We Have To Accept Some Harsh Facts

[Major Tom]

Embarrassing post from a poster who is not at all interested in Liverpool FC except to vindicate his own (frequently misguided) opinions, to increase his own conceit, and to propagate his own internet persona - which bizarrely revolves around attacking anyone and everyone who disagrees with him and being obsessed with Lucas. You manic narcissist.

 

And if you're going to take yourself as seriously as you do, get your fucking toys back in the pram you hysterical fanny.

 

It's hard to look past this as an accurate portrayal of the opening post.

[ODZ]

Steve McLaren described Yaya Toure as an "enigma" because he isn't a dedicated DM nor is he an attacking midfielder. Apparently a fairly accomplished manager, and a man integral to the Mancs success earlier this century and late last, finds the idea of a midfielder doing both the defending and attacking aspects of the game inexplicable. I can't remember who else was in the studio, but they didn't think that was strange .

 

But even the deepest lying midfielder needs to be able to initiate possession, in fact that is supposed to be his role, something that Lucas is completely inept at. I cringe every time he starts his "passing sequence", which usually ends up with a back pass to Reina and a clearance.

 

Any midfielder in a side which is supposed to dominate possession for a majority of the games, needs to be assertive and show purpose with his passing. There is a reason why Lucas "looks good" in big games, and that is because you don't see him with the ball as much. He's useless with it 90% of the time.

[moof]

Abs. You div. Jenkinson is properly shite.

[Abs]

Abs. You div. Jenkinson is properly shite.

 

He's a kid. He's a 19 year old who has had 8 games in league 1. This time last season he was at loan on a none league team. So offcourse he's gonna make mistakes. But thats the thing with young talents. Wenger says he believes in him, and he did prove it by selling eboue and making him understudy for sagna. And now that sagna is injured. Wenger didnt move either Koscielny or Djourou to right back as both can play there and are far more experienced. Instead he choose him knowing he will make mistakes.

 

If you want young talents to come through, then you have to give them chance and expect them to make mistakes. Wilshere last season for the first 3 months didnt do anything....but he gained so much by having a manager who kept him in there and praise him all the time. Ramsey was giving every ball away when he first came to us.....you cant expect an 18/19 year old to come in and not make mistakes.

[Antynwa]

I honestly for the life of me do not give a shiny fucking shit about Carl fucking Jenkinson.

[Mitch]

Signs i seen at West Brom

 

* Regularly giving the ball away

* Distinct Lack of pace

* Huge gaps in midfield

* Regular breakdown of attacking moves

* Inability to capitalise on promising positions

* Allowing West Brom back into the game

* Lack of imagination in attacking positions

* Slow attacking play

* Poor finishing

 

etc.

 

All of the above were again in evidence against Swansea at Anfield today, but this time, Liverpool were up against a team that was good enough to capitalise, and could quite easily have won the game.

 

It's hard to admit but Liverpool were outclassed at home by a newly promoted side who haven't been in the top flight since 1983.

 

If Liverpool had played like Swansea today, we would all be raving about the quality of the performance and the brilliance of the pass and move football.

 

It may sound like I'm overpraising Brendan Rogers' team, but anyone who saw the game would surely agree - they were outstanding, and played the kind of football Liverpool should've been playing.

 

There were several times in the game where Swansea kept the ball for 30+ passes and left Liverpool chasing shadows. It got embarrassing at times, especially in the second half, where Swansea actually dominated for long periods. Believe me, I take no pleasure in writing these words, but it's always best to tell the truth.

 

Liverpool had a few good passages of play but that is the minimum we should be expecting from a team boasting over £100m of newly acquired 'talent', especially at home against a newly-promoted team.

 

Kenny Dalglish called the performance 'disappointing' - it was worse than that; it was downright disturbing, and if Liverpool continue to play like that then 4th place is a pipe dream.

 

PROS

 

* Not dropping Carroll. He scored in the last game, and it's never right to drop a goal-scoring striker (IMO).

 

* Charlie Adam was at the heart of everything creative Liverpool achieved. Came up with a couple of sublime defence-splitting passes, and spread the play really well.

 

* Another clean sheet.

 

* 6 games unbeaten in a row.

 

CONS

 

* Henderson on the right: it doesn't work, so why keep persisting with it? It's not Hendo's fault he's played out there but he does himself no favours with his 'safety first' approach. Whenever he gets the ball, he plays the safe pass, and seems afraid to take responsibility and take a risk.

