Jump to content
  • Sign up for free and receive a month's subscription

    You are viewing this page as a guest. That means you are either a member who has not logged in, or you have not yet registered with us. Signing up for an account only takes a minute and it means you will no longer see this annoying box! It will also allow you to get involved with our friendly(ish!) community and take part in the discussions on our forums. And because we're feeling generous, if you sign up for a free account we will give you a month's free trial access to our subscriber only content with no obligation to commit. Register an account and then send a private message to @dave u and he'll hook you up with a subscription.

Iran Accuses US and Israel


VladimirIlyich
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 537
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Guest Numero Veinticinco

Yeah, if they didn't stop killing loads of kids, kicking the flying fuck out of people who say anything about them, shooting at children who throw stones at them, and killing more than 100 Palestinians for every 1 of them, they'd be properly fucked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It will go on until, one day, the Israelis lose a war. Any guesses what might happen to the Jews at that point? I doubt that it will be very nice.

 

What about what is happening to the Palestinians right now? Being ethnically cleansed. The likelihood of them being wiped out is pretty low, the likelihood of them being driven out and back to the places where they really came from, pretty high. Us Europeans were more better at wiping away the Jews for a century.

 

Since people like to throw this one, thought I'd clear this up a bit.

 

This scheme is very misleading, the guy who made it did a pretty good job of propaganda. The 1946 map doesn't mean anything, it was never in a partition plan. It's just a map depicting Jewish settlements. White marks areas of Jewish populations and green marks areas where there are no Jewish settlements. That doesn't mean Arabs were settling in all of those areas marked in green. The negev for example (the south) was hardly populated at all, but of course it's convenient to make this the first map to add the dramatic effect of Jews stealing land from the Arabs.

 

Nice bit of revisionism there. The great myth that Palestine was empty when it wasnt, this was a standard zionist propoganda to promote immigration of european and american jews who had no links to that land to come and steal it of the inhabitants who have been there forever.

 

Fuck me I wonder what kind of world we would live in if everyone decided they could have a chunk of apparent empty looking land and claim it as there own. I think I will have first dibs on the Grand Canyon, I can't see anyone living there so I say its mine!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, at least Hank makes an intelligent argument, and knows his stuff. I fully understand his position, even agree with the one state solution being preferable. I just don't see it as practicable, whereas you do (aimed at Jonjo...).

 

I'd like to see two states with internationally recognized borders, enforced by the US, Russia, and an Arab coalition. And an end to war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 Arab nations, including the 'Palestinian' population, went to war with Israel to throw the Jews into the mediterranean sea. Their words, not mine. They got their arses kicked by a huge underdog on the brink of extinction.

 

They got their arses kicked by the West mainly America who provided all the weaponry, training and intelligence.

 

Heres just one gem by Mr Ben Gurion

 

""We must expel Arabs and take their places."

 

Not just a one way street is it?

 

They didn't "leave" everything. There were a lot of different things happening. Most of the population left because the Arab nations told them to leave in order to clear the way for them to come in and get rid of the Israeli's. They thought they'd be back. Some left in fear of the war, some joined the war or attempted to kill Israeli civilians in acts of terror before the declaration of independence. Those who stayed and were living within Israel's borders at the end of war got full Israeli citizenship and rights to live there,something the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza never received from Egypt and Jordan.

 

Nice bit of revisionism there, they didn't leave voluntary they were forced and terrorised out of their villages by the zionist terrorist gangs like the Haganah who flattened entire villages and their inhabitants to the ground, Israel is possibly the first nation state in the 20th century that was partly established through terrorism.

 

There were 'massacres' on both sides. It was war, things got very ugly. Why does no one mention the 800,000 Jews in Arab nations (including my parents) who have fled to Israel and only mention the 600,000 Arabs who have fled Palestine? Why can't I return to my "homeland" of Iraq? Why is this even an issue? Tens of millions of people's homes have been taken away from them in World War II. Tens of millions. They all found a home, except 600,000 Palestinians, who are now 4.7 million Palestinians because in this crazy world, Palestinian refugees inherit their parents' status at birth even if they were born in other Arab countries. Whose fault is this, Israel?

 

Most of you people were paid to immigrate to fill up Palestine. Had Israel not been created you would be living happily together in Iraq and elsewhere just like you had been for nearly a century.

