Rafa

[RedKnight]

I don't think Rafa is the answer to any of our current questions.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

You binary cunt! ha ha ha quality NV

 

One of my prouder moments, it must be said!

[Guest alantkayll]

He'll never be manager under FSG.

[TheHowieLama]

 

[elvis]

Meaningless to actually win something, you know a trophy, something we have not won at this club since 2006 and something we have only won two of the since 2003 even if the best manager in the universe managed us for 6 years.

 

Did you participate in Moyes party where they celebrated their trophy for finishing 4th in 2005?

 

Who cares about winning as long as we are allowed to participate, thats the spirit right there?

 

Does it really matter if we win the league or now, 4th is enough to get the chance to qualify for the CL you know, who cares about winning?

 

 

Listen mate , there are only 2 trophies I am even remotely interested in winning - the league and the european cup. If we did well in the league and the european cup , then one of the other 2 would be a nice day out and nothing more .

 

If you are happy being the sheffield wednesday of this century then so be it.

[TheHowieLama]

He'll never be manager under FSG.

 

HEY, hhheeeyyy, wtf tony?

[stringvest]

Listen mate , there are only 2 trophies I am even remotely interested in winning - the league and the european cup. If we did well in the league and the european cup , then one of the other 2 would be a nice day out and nothing more .

 

If you are happy being the sheffield wednesday of this century then so be it.

 

You might want to consult wikipedia and see what Kenny won in his career with Liverpool before you started supporting us.

[moof]

Fuck off all of you, this thread is a fucking embarrassment. From both sides. Those who are demeaning Rafa's achievements are just as pathetic as those who are calling for him to oust Kenny. Have some fucking respect.

[moof]

He'll never be manager under FSG.

 

Rightly so. He's had his time.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Kenny won't be manager for long unless he drastically improves our performances.

 

The reason being that he's not FSG's man. He is our man. We appointed him.

 

If we finish sixth, again, I cannot imagine they'll be happy.

 

Though, I cannot imagine there any Liverpool fans not fully behind him. Pissed off, but behind him.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Rightly so. He's had his time.

 

Unfortunately, that time was tainted by the worst ownership situation this club has ever faced. *shrug*

[elvis]

You might want to consult wikipedia and see what Kenny won in his career with Liverpool before you started supporting us.

 

I was supporting US , long before Kenny started playing for us.

For what it's worth.

[moof]

Unfortunately, that time was tainted by the worst ownership situation this club has ever faced. *shrug*

 

You're right, it was unfortunate.

[TheHowieLama]

For what it's worth.

 

somethin happening here...

[stringvest]

I was supporting US , long before Kenny started playing for us.

For what it's worth.

 

uh-huh? thankyouverymuch

[ngogswilly]

elvis is still in the building folks!

[elvis]

uh-huh? thankyouverymuch

 

The problem on here is that everyone wants to be smarter than everyone else.

 

Sarcasm , cryptic clues and silly little smart arse comments aren't always necessary . I dont want to spend all night wondering if someone is taking the piss or not .

People , just say whats on your minds - its not hard.

[elvis]

elvis is still in the building folks!

 

Dont think Elvis pronounced the k when he said that. Could be wrong though.

[elvis]

Where's that Norwegian twat gone anyway ?

[Coro]

Most of our support is manically depressed.

 

We should start handing out vitamin D on a match day.

[Wor Horse]

For what it's worth:

 

Rafa's first season: 22nd January 2005

 

4 Everton +3 44

5 Liverpool +11 37

 

Kenny's first full season: 22nd January 2012

 

4 Chelsea 15 41

5 Arsenal 7 36

6 Newcastle 2 36

7 Liverpool 4 35

 

Not much between the two, both in the semi final of the league cup at this stage of the season as well.

 

Only difference is that Kenny wasn't given a start in the Champions League to compare that.

 

Really quite stupid comparing transfers etc and saying would he have spent this and that. It can be twisted to fuck i.e. Coates, Enrique and Bellamy cost the same as Babel or Arbeloa, Reina, Skrtel, Agger cost the same as Downing, it can be twisted to suit any agenda.

 

When Kenny gets 5 years then you can compare him with Rafa.

 

People seem to forget the mistakes Rafa made in that first season, losses against Palace, Southampton, Burnley etc. Replacing a star Owen (Torres) with a flop Nunez (Carroll). He also lost players to injury like Kenny has which led to Mellor getting chances.

 

Fact is, Hicks and Gilete have fucked us over completely, they have absolutely ruined us and it'll take another big fight to get us back there. Like I said, Rafa could have signed X or Y when we had no money but that was because players wanted to play in the CL, we might have money now but it's hard graft convincing players to sign for Liverpool without european footy.

 

Give Kenny time, he could end the season doing something Rafa failed to do in the 4 of the 6 years he was here, win a trophy.

 

Judge him in May like you did Benitez.

