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2 hours ago, SasaS said:

Well, that is certainly a view from a soapbox.

Do you really find it such an inexplicable headscratcher that frightened people don't act rationally?

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Meanwhile, back in dear old Blighty...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56746987

 

A Met officer jailed for breaking the leg of a black father in front of his teenage sons did so in a "clear case of racial profiling", a judge has said.

Carl Abrahams left a cemetery in east London with his children on 31 December 2018 after laying flowers.

On their walk home, he was targeted by PC Charlie Harrison.

Judge Gregory Perrins said he was in no doubt that "had Mr Abrahams and his sons been white", Harrison would simply have driven by.

Harrison was jailed for two years and three months on Monday at Southwark Crown Court after being convicted of GBH.

The court heard shortly after lunchtime on New Year's Eve, Harrison was driving an unmarked police car in Forest Gate as part of the Violent Crime Task Force.

He approached Mr Abrahams, who had taken his sons to the cemetery to visit their mother's grave, and performed a "leg sweep" to knock him to the ground.

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16 minutes ago, PrivateParts said:

Do you really find it such an inexplicable headscratcher that frightened people don't act rationally?

As I said, they seem to be frightened of being arrested, not of dealing with the police. This is usually the moment when they do something stupid, and if police do the same, the incident happens. So the first thing to be done here is to train the police to read situations better, which may not be that easy, given the constant threat to themselves from heavily armed population and overall level of training.

They must be doing thousands upon thousands of traffic and other stops involving black people every day, without incidents. So I would say it is claear several things need to come together for things to go wrong.

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2 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Just charged with second degree manslaughter. 

Feel sorry for her actually. From the video she does seem shocked she shot him.

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3 hours ago, M_B said:

Feel sorry for her actually. From the video she does seem shocked she shot him.

Tend to agree if it all plays out as it seems. Certainly they will look at the video to see how long she had the weapon in her hand - cops are not like Quick Draw McGraw and pull out and fire - she would have had to take the safety off at some point I would think. If she is holding the pistol for any amount of time and didn't realize it - that would be a problem.

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She held it long enough to know she was holding a gun with a full chamber and not a taser. She also should have known after at least a split second that she'd got the wrong weapon from the wrong part of her body, least of all the change in weight from her belt. Interesting that her partner was all of a sudden across the street when she said she'd shot the guy. What tactical reason did he have for being there, wasn't it him who originally had the lad pinned against the car? 

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23 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

She held it long enough to know she was holding a gun with a full chamber and not a taser.

Clearly not. She may not have even looked at the weapon. You have reached that conclusion but you weren't in that situation. It is rare, but it has happened on several other occasions - so it can happen.

 

Not a chance any jury would find her guilty of murder on that video evidence.

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2 minutes ago, M_B said:

Clearly not. She may not have even looked at the weapon. You have reached that conclusion but you weren't in that situation. It is rare, but it has happened on several other occasions - so it can happen.

 

Not a chance any jury would find her guilty of murder on that video evidence.

It's not 'clearly not' is it mate? What about the rest of what I said? officer 

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5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

It's not 'clearly not' is it mate? What about the rest of what I said? officer 

All speculation.

 

She'll be guilty of manslaughter and her life is over as she knows it. She fucked up and she'll pay for that, but there is no solid evidence she deliberately decided to kill the guy.

 

Your turn - convince me she murdered him. Beyond reasonable doubt.

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15 minutes ago, M_B said:

All speculation.

 

She'll be guilty of manslaughter and her life is over as she knows it. She fucked up and she'll pay for that, but there is no solid evidence she deliberately decided to kill the guy.

 

Your turn - convince me she murdered him. Beyond reasonable doubt.

Why do I need to convince you she murdered him? I offered situational observations. Have you ever held a taser and/or a loaded hand gun? Have you ever been trained in where and how to hold a weapon that could be used in combat? Have you ever had or even observed tactical armed scenarios? 

