rather than stringing 30 passes together before playing in an overlapping full back.

 

Anyway, good luck to Bilbao. They deserve everything they get.

 

An English team doesn't have to contain lots of English players. Thank fuck.

[Quixotica]

I don't think it is possible, no matter who the coach is, to get an English team playing this type of football, i.e. short, slick passing with quick, incisive movement. It is just not in their DNA. For reference to this, see the biennial slaughter of England at Euros/WC. English teams can play good stuff, no question, but it is based more on a physical element with lots of crosses and pressure, rather than stringing 30 passes together before playing in an overlapping full back.

 

Anyway, good luck to Bilbao. They deserve everything they get.

 

 

An English team can't play 'Pass & Move'? Err...

[mattyq]

Fuck, there's some shite on this thread.

Kenny's first team in the 80s were amazingly good. They were magnificent and the epitomy of pass and move.

Kenny get's it, totally.

This is his first year back.

A bit of time and he'll have us playing some great stuff again.

Believe

[DooooodekNo5]

Fuck, there's some shite on this thread.

Kenny's first team in the 80s were amazingly good. They were magnificent and the epitomy of pass and move.

Kenny get's it, totally.

This is his first year back.

A bit of time and he'll have us playing some great stuff again.

Believe

 

People are just fed up and frustrated with us always playing catch up and throwing money away time and time and time again .......

 

We all love Kenny and it was great to win the League Cup but that doesn't hide the fact that we really are not that good and hes made mistakes.

 

Its hard to keep believing were going to get back to where we belong even with KK in charge , all this next season bollocks year after year ...

 

If we had spent nothing last summer and played the kids instead of Adam, Henderson , Downing and Carroll (even though he was bought earlier) we wouldn't be doing any worse than we are now in the league which is hard to put into words ......

 

This seasons shortcomings are going to put Kenny under massive pressure going into and during next season , i obviously hope it all comes good but cant help but doubt that it will.

[Croque Monsieur]

Last night goes to show just how lazy and stupid footballers are if you don't manage them correctly.

Bielsa has taken, what, about 18 months to go from what they were to what they are now.

 

And what was the magic ingredient last night that made them that much better than United? Effort, intelligent closing down, intelligent passing, letting the ball flow, wanting to win by scoring lots of goals and playing without any fear whatsoever. Mangement of top players is down to three things in my opinion; getting them very fit, making them passionate about winning, and getting them to understand the economy of motion on the football field.

 

They're not from the UK so they have no idea how they're supposed to behave at Old Trafford? (i.e. rollover and get arse-fucked).

[Evil_Ways]

I don't know why everyone all of a sudden wants to play like Bilbao. As superb as they are/were, the reason they play like that is because their team consists of 11 small, skilful Basques who have probably grown up together playing football (much like Barca). To drill a team of physical, English and Northern Europeans to play like this would be nigh on impossible. The only way we will ever play like that is if we have 7 or 8 of these type of players in our line up, which for obvious reasons is nigh on impossible. The closest we may have ever got tot his was when we had Alonso and Garcia playing, even then we were still very much an "English" team. Bilbao looked class last night but for all the love in we are seeing this morning let's not forget that over the last 30 years, their achievements (and probably their level of football) pales into insignificance compared to ours.

 

The reason Bilbao are playing like they are, is Marcelo Bielsa and his philosophy about football. They certainly have alot of very skilled players to help him out. But he's had his teams playing that type of high intensity, attacking football for over a decade.

 

It's certainly no guarantee for success though, as with Argentina in 02 for example, they played the shit out of the teams in their group, but failed to progress despite absolutely dominating play. But it is a joy to watch. And in a league campaign that philosophy and consistancy is more likely to pay off than in knock out competitions.

[Redexile]

So ironic it makes you want to cry. You know that with the Carling Cup win Kenny will be given more time money and possible contract extension, (isn't his contract only 2 yrs?) and I can see himi making the same type of signings. Even if he didn't do you honestly see him making our rabble play like Blibao? Not a chance. Was gonna start a poll as to whether we should ditch Kenny if Pep Gaudiola leaves Barcelona but we'd all know what response that thread will get.

 

Fuckin Dalglish, worra cunt. Having the audacity to send a side out to win a trophy. So where do Athletic sit in La Liga these days?

Maybe you should start that poll and get the treatment it deserves.

[MLB]

The one English team that play that way are Arsenal.

[Stu Monty]

Last night goes to show just how lazy and stupid footballers are if you don't manage them correctly.

Bielsa has taken, what, about 18 months to go from what they were to what they are now.

 

And what was the magic ingredient last night that made them that much better than United? Effort, intelligent closing down, intelligent passing, letting the ball flow, wanting to win by scoring lots of goals and playing without any fear whatsoever. Mangement of top players is down to three things in my opinion; getting them very fit, making them passionate about winning, and getting them to understand the economy of motion on the football field.

 

Passes were quick, first time, hit firmly. No raking long balls, it's aimless and tatty, there's no flow to it. Get it down, pass it quickly and then work out the next movement of the ball and try to get in a position where you can be a part of the next chain of passing, where you can find a bit of space and hurt the opposition. And that's that Bilbao did for 90 minutes, they enjoyed their football

United were huffing and puffing, the red faced Phil Jones labouring around the field trying to break up something he didn't understand, just like the rest of the United players, chasing. They chased when not in possession, whereas Bilbao didn't chase, they pre-empted thing and forced United to panic with the ball by making them be in areas they didn't want to be and not having a clear pass to get out of trouble. You don't achieve that by simply 'chasing', there is a science to it and Barca are also masters at it.

 

I thought last night was a massive embarrassment to Ferguson, as he's been there so long and the press consider him to be untouchable in terms of the best manager ever, literally, and then he has to sit through a 90 minute lesson at Old Taj Mahal which suddenly makes him look like he's been doing fuck all for the last 30 years in management. United were fortunate not to lose that 4-0, two jammy goals by United and a penalty that should have been given for the shirt pull on Llorente.

 

As for Bielsa, we don't deserve him, the fans don't deserve a manager like that. Players like Downing and Carroll ARE good enough, it's a fucking cop-out to suggest it's the player's fault time and again. To me, it can only be player's fault once. If the manager doesn't deal with it after that once, it then becomes the manager's fault IMHO.

Bollocking, a fine, drop him, promote him, talk to him, shout at him, do whatever you like to get through to him, if that doesn't work then you've got a problem with the player and need to replace him. I doubt that Bielsa's players have confidence issues, and that's not by chance, he inherited that team, he's just hammered confidence into them because he knows how.

 

Ironically, Rafa was very similar to Bielsa, but the board would never have backed Rafa to get heavy on some of the more, ahem, high profile players, shall we say.

 

Eh? Come again?

[moof]

The one English team that play that way are Arsenal.

 

Swansea do it better than even Arsenal imo.

[bossy]

 

Eh? Come again?

 

Got to agree with this.

[chauncey]

Loads of Bilbao fans in town yesterday and today.