Racism in football - is there a problem?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 18/12/2019 at 08:10, rb14 said:

I'm sure you're a lovely person but your last two posts in this thread; really? 

His last two posts are spot on.

 

When politicians and the media legitimise xenophobia and racism, the knuckle draggers take the cue that there time has arrived and there is an increase in racist abuse and racist attacks. That's not just what you'd logically suspect or an extrapolation from numerous bits of anecdotal evidence (in which the racists themselves make the link explicit), but it's also supported by statistical evidence.

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/03/19/hate-crime-did-spike-after-the-referendum-even-allowing-for-other-factors/

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

More brain-dead dickheads ruining the game. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/dec/22/chelsea-tottenham-premier-league-racist-abuse-stadium-announcement

 

[VladimirIlyich]

49 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

His last two posts are spot on.

 

When politicians and the media legitimise xenophobia and racism, the knuckle draggers take the cue that there time has arrived and there is an increase in racist abuse and racist attacks. That's not just what you'd logically suspect or an extrapolation from numerous bits of anecdotal evidence (in which the racists themselves make the link explicit), but it's also supported by statistical evidence.

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/03/19/hate-crime-did-spike-after-the-referendum-even-allowing-for-other-factors/

 

I thought I was just voicing legitimate concerns and I'm quite surprised that a decent poster like rb14 thought I was being extreme. Most on here believe Trump is a racist and xenophobe,among many other unlikeable traits and Johnson is very much a UK version. Whether it be 'picaninnies' or 'mexican rapists' it seems to me to be a very specific type of language used by extremist and prejudiced public figures to incite discrimination.

[rb14]

This "decent poster" is actually quite a nice guy as my husband, who has no choice, will agree. My politics are, to my mind, well-reasoned and considered. And I support leaving EU.

 

Like many of my well-reasoned brexit-supporting friends, I'm neither racist nor xenophobic, nor, unless I'm having a dream of a particularly wild sex party, have my knuckles ever dragged along the floor. 

 

The narrative that the tory party (who I despise), or Johnson (ditto) is tangibly any more or less racist than the Labour Party (who I despise), or Corbyn (ditto), is myopic and misleading. 

 

Trump (who I despise), was elected by the majority of the US electorate instead of Clinton (who I despise) and I'm absolutely not surprised. I'd never have voted for her, not that I'd ever have voted for him. 

 

The FA are a virtue-signalling bunch of cunts with whom I've had extremely unpleasant experiences over the years. They're just like the MSA (Motorsports Association) and in fact the majority of the UK's sports governing bodies in that they're largely disconnected from the vast majority of their members.

 

I trust not one part of the FA to combat racism effectively. I worry that the act of walking off the pitch when experiencing racist abuse is walking a very thin line. If I, or any of my team, had walked off the pitch when we experienced homophobic abuse, we wouldn't have played many games. Should Brighton fans walk out of the stadium when they hear people singing "Does your boyfriend know you're here"? Is that homophobic? Who should decide? In whose hands do we want that power to be invested? The referee? The FA? The players? 

[VladimirIlyich]

3 hours ago, rb14 said:

This "decent poster" is actually quite a nice guy as my husband, who has no choice, will agree. My politics are, to my mind, well-reasoned and considered. And I support leaving EU.

 

Like many of my well-reasoned brexit-supporting friends, I'm neither racist nor xenophobic, nor, unless I'm having a dream of a particularly wild sex party, have my knuckles ever dragged along the floor. 

 

The narrative that the tory party (who I despise), or Johnson (ditto) is tangibly any more or less racist than the Labour Party (who I despise), or Corbyn (ditto), is myopic and misleading. 

 

Trump (who I despise), was elected by the majority of the US electorate instead of Clinton (who I despise) and I'm absolutely not surprised. I'd never have voted for her, not that I'd ever have voted for him. 

 

The FA are a virtue-signalling bunch of cunts with whom I've had extremely unpleasant experiences over the years. They're just like the MSA (Motorsports Association) and in fact the majority of the UK's sports governing bodies in that they're largely disconnected from the vast majority of their members.