 

* Depressing lack of pace in the team, which is regularly exposed whenever Liverpool come up against teams with fast players (Spurs, Norwich, Swansea etc)

 

* Reina: had a dodgy game overall IMO. Seemed to lose concentration a few times. Made several mistakes, and almost cost Liverpool a goal on a couple of occasions.

 

* Downing: Great cross for Carroll, but one great cross per game is not enough to justify starting every match. 12 games without a goal or assist now. Not good enough.

 

* Finishing! There's no excuse for Andy Carroll to miss that golden chance in the first half. The quality of shooting was also poor today, especially from Enrique and Downing, who skied some great chances.

 

* Right side of defence: The amount of space on the right at times was ridiculous. most of Swansea's attacks came down the right, courtesy of Glen Johnson's suspect positioning. I still can't see what Johnson brings to the team that Martin Kelly doesn't.

 

* Right wing: Liverpool have a real problem here Henderson can't play there; Kuyt is better, but still not the best solution, and for some inexplicable reason, the last three managers refuse to do the obvious and try Glen Johnson out on the right. Right wing is and has been a problem position for years; instead of splurging £20m on Henderson (who has been forced to play on the right), why wasn't the money spent on an actual quality right-sided midfielder/winger?!

 

* Substitutions: Downing should've gone off for Bellamy, not Carroll. What exactly had he done to stay on the pitch in the second half?

 

* Carroll/Suarez 'partnership'. It doesn't work. Carroll just doesn't have the technique, pace, movement, positioning or game intelligence to work effectively with Suarez. How many times did Carroll give the ball away by heading it down to no one? He's probably never chested a ball down and brought it under control in his life. Carroll is a good player (on his day), but he does not fit into this team.

 

Overall, the most concerning thing is that Liverpool were made to look ordinary on their own ground by the superior passing, movement and athleticism of a newly-promoted team with practically no Premier League experience.

 

4th place is looking further away than every week

[Xherdan]

Signs i seen at West Brom

 

* Regularly giving the ball away

* Distinct Lack of pace

* Huge gaps in midfield

* Regular breakdown of attacking moves

* Inability to capitalise on promising positions

* Allowing West Brom back into the game

* Lack of imagination in attacking positions

* Slow attacking play

* Poor finishing

 

etc.

 

All of the above were again in evidence against Swansea at Anfield today, but this time, Liverpool were up against a team that was good enough to capitalise, and could quite easily have won the game.

 

It's hard to admit but Liverpool were outclassed at home by a newly promoted side who haven't been in the top flight since 1983.

 

If Liverpool had played like Swansea today, we would all be raving about the quality of the performance and the brilliance of the pass and move football.

 

It may sound like I'm overpraising Brendan Rogers' team, but anyone who saw the game would surely agree - they were outstanding, and played the kind of football Liverpool should've been playing.

 

There were several times in the game where Swansea kept the ball for 30+ passes and left Liverpool chasing shadows. It got embarrassing at times, especially in the second half, where Swansea actually dominated for long periods. Believe me, I take no pleasure in writing these words, but it's always best to tell the truth.

 

Liverpool had a few good passages of play but that is the minimum we should be expecting from a team boasting over £100m of newly acquired 'talent', especially at home against a newly-promoted team.

 

Kenny Dalglish called the performance 'disappointing' - it was worse than that; it was downright disturbing, and if Liverpool continue to play like that then 4th place is a pipe dream.

 

PROS

 

* Not dropping Carroll. He scored in the last game, and it's never right to drop a goal-scoring striker (IMO).

 

* Charlie Adam was at the heart of everything creative Liverpool achieved. Came up with a couple of sublime defence-splitting passes, and spread the play really well.

 

* Another clean sheet.

 

* 6 games unbeaten in a row.

 

CONS

 

* Henderson on the right: it doesn't work, so why keep persisting with it? It's not Hendo's fault he's played out there but he does himself no favours with his 'safety first' approach. Whenever he gets the ball, he plays the safe pass, and seems afraid to take responsibility and take a risk.

 

* Depressing lack of pace in the team, which is regularly exposed whenever Liverpool come up against teams with fast players (Spurs, Norwich, Swansea etc)

 

* Reina: had a dodgy game overall IMO. Seemed to lose concentration a few times. Made several mistakes, and almost cost Liverpool a goal on a couple of occasions.