[Juan Galonso]

No it isnt. Regardless of whether Kenny has spent £100m is neither here nor there. The fact is that Kenny, just like Rafa was in 04/05, is trying to build a team worthy of breaking into the top 4 and then onto win the league. There was always going to be bumps along the way, just like there was then and just like there is no now. Nothing was going to be perfect.

 

He needs time, reminiscing over Rafa aint going to change that.

 

Far be it from me to defend Rafa but Rafa only WISHES he had the backing in his first season Kenny has had so far. Chalk and cheese Robbie. It is the first time I have heard 100m of the clubs money spent in a calendar year spent as neither here nor there as well. You would be laughing at Mancini if Man City were 7th after he spent his first 100m there.

 

I would have slaughtered Rafa for spending 35m and 20m on Carroll and Downing respectively. The rules don't change because it is Kenny Dalglish. He should be judged the same.

[stringvest]

Most of our support is manically depressed.

 

We should start handing out vitamin D on a match day.

 

haha! Dr Coro has diagnosed it right.

[stringvest]

The problem on here is that everyone wants to be smarter than everyone else.

 

Sarcasm , cryptic clues and silly little smart arse comments aren't always necessary . I dont want to spend all night wondering if someone is taking the piss or not .

People , just say whats on your minds - its not hard.

 

I was just questioning your reasoning re Sheffield Wednesday.

[Joe Le Taxi]

It was worth it though as your response was BRILLIANT.

 

 

 

 

You actually think I give a fuck whether people take my opinions on him seriously or not ?, surely not. My comment is perfectly in keeping with the tedious,repetitive, tiresome opinions that everyone else has shared. Best of luck with that hoping though, I really mean that.

 

I thought the post was about Lance to be fair...

 

Anyway onto Rafa.

 

First of all, the comments about Rafa's first season and Kenny's are hardly the best comparison to make. Rafa came in with Champions League football whereas Kenny does not. You can argue that Rafa's actions towards the end of his reign contributed to that and you may be correct but under Rafa in 04/05 we had a thinner squad, with less quality that was stretched to its limits. Kenny however has a squad he has been allowed to build from the start with a lot of financial backing whereas even under Moores we were pretty broke.

 

Rafa had Ged's squad with a few adjustments and domestically we were poor as Code points out but in my opinion, he has gone about it all wrong. Our target at the start of that season was Champions League football. We hit that target by winning the competition which covered up for our poor league form. Kenny however has had one competition to target with money to buy who he wants. Have we underperformed so far? Yes. Could we do better? Definitely. Have all of our transfer acquisitions over the past 12 months worked out? No but neither did all of Rafa's during his first year.

 

For every Xabi and Garcia there was a Nunez or Josemi. However look at the prices we paid for these players and that will show you that even from the start Rafa had his hands tied. Throughout this thread I've seen names such as Voronin, Degen El Zhar, Dossena, Pennant etc named to dirty Rafa's legacy. However even then Rafa managed to buy brilliantly. Torres, Masch, Agger, Skrtel, Reina, Sissoko, Crouch, Bellamy, Johnson are all amazing players Rafa brought in.

 

One thing that worries me though is that those slagging off Rafa are either forgetting (I don't blame you, I've tried to block it from my mind as well) or refusing to name Tom Hicks & George Gillett because it fucks up any Rafa argument. They destroyed this club and Rafa was distracted from managing us to fight them, something which I thank him for. They ripped the heart and soul out of this club and even then Rafa managed to put together a title challenge whilst the club around him fell to the ground. For that he deserves our respect.

 

Thankfully, Kenny has had easier owners to work with which is why I think it's hard to compare his and Rafa's reigns. Just look at the players Rafa wanted to buy over the years, players we missed out on due to the ineptitude of Parry & Moores or the tightness of H&G. Villa, Silva, Jovetic, Alves and Simao are all top players we could have had, players Rafa wanted. But due to the circumstances (and in Rafa's very words) we had to settle with second, sometimes third choice targets.

 

On the other hand, Kenny has had great owners to work with, owners who have backed him with money and more importantly, given him their unwavering support. Could Rafa have done better under FSG than H&G? I think that is an obvious decision. Even now I believe he would have spent the money better. His tactics were questionable at times but so are Kenny's all managers have their methods and I believe that Rafa's worked. I am not saying Kenny is a failure or his methods do not work because that is a lie. He rejuvenated the club when he came back and I love the man. It's just that tactically, Rafa is a superior manager to him.

 

The one thing that isn't surprising though is the vitrol on both sides of this debate. Will he come back? It's uncertain but he wants to come back. He loves the club but I would not replace Kenny for him, not at the moment anyway.

 

Rafa made many mistakes, mistakes he has admitted to but even the best of us make mistakes. However the revisionism in this thread is unacceptable and it is obvious that most of us cannot talk about Rafa civilly. Move on and if he does come back, we can continue these debates but until that happens there is no point going over the same old ground.