 

A Jewish state in Israel was founded in order to provide a home for the Jews. The only home for the Jews. There are 22 Arab nations and over 5,000,000 square miles under their control. Poor Arabs have nowhere to live! Evil Nazi Zionists with their blasphemous idea of having a state to call their own. EVIL, get rid of them.

 

What right do you have to steal and kill the inhabitants of a particular land so you can have a state? Lets not forget that Palestine wasn't even the only piece of land that was thought of to make a state for the Jews, but in the end it suited the religious fanatics to put them there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Jews had every right to have a state of their own after what's happened to them while the rest of the world stood by and watched. It's not too much to ask after such events to take charge of your destiny and not rely on others to not decide all their problems stem from you and order your extermination.

 

Besides, even without the holocaust, Israel earned their land, it was not given to them. It was earned when 10% of Israel's population died in the independence war. 10%. Dead. Because the Arabs wanted it all, because 22 nations and 5,000,000 aquare miles were not enough, because the Jews should never have one little state of their own. No. They can't have it. They are evil Zionists and their existence is blasphemy.

 

This is quite frankly disgusting. What right does anyone have to steal land and kill the inhabitants so they can have some land and a state that doesn't belong to them? You didn't earn that land, you stole it from someone, why didn't America give you some land after all it has plenty of land and had a large influential jewish population. Or is it because the Christian and Jewish fanatics had other ideas based on absurd religious views?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point of interest:

Jewish population of Jordan - 0

Jewish population of Syria - less than 100

Jewish population of Iraq - 0

Jewish population of Lebanon - less than 100

Jewish population of Egypt - less than 100

Jewish population of Saudi Arabia - 0

Jewish population of Iran - 20,000

Arab Muslim Israeli citizens (not including Gaza or West Bank) - 1.2m.

 

Please feel free to draw whatever conclusions support your arguments.

 

Go and see how they treat the Arabs in citizens, not only them but Ethiopian jews and christian converts, they are treated like animals and 2nd class citizens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They got their arses kicked by the West mainly America who provided all the weaponry, training and intelligence.

 

You're an amazing pathological liar.

 

Heres just one gem by Mr Ben Gurion

 

""We must expel Arabs and take their places."

 

Not just a one way street is it?

 

Here's the real quote, not the distortion, Mr. pathological liar:

 

"We do not wish, we do not need to expel the Arabs and take their place. All our aspirations are built upon the assumption — proven throughout all our activity in the Land — that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs."

Letter to his son Amos (5 October 1937), as quoted in Teveth, Shabtai, Ben Gurion: The Burning Ground; and Karsh, Efraim (2000), Fabricating Israeli History: The 'New Historians'; this has been extensively misquoted as "[We] must expel Arabs and take their places" after appearing in this form in Morris, Benny (1987), The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947–1949, Cambridge University Press, p. 25.

 

Nice bit of revisionism there, they didn't leave voluntary they were forced and terrorised out of their villages by the zionist terrorist gangs like the Haganah who flattened entire villages and their inhabitants to the ground, Israel is possibly the first nation state in the 20th century that was partly established through terrorism.

 

Pathological lying, much? Yes, there was violence, there was war, but there was never a systematic exile of Arabs. Those who stayed got full CITIZENSHIP.

 

Most of you people were paid to immigrate to fill up Palestine. Had Israel not been created you would be living happily together in Iraq and elsewhere just like you had been for nearly a century.

 

This was the best bit. Such an extraordinary impertinent lie, which made me crack up. Amazing. My parents' families lived in tents for 3 years when they got here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, at least Hank makes an intelligent argument, and knows his stuff. I fully understand his position, even agree with the one state solution being preferable. I just don't see it as practicable, whereas you do (aimed at Jonjo...).

 

I'd like to see two states with internationally recognized borders, enforced by the US, Russia, and an Arab coalition. And an end to war.

 

I see a one state as the end solution, didn't say I think its feasible because you know how much the two sides hate each at this moment in time, it won't work, but in the past the jews, muslims and christians all lived next to each as neighbors, friends etc, so why shouldn't it work at some point in the future...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice bit of revisionism there, they didn't leave voluntary they were forced and terrorised out of their villages by the zionist terrorist gangs like the Haganah who flattened entire villages and their inhabitants to the ground, Israel is possibly the first nation state in the 20th century that was partly established through terrorism.