 

* Downing: Great cross for Carroll, but one great cross per game is not enough to justify starting every match. 12 games without a goal or assist now. Not good enough.

 

* Finishing! There's no excuse for Andy Carroll to miss that golden chance in the first half. The quality of shooting was also poor today, especially from Enrique and Downing, who skied some great chances.

 

* Right side of defence: The amount of space on the right at times was ridiculous. most of Swansea's attacks came down the right, courtesy of Glen Johnson's suspect positioning. I still can't see what Johnson brings to the team that Martin Kelly doesn't.

 

* Right wing: Liverpool have a real problem here Henderson can't play there; Kuyt is better, but still not the best solution, and for some inexplicable reason, the last three managers refuse to do the obvious and try Glen Johnson out on the right. Right wing is and has been a problem position for years; instead of splurging £20m on Henderson (who has been forced to play on the right), why wasn't the money spent on an actual quality right-sided midfielder/winger?!

 

* Substitutions: Downing should've gone off for Bellamy, not Carroll. What exactly had he done to stay on the pitch in the second half?

 

* Carroll/Suarez 'partnership'. It doesn't work. Carroll just doesn't have the technique, pace, movement, positioning or game intelligence to work effectively with Suarez. How many times did Carroll give the ball away by heading it down to no one? He's probably never chested a ball down and brought it under control in his life. Carroll is a good player (on his day), but he does not fit into this team.

 

Overall, the most concerning thing is that Liverpool were made to look ordinary on their own ground by the superior passing, movement and athleticism of a newly-promoted team with practically no Premier League experience.

 

4th place is looking further away than every week

 

 

 

 

Not a fucking hope.

[AussieRed]

What a ridiculous thread. A nil all draw is blamed on the defensive midfielder. A blind man can see that our lack of creativity out wide is the issue. Anyone blaming Lucas for this loss has no knowledge of football at all, which makes complete sense given the originator of this thread.

 

The other issue is that we are not getting enough players in the box for crosses. I do think that we should get rid of the 442. Mainly because we do not have a right sided mid.

[Gym Beglin]

Go and visit arsenal forum and see what people think of jenkinson. he was thrown in the deep end and after being murder by man u, he has got better and better each game. Here's the thing with Jenkinson....he has a manager who has 100% faith in him, so much that when sagna is out for three months, wenger dont want to put koscielny on the right and play mertesacker and vermaelen in the middle. Instead he benched mertesacker today to keep jenkinson on the right.

 

Winterburn said he's the most hard working player at the club and when he met him, he asked him for advice on how to improve. So you can talk about your youngsters all you want, but they are not playing PL football neither do they have a manager who has faith in them.So even if you dont think Jenkinson has much talent. He will surpass those players because of his environment.

 

Today he was one of our best players believe it or not

 

Jenkinson is definitely average, he won't be anything more than a solid player. But you're right, his manager instills confidence in him and stood by him after his really shit start.

My point is that OURyoungsters must be really shit if none of them can cover problem positions for us in the same way Jenkinson has done for you.

 

We wrap our kids in cotton wool then wonder why they aren't brilliant first teamers at age 20. We've got no right winger, why not play Sterling there? we can't score goals, why not give Morgan a chance? What's the worst that can happen? We find out lots about those young players, they pick up their training after getting a taste of first team. Or we can carry on as we are, playing Henderson or Kuyt on the right, and getting the ressies to play Molde ressies.

[the walsh]

i really dont see the owners forking out another 100million next summer they dont have a bottomless pit and it makes some of the signings we made very costly mistakes. at the moment where light years behind city.and they have spent 500million thats the reallity and we have no where the quality they have unless we have exceptional youngsters we would need to spend big just to keep up.

[guinness]

All of which I've been saying for ages:

 

1) We won't finish in the Top 4 because we don't have a very good side

2) Lucas and Adam is possibly the worst CM partnership in the Premiership

3) We've wasted £120m on ordinary transfers

4) We need Lucas out of the first team immediately. He is truly, truly shite.

5) Henderson is a fucking embarrassment at RM, and should be played centrally or - preferably - not at all

6) We need a dominant CM who can hold the side together

7) we still lack pace and penetration and without Suarez we would be below West Brom

8) Our best signings have cost us £6m and £0m.

 

Wakey wakey

 

I've just started reading this thread. On a scale from 1 to 27 it is going to be 29 ace.....