 

I trust not one part of the FA to combat racism effectively. I worry that the act of walking off the pitch when experiencing racist abuse is walking a very thin line. If I, or any of my team, had walked off the pitch when we experienced homophobic abuse, we wouldn't have played many games. Should Brighton fans walk out of the stadium when they hear people singing "Does your boyfriend know you're here"? Is that homophobic? Who should decide? In whose hands do we want that power to be invested? The referee? The FA? The players? 

You lost me when you said 'reasoned' and 'I support leaving the EU' in the same paragraph.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, rb14 said:

 

The narrative that the tory party (who I despise), or Johnson (ditto) is tangibly any more or less racist than the Labour Party (who I despise), or Corbyn (ditto), is myopic and misleading. 

 

 

You can't seriously be suggesting that the Labour and Conservative parties - and their respective leaders - are equally racist. Look at the years and years of evidence.

[VladimirIlyich]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

You can't seriously be suggesting that the Labour and Conservative parties - and their respective leaders - are equally racist. Look at the years and years of evidence.

Well,the Labour Party wanted to remain in the EU and the Tory party leader was a large part of the leave campaign. Corbyn was obviously one of those racists that wanted to keep ties with those 'dirty foreigners' while 'everybody's friend' Johnson wanted to leave and sever ties. You've got it so wrong AoT.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, rb14 said:

 

The FA are a virtue-signalling bunch of cunts...

I trust not one part of the FA to combat racism effectively. I worry that the act of walking off the pitch when experiencing racist abuse is walking a very thin line. If I, or any of my team, had walked off the pitch when we experienced homophobic abuse, we wouldn't have played many games. Should Brighton fans walk out of the stadium when they hear people singing "Does your boyfriend know you're here"? Is that homophobic? Who should decide? In whose hands do we want that power to be invested? The referee? The FA? The players? 

What would your response to racism and homophobia in sport be? A resigned shrug, because "shit happens"?

 

It's clear that the FA, Premier League, Football League, UEFA and FIFA are incompetent money-grabbing shits who would rather sweep problems under the carpet with a silly token gesture  (like rainbow laces) which would be fine in the context of meaningful action, but which, instead, usually amount to hypocritical virtue-signalling.  It's also clear that the PFA are no better.

 

So, if the people who run the game aren’t going to take the problems seriously, who is? 

 

To my mind, having players empowered and encouraged to walk off makes sense, in the absence of any serious action from the powers that be (who are too busy rigging the league to keep Everton down).

[skend04]

3 hours ago, rb14 said:

This "decent poster" is actually quite a nice guy as my husband, who has no choice, will agree. My politics are, to my mind, well-reasoned and considered. And I support leaving EU.

 

Like many of my well-reasoned brexit-supporting friends, I'm neither racist nor xenophobic, nor, unless I'm having a dream of a particularly wild sex party, have my knuckles ever dragged along the floor. 

 

The narrative that the tory party (who I despise), or Johnson (ditto) is tangibly any more or less racist than the Labour Party (who I despise), or Corbyn (ditto), is myopic and misleading. 

 

Trump (who I despise), was elected by the majority of the US electorate instead of Clinton (who I despise) and I'm absolutely not surprised. I'd never have voted for her, not that I'd ever have voted for him. 

 

The FA are a virtue-signalling bunch of cunts with whom I've had extremely unpleasant experiences over the years. They're just like the MSA (Motorsports Association) and in fact the majority of the UK's sports governing bodies in that they're largely disconnected from the vast majority of their members.

 

I trust not one part of the FA to combat racism effectively. I worry that the act of walking off the pitch when experiencing racist abuse is walking a very thin line. If I, or any of my team, had walked off the pitch when we experienced homophobic abuse, we wouldn't have played many games. Should Brighton fans walk out of the stadium when they hear people singing "Does your boyfriend know you're here"? Is that homophobic? Who should decide? In whose hands do we want that power to be invested? The referee? The FA? The players? 