 

I don't think she is guilty of murder beyond reasonable doubt. That doesn't mean that things can't be questioned. 

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4 hours ago, M_B said:

Feel sorry for her actually. From the video she does seem shocked she shot him.

You feel sorry she got manslaughter? She killed him. She might not have wanted to but she did it. Nothing to feel sorry for. It's not first degree murder.

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8 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Tend to agree if it all plays out as it seems. Certainly they will look at the video to see how long she had the weapon in her hand - cops are not like Quick Draw McGraw and pull out and fire - she would have had to take the safety off at some point I would think. If she is holding the pistol for any amount of time and didn't realize it - that would be a problem.

"And I don't mean that in no good way."

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7 hours ago, M_B said:

All speculation.

 

She'll be guilty of manslaughter and her life is over as she knows it. She fucked up and she'll pay for that, but there is no solid evidence she deliberately decided to kill the guy.

 

Your turn - convince me she murdered him. Beyond reasonable doubt.

I've been on a police gun firing range, one of my friends' dad was a police officer who was licenced to use a gun. I fired it in a range and it was cool as fuck. I distinctly remember him saying 'good shot' and I turned to face him to say thanks. I turned with the gun and four people ran towards me to point the gun back at the target.

 

Police are supposed to live by the philosophy that you NEVER point a gun (whether you believe it's loaded or not) unless you have some intention to use it in the direction it's pointed.

 

If you and others honestly believe her story that she thought it was a taser and she had no intention of using the gun, that would explain why the police get off so easily. I find it hard to believe their training would be THAT bad.

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7 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

You feel sorry she got manslaughter? She killed him. She might not have wanted to but she did it. Nothing to feel sorry for. It's not first degree murder.

You can feel sorry for another human being making a mistake. It's called empathy. There is no shame in that. Manslaughter is the right charge despite that.

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19 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

If you and others honestly believe her story that she thought it was a taser and she had no intention of using the gun, that would explain why the police get off so easily. I find it hard to believe their training would be THAT bad.

Yet it has happened to other policemen. It's not an isolated incident.

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7 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Why do I need to convince you she murdered him? I offered situational observations. Have you ever held a taser and/or a loaded hand gun? Have you ever been trained in where and how to hold a weapon that could be used in combat? Have you ever had or even observed tactical armed scenarios? 

 

I don't think she is guilty of murder beyond reasonable doubt. That doesn't mean that things can't be questioned. 

Fine. Your questioning led me to assume you felt she murdered him. My mistake.

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7 minutes ago, M_B said:

Yet it has happened to other policemen. It's not an isolated incident.

That sounds like it's not really a problem then. Perhaps if a police officer were convicted of murder it would send a kick up the arse of officers to not be so knee jerk in the use of force. After all, using force should only be used in extreme circumstances, not just because it makes their job easier, which is how force seems to be being used now.

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7 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

That sounds like it's not really a problem then. Perhaps if a police officer were convicted of murder it would send a kick up the arse of officers to not be so knee jerk in the use of force. After all, using force should only be used in extreme circumstances, not just because it makes their job easier, which is how force seems to be being used now.

Of course it is a problem, but it shows that mistakes happen despite the training. To convict someone of murder you have to prove they made a decision to kill someone.

 

I agree with the argument about deploying a taser or a firearm in the first place though.

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11 minutes ago, M_B said:

Of course it is a problem, but it shows that mistakes happen despite the training. To convict someone of murder you have to prove they made a decision to kill someone.

 

I agree with the argument about deploying a taser or a firearm in the first place though.

99% agree with all this, except the assumption that they are mistakes. Hopefully they are, but it's possible that some of them are not.

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9 hours ago, M_B said:

 

You can feel sorry for another human being making a mistake. It's called empathy. There is no shame in that. Manslaughter is the right charge despite that.

I think I'll empathize for the guy that got shot and not the police officer that thought her gun was a taser, but thanks for the lesson in humanity.

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