[HBenn]

I think our problems stem from midfield. Henderson is struggling and Downing flickers in and out of the game. But I do think most of our problems would be rectified if we had more authority in the centre of the park.

 

Without Gerrard, I think our midfield lacks authority. I believe all the top midfielders have an edge, a nasty side and most importantly dictate to the opposition. Souness, Viera, although I hate to admit Keane, Mascherano, De Jong and even Alonso weren't afraid to get involved. Teams do not look forward to playing against these players.

 

I am not saying we should go out to try and kick teams off the park but by the same token, teams are not just going to let you do what you want. When Gerrard does not play our midfield is too nice, they react to what the opposition do. They do not dictate.

If I were Dalglish I would look to rectify that in January.

[silverlining]

I think our problems stem from midfield. Henderson is struggling and Downing flickers in and out of the game. But I do think most of our problems would be rectified if we had more authority in the centre of the park.

 

Without Gerrard, I think our midfield lacks authority. I believe all the top midfielders have an edge, a nasty side and most importantly dictate to the opposition. Souness, Viera, although I hate to admit Keane, Mascherano, De Jong and even Alonso weren't afraid to get involved. Teams do not look forward to playing against these players.

 

I am not saying we should go out to try and kick teams off the park but by the same token, teams are not just going to let you do what you want. When Gerrard does not play our midfield is too nice, they react to what the opposition do. They do not dictate.

If I were Dalglish I would look to rectify that in January.

 

Opposition teams and their fans look at the likes of Lucas, Adam and Henderson in our midfield and think "we can give this a fucking good go"

 

And then do.

 

Our "engine room" is like a 1.2 litre Fiat Punto.

[stringvest]

I think our problems stem from midfield. Henderson is struggling and Downing flickers in and out of the game. But I do think most of our problems would be rectified if we had more authority in the centre of the park.

 

Without Gerrard, I think our midfield lacks authority. I believe all the top midfielders have an edge, a nasty side and most importantly dictate to the opposition. Souness, Viera, although I hate to admit Keane, Mascherano, De Jong and even Alonso weren't afraid to get involved. Teams do not look forward to playing against these players.

 

I am not saying we should go out to try and kick teams off the park but by the same token, teams are not just going to let you do what you want. When Gerrard does not play our midfield is too nice, they react to what the opposition do. They do not dictate.

If I were Dalglish I would look to rectify that in January.

 

 

There we go. At best, we 'control'. And even then, not very often.

 

Good post Hilary. Repped.

[HBenn]

Opposition teams and their fans look at the likes of Lucas, Adam and Henderson in our midfield and think "we can give this a fucking good go"

 

And then do.

 

Our "engine room" is like a 1.2 litre Fiat Punto.

 

I don't disagree with that and I think it is upto Henderson, Adam and Lucas to prove that is not the case. I don't want this get into a slagging of those 3 players but I do feel they need to stamp their personality more on games and be less "passive".

I don't think it is all doom and gloom because you do not need all your midfielders to be putting their foot in. I mean in the Arsenal team they had Viera but they also had players like Pires who were not exactly physical. I just think our blend is not right but think the signing of just one top quality centre midfielder could potentially lead to a big improvement. I mean if you take De Jong and Toure out of the Man City midfield I think they would struggle to impose themselves on other teams.

[P.S.D]

One thing that annoys me is people blaming 'keepers having a blinder'.

 

They do not have blinders they make good saves that most keepers in the league should save. We need to be more clinical and Suarez is the only guy who looks like scoring and he's not a great finisher (Which he makes up for in other areas.)

 

Reina - Solid, excellent keeper.

Enrique - Works his bollocks off and pretty much plays Left back and Left wing.

Skrtel - Decent back up.

Agger - Solid defender but too injury prone.

Johnson - Good attacking full back but needs support from the right midfielder (Much like Enrique on the left)

Downing - Good option to have but doesn't produce enough nor is he a great threat)

Adam - Needs to be part of a 3 man midfield. Too slow and lazy, leaves us massively exposed. Not creative enough either.

Lucas - Average defensive midfielder, poor distribution.

Henderson - Useless on the right, needs to pay centre midfield to be judged properly.

Suarez - Top class player (Will leave if we don't shape up) Who could blame him.

Carroll - He's a decent option to have and would be an asset to most teams, cannot be relied as a goalscorer.

 

We need more investment, a lot more.