What even is this post saying? It starts poorly, is factually incorrect when stating that the majority of the electorate voted for Trump and then intimates people should just accept racist abuse on the pitch.

 

Negged.

[rb14]

Neg away. Feel better? 

[aws]

Any chance of taking the political stuff to the GF? 

[Dr Nowt]

[Leyton388]

There seemed to be more outrage over Liverpool fans throwing some bottles at a bus than there is of the racist incidents going on in football in this country. 

 

I'd love to see a player got over a knock one of those fuckers out who think they can get away with this shit. 

 

We need another Cantona moment. At the very least clubs in this country should be forced to play behind closed doors if their fans are found to be doing this shit.

[No2]

I'm uncomfortable with taking teams off the pitch because of the actions of one person. Taking yesterday as an example, if someone has racially abused a player they will he caught and punished accordingly. Walking off or abandoning the game won't change anything, I don't see how it will affect behaviour going forward, these people are generally not the type that learn from mistakes.

 

Was it Oldham at home where one of their lads cried wolf and it turned out he was mistaken? 

 

FIFA don't do many things right but the 3 strike rule for racism seems a sensible approach. 

[Barrington Womble]

58 minutes ago, Leyton388 said:

There seemed to be more outrage over Liverpool fans throwing some bottles at a bus than there is of the racist incidents going on in football in this country. 

 

I'd love to see a player got over a knock one of those fuckers out who think they can get away with this shit. 

 

We need another Cantona moment. At the very least clubs in this country should be forced to play behind closed doors if their fans are found to be doing this shit.

I don't think it's unreasonable for there to be outrage about both. Neither is acceptable in either football or life outside of football. I don't want to see a player have to leave the pitch and knock one of these fuckers out. I want to see some self policing by fans. Most of the incidents we've had have been individuals or a small number of individuals. People either need to call these cunts out and make them realise it is not acceptable, or if they feel they may be threatened by such people, just pass the seat number of the people involved to either the stewards or the club after the game. It's not the old terracing, we know where people sit. 

 

41 minutes ago, No2 said:

I'm uncomfortable with taking teams off the pitch because of the actions of one person. Taking yesterday as an example, if someone has racially abused a player they will he caught and punished accordingly. Walking off or abandoning the game won't change anything, I don't see how it will affect behaviour going forward, these people are generally not the type that learn from mistakes.

 

Was it Oldham at home where one of their lads cried wolf and it turned out he was mistaken? 

 

FIFA don't do many things right but the 3 strike rule for racism seems a sensible approach. 

I think it depends. Nobody should go to work and be subjected to racist behaviour. However, I do think there needs to be some balance where football is concerned, because while it is work for a couple of hundred people in the stadium including players, it is a public event and like it or not, parts of the public don't know how to behave. I don't think every racist action should involve a walk off, but I think we need to be prepared for someone to do so and they shouldn't be criticised if they do. 

 

What I am finding strange lately, maybe it is my mind playing tricks with me over time. But I was around when racism was everywhere in English football in the 80s. Make no mistake it was worse then, entire ends would be chanting racist abuse (including the kop). But there was none of this monkey thing that has been at the centre of the last 2 incidents. It's almost like the constant mentioning of monkey chants outside of this country is encouraging dead heads here to mimic - like they've got nobody around them to learn racist behaviour from, so they're learning off the telly. 

 

 

[moof]

Points deduction, shows that this shit has a real sporting impact and we won’t tolerate it 

[moof]

3 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

You can't seriously be suggesting that the Labour and Conservative parties - and their respective leaders - are equally racist. Look at the years and years of evidence.

