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34 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Back it up.

Evidence and shit.

But you have said that if you think someone is being racist you would call them out on it. So using Fox as an example, has he specifically said anything overtly racist to be justified being branded a racist? (I'll freely admit I personally haven't seen it as I pay very little attention to him)

 

Or is it just people piling on, like a lot of the left have done with the likes of Jordan Peterson (recent example of him being compared to a the Nazi Red Skull) or Sam Harris or even Ben Shapiro (granted he sets himself up with poor analogy's)

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Well a quick search on here shows the word has been used 1,400 plus times. Given that it’s been 75 years since the last fascist regime and this isn’t a WW2 history forum, 1,400 “fascists” feels like a lot of unnecessary usage. 

And of those 1,400 uses, how many are used as an empty insult against someone the poster disagrees with? And how many are used to refer to, y'know, Fascists?

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Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

And of those 1,400 uses, how many are used as an empty insult against someone the poster disagrees with? And how many are used to refer to, y'know, Fascists?

You're right of course a lot are empty insults. Is it right to down play the meaning of the word?

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3 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think it’s massively misunderstood. It’s become a catch all to insult people whose opinions are right wing even those a lot of ‘right wing’ values such as libertarianism, small state, free markets etc are directly at odds with the actual fascist beliefs of authoritarianisn, massive expansion of the role of the state into every sphere of life and nationalised industries. I struggle to see how many modern UK conservative politicians could be defined as fascist but it’s a commonplace insult, 

I'd say their leader is at least a racist,bigot and xenophobe so he's pretty close.

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59 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I wasn't talking about the finer points of libel law: I was talking about right and wrong.

But if you want to talk about libel, let's do that.  Nobody ever has or ever will go to a UK libel hearing with a case about blackberries. No lawyer will take a case based on what one person thinks. Libel cases are decided on what the court thinks is reasonable (and the lawyers will only take those they think have a chance of success).  I've accused people on here (probably including you) of racism, in respect of something they've posted. If you (or whoever) decided to sue me for libel, I would point to your post and argue that that twat on the Clapham omnibus would think it's a bit racist. 

I've never called anyone here a paedo, because I'd have no grounds for doing so and any libel court would, quite rightly, throw the book at me.

 

To summarise:-

Saying something with evidence to back it up is the proper exercise of free speech. 

Wildly throwing around completely unfounded accusations is a cunt's trick and probably libellous.

 

(PS - Shove your "of course not" up your arse sideways, you witless snide gobshite.)

This is what you said. 
 

“If someone says or does something you think is racist, it's perfectly legitimate to call them a racist twat.”
 
Thats not true because people can take all sorts of benign things to be racist. Like wearing braids or wearing the wrong clothes.  So, you calling someone racist because of your own interpretation of the word isn’t any kind of defence.  Glad to have helped and hope they rest of your period passes well. 
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3 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

This is exactly my point, racism isn’t fascism, it’s racism. Bigotry isn’t facism, it’s bigotry. Fascism is a very specific set of values and beliefs although there are variants between the German and Italian approach. Johnson is not a facist by any definition. 

He's just missing mobilising the army to whip us all into shape to be fair. 

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6 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

This is exactly my point, racism isn’t fascism, it’s racism. Bigotry isn’t facism, it’s bigotry. Fascism is a very specific set of values and beliefs although there are variants between the German and Italian approach. Johnson is not a facist by any definition. 


He’s certainly sailing close to the wind, through accident or design is up to the observer...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-military-fascist-far-right-language-a9126151.html%3Famp

 

When even the friendly newspapers are mentioning it it might be time to consider it a option.

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Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

 

That's the definition. He's ticked most of them and is starting to use briefings to slag off opposition politicians. I think we aren't that far off.

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9 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

This is exactly my point, racism isn’t fascism, it’s racism. Bigotry isn’t facism, it’s bigotry. Fascism is a very specific set of values and beliefs although there are variants between the German and Italian approach. Johnson is not a facist by any definition. 

Nationalisation of industry (you can't control what you don't own) is a left ideology pure and simple, yet according to you it comes under fascism. You can't say I think it means they are fascist but if a number of elements combine then you can definitely point it out as leaning.

 

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31 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think it’s massively misunderstood. It’s become a catch all to insult people whose opinions are right wing even those a lot of ‘right wing’ values such as libertarianism, small state, free markets etc are directly at odds with the actual fascist beliefs of authoritarianisn, massive expansion of the role of the state into every sphere of life and nationalised industries. I struggle to see how many modern UK conservative politicians could be defined as fascist but it’s a commonplace insult, 

The current government is behaving in an increasingly authoritarian manner. In that respect, at least, I've seen people  (with some justification) arguing that they are showing some of the signs of Fascism. 

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4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The current government is behaving in an increasingly authoritarian manner. In that respect, at least, I've seen people  (with some justification) arguing that they are showing some of the signs of Fascism. 

Media manipulation being at the fore-front. 

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28 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

This is what you said. 
 

“If someone says or does something you think is racist, it's perfectly legitimate to call them a racist twat.”
 
Thats not true because people can take all sorts of benign things to be racist. Like wearing braids or wearing the wrong clothes.  So, you calling someone racist because of your own interpretation of the word isn’t any kind of defence.  Glad to have helped and hope they rest of your period passes well. 

Such a bellend. 

 

I know what I said, you daft fart: i said it. Of course it's legitimate to call someone racist if they say or do something you think is racist.  (Ask MacPherson if you don't believe me.) I'd go further and argue that it's a moral obligation to call out racism where you see it. Obviously, if the person you call racist thinks they've done nothing wrong, it's perfectly legitimate for them to argue their case.

 

Not a fan of free speech, ate you?

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5 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Such a bellend. 

 

I know what I said, you daft fart: i said it. Of course it's legitimate to call someone racist if they say or do something you think is racist.  (Ask MacPherson if you don't believe me.) I'd go further and argue that it's a moral obligation to call out racism where you see it. Obviously, if the person you call racist thinks they've done nothing wrong, it's perfectly legitimate for them to argue their case.

 

Not a fan of free speech, ate you?

I’m not a free speech absolutist, no.  That’s fucking mental. 

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17 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I’m not a free speech absolutist, no.  That’s fucking mental. 

Me neither. Free speech comes with responsibility. 

 

A should be free to say stuff.

B should be free to challenge that stuff, if they think it's false, harmful, racist, homophobic or whatever. 

A should be free to respond to that challenge. 

 

This really isn't controversial.  I don't know why you're worrying away at it like it's an itchy scab.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

 

That's the definition. He's ticked most of them and is starting to use briefings to slag off opposition politicians. I think we aren't that far off.

And whether or not Johnson has ticked that list off, I'm willing to bet that a fair chunk of the people referred to as Fascist in the 1,400 mentions on the forum (whether it's the EDL or Bolsonaro or Orbán or whoever) are proud to sign up to that.

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