 

How much more money would you like, KK has had quite a bit of money & so far apart from Suarez everyone has been for the majority mediocre at best, it's only that Dalglish is such a legend here that there is'nt more stick being thrown at him

[Code]

Some great lurkage on show here.

[Guest SpiderLucas]

Kenny shouldn’t be allowed near a cheque book ever again. He’s bought terribly, we’re playing terribly and his tactics are fucking shite.

 

The only thing worse than signing poor players is refusing to accept they’re shit, he’s done/doing both. Adam is far too slow to be a Liverpool central midfielder, other than Gerrard our 3 best midfielders at the start of the season where sold, loaned and played constantly on right midfield.

 

It’s turning into a joke that fans won’t face up to the facts and admit we got it wrong in our appointment of a manager, again.

 

This team would easily get top 4, in the 19 fucking 80s. 4-4-2 hasn’t worked for years, we’ve already dropped 8 points at home and he’s wasted vast amounts of money.

 

Rafa Benitez had £125million to spend on HIS own players with no questions asked; we’d of won the league.

 

Just think if Roy had signed Carroll for £35m, Downing for £20m and Adam for £6.5m, plus had this shite fucking start to the season we’d of been up in arms. (Oh wait, we were up in arms last season).

 

Shit buys, shit tactics, shit start to the season.

[moof]

Shit wanker

[zigackly]

I think our problems stem from midfield. Henderson is struggling and Downing flickers in and out of the game. But I do think most of our problems would be rectified if we had more authority in the centre of the park.

 

Without Gerrard, I think our midfield lacks authority. I believe all the top midfielders have an edge, a nasty side and most importantly dictate to the opposition. Souness, Viera, although I hate to admit Keane, Mascherano, De Jong and even Alonso weren't afraid to get involved. Teams do not look forward to playing against these players.

 

I am not saying we should go out to try and kick teams off the park but by the same token, teams are not just going to let you do what you want. When Gerrard does not play our midfield is too nice, they react to what the opposition do. They do not dictate.

If I were Dalglish I would look to rectify that in January.

 

Great post.

[zigackly]

Kenny shouldn’t be allowed near a cheque book ever again. He’s bought terribly, we’re playing terribly and his tactics are fucking shite.

 

The only thing worse than signing poor players is refusing to accept they’re shit, he’s done/doing both. Adam is far too slow to be a Liverpool central midfielder, other than Gerrard our 3 best midfielders at the start of the season where sold, loaned and played constantly on right midfield.

 

It’s turning into a joke that fans won’t face up to the facts and admit we got it wrong in our appointment of a manager, again.

 

This team would easily get top 4, in the 19 fucking 80s. 4-4-2 hasn’t worked for years, we’ve already dropped 8 points at home and he’s wasted vast amounts of money.

 

Rafa Benitez had £125million to spend on HIS own players with no questions asked; we’d of won the league.

 

Just think if Roy had signed Carroll for £35m, Downing for £20m and Adam for £6.5m, plus had this shite fucking start to the season we’d of been up in arms. (Oh wait, we were up in arms last season).

 

Shit buys, shit tactics, shit start to the season.

 

Shit post. In fact I think I can extend that to shit poster.

[Fallen Angel]

Seriously we have been massively found out. Some were saying in the summer the signings were poor only to be drowned out by people saying ' they haven't even played a game for us yet....wait until ten games into the season etc...'

 

So here we are 11 games in - out of the title hunt a month ago and no serious chance of CL football next season. Now in sixth place which is about the right level for that squad of players - mediocre players. Take Suarez out of that team and it becomes a bottom-half of the table squad. And he will be out of his own volition soon enough.

 

With the money to invest some people in the club decided 72 million on Carroll, Henderson and Downing was what was required and a good investment. Those decisions have now been proven to be woeful and the opportunity gate-crashing back into the elite was squandered.

 

Some people within that club have a lot of answers to give.

[Beantown Red]

[Guest SpiderLucas]

Shit post. In fact I think I can extend that to shit poster.

 

We’ll see at the end of the season when we finish 7th, Carroll hasn’t scored 10 league goals, Downing hasn’t even got 5 assists and Suarez and Reina hand in a transfer request.

 

Then we might get a good European manager, who might then buy some good European coaches. Write this season off.

[zigackly]

We’ll see at the end of the season

 

I think I can comfortably predict that you will still be shit.