Yeah, it’s an absolutely ridiculous position to hold, not backed up by observable reality 

[aws]

57 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

I don't think it's unreasonable for there to be outrage about both. Neither is acceptable in either football or life outside of football. I don't want to see a player have to leave the pitch and knock one of these fuckers out. I want to see some self policing by fans. Most of the incidents we've had have been individuals or a small number of individuals. People either need to call these cunts out and make them realise it is not acceptable, or if they feel they may be threatened by such people, just pass the seat number of the people involved to either the stewards or the club after the game. It's not the old terracing, we know where people sit. 

 

I think it depends. Nobody should go to work and be subjected to racist behaviour. However, I do think there needs to be some balance where football is concerned, because while it is work for a couple of hundred people in the stadium including players, it is a public event and like it or not, parts of the public don't know how to behave. I don't think every racist action should involve a walk off, but I think we need to be prepared for someone to do so and they shouldn't be criticised if they do. 

 

What I am finding strange lately, maybe it is my mind playing tricks with me over time. But I was around when racism was everywhere in English football in the 80s. Make no mistake it was worse then, entire ends would be chanting racist abuse (including the kop). But there was none of this monkey thing that has been at the centre of the last 2 incidents. It's almost like the constant mentioning of monkey chants outside of this country is encouraging dead heads here to mimic - like they've got nobody around them to learn racist behaviour from, so they're learning off the telly. 

 

 

Racism from supporters used to be far, far worse and if anything there is less now in this country than there has ever been. Mostly it's just random nutters rather than  sections of the crowd (apart from the hissing at Spurs fans). What has changed is that (quite rightly) players are no longer prepared to tolerate abuse from random nutters and the football authorities and the media have stopped turning a blind eye to the issue. 

 

I don't think a points deduction is the answer unless the incident involves a section of the crowd and the club has failed to take appropriate action. If an abusive individual can get points deducted then rival fans will be queueing up to do their bit.  

[rb14]

4 hours ago, skend04 said:

What even is this post saying? It starts poorly, is factually incorrect when stating that the majority of the electorate voted for Trump and then intimates people should just accept racist abuse on the pitch.

 

Negged.

Oh go and fuck off. Jesus. 

 

I truly don't know why I bothered. I'm thrilled that you have an unshakeable conviction in your beliefs. Good on you. And your mates. 

 

Now leave me, and my apparently ignorant, racist, xenophobic, knuckle-dragging mates, to have a preference to be out of the EU. 

 

Here's what I said: "people should just accept racist abuse on the pitch". Oh hang on, I didn't. 

 

No, seriously, just fuck off. You don't know me; you actually know very little about me. But you are quite happy to stand on some pathetic moral high ground and judge me. 

[Rico1304]

My cousins son was the ball boy in front of the stand where the alleged abuse came from. He said he didn’t hear anything racist.  

[moof]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

My cousins son was the ball boy in front of the stand where the alleged abuse came from. He said he didn’t hear anything racist.  

Well there you go, then. Case closed 

[rb14]

58 minutes ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

but it was OK for you to state that Vlads last 2 posts were shit because they didn't fit your views? 

 

I said nothing of the sort. 

[Bjornebye]

Katie Hopkins posts on here?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scenes 

[Dr Nowt]

2 hours ago, aws said:

If an abusive individual can get points deducted then rival fans will be queueing up to do their bit.  

My first thought too.
 

An easy and trite response to it would be to say that combating racism/prejudice is far more important than a sporting result, and that in and of itself is fair enough. But the reason for not wanting the above to happen is more of a pragmatic than moral nature.

 

Surely the way to reduce this sort of thing - and I do not at all profess to have the precise solutions for such a complex issue - is to promote solidarity, commonalities and a shared responsibility to rooting it out, rather than division. Allowing it to become even more of a tribal issue, where people are motivated to pointscore literally as well as metaphorically, would fan the existing flames and make it a fucking nightmare.

 

Without branching into the politics side in any detail as I take your earlier point, we don’t have to look far to see how dangerously division has taken hold and been amplified by people taking sides, having been pitted against one another.

[Leyton388]

40 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Katie Hopkins posts on here?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scenes 

So did Jimmy Saville as well under the personae of JP.