 

 

As opposed to all those other nation states which were established by peaceful means, of course. Indeed, I believe Britain was first conceived by the Marquess of Lansdowne over a genial mug of tea at Boodle's and all within earshot roundly agreed what a ruddy good idea it was too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is quite frankly disgusting. What right does anyone have to steal land and kill the inhabitants so they can have some land and a state that doesn't belong to them? You didn't earn that land, you stole it from someone, why didn't America give you some land after all it has plenty of land and had a large influential jewish population. Or is it because the Christian and Jewish fanatics had other ideas based on absurd religious views?

 

You are ignoring the fact that there were plenty of Jews in that area as stated by other posters and their history in Jerusalem - as other posters have pointed out, so where are you going with this? The State of Israel exists, what is your suggestion to end the conflict - if Hamas and its ilk won't stop with the rockets and acknowledge Israel's right to exist, what do you suggest? stop looking backwards in order to justify what Hamas is doing - Israel is not going away. The simple fact is, when they stop, Hamas continues.

 

There is a lot of anti American and anti Israeli commentary on here - and lets face it, understandable in this situation, but I only see a few posters with suggestions as to how to end it. The rest is just vitriolic attacks on two countries that frankly, I would rather live in or next to than any Arab state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The funniest thing is that alot of Palestinians are proper semites whose ancestors were israelities and jewish, who have been in that land generation after generation but converted religions at some point.

 

 

Yes... the point of a sword or lance, most commonly.

 

Go and see how they treat the Arabs in citizens, not only them but Ethiopian jews and christian converts, they are treated like animals and 2nd class citizens.

 

 

I think I'm right in saying that it's generally agreed that Arab citizens of Israel are better off than Arab citizens of any Arab country.

 

Putting Israel's actual crimes to one side for a moment, I do think that Israel's biggest crime in the eyes of its enemies is that it's a country where women and gay people can thrive unmolested by any of the batshit Bronze Age nonsense that passes for a legal system elsewhere in the Middle East.

 

I mean, the Arab states have had their arses kicked - repeatedly - by an army which allows gay people and women to serve freely in its armed forces. You can't get much more humiliating than that in macho Arab culture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The funniest thing is that alot of Palestinians are proper semites whose ancestors were israelities and jewish, who have been in that land generation after generation but converted religions at some point.

 

The funniest thing is you going into complete meltdown spewing some of the most amazing shit I've ever read, including this bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fuck me I wonder what kind of world we would live in if everyone decided they could have a chunk of apparent empty looking land and claim it as there own. I think I will have first dibs on the Grand Canyon' date=' I can't see anyone living there so I say its mine![/quote']

You can't have first dibs on the Grand Canyon.

That went when the early American Christians decided that it was expansion, prearranged by Heaven that they take over the whole continent.

They even sing about in the national anthem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can someone sum this thread up for me?

 

 

An ancient problem creating contemporary problems, all of which will be left unresolved by the contributions in this thread. But it allows people to state which side they're on and argue endlessly and sometimes heatedly in defence of their respective viewpoint.

 

Some good stuff, some shite. A bit like the middle east itself, but without the booms and bangs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the "you people" part. Try saying that to a black dude in his face...

 

Err and? They are a group of people, you Delmar. How do you know I am not black? Fool.

 

Here's the real quote, not the distortion, Mr. pathological liar:

 

"We do not wish, we do not need to expel the Arabs and take their place. All our aspirations are built upon the assumption — proven throughout all our activity in the Land — that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs."

Letter to his son Amos (5 October 1937), as quoted in Teveth, Shabtai, Ben Gurion: The Burning Ground; and Karsh, Efraim (2000), Fabricating Israeli History: The 'New Historians'; this has been extensively misquoted as "[We] must expel Arabs and take their places" after appearing in this form in Morris, Benny (1987), The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947–1949, Cambridge University Press, p. 25.

 

I will gladly take that back if the source is corrupt.

 

Pathological lying, much? Yes, there was violence, but there was never a systematic exile of Arabs. Those who stayed got full CITIZENSHIP.

 

"There was violence", yeh the systematic destruction of Palestinian villages, and please spare the "full citizenship", they are not full citizens, they are second class citizens treated like animal.

 

This was the best bit. Such an extraordinary impertinent lie, which made me crack up. Amazing. My parents's families lived in tents for 3 years when they got here.

 

and what does this have anything to do with what I said? Israel has a policy of actively encouraging Jews to move to Israel, including offering financial incentive.

 

When did your families parents move?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...