Swansea (Home)

[zigackly]

The only reason Kuyt isn't a starter is because he didn't cost a big fee like Carroll and Henderson. Nothing to do with Kuyt's footballing ability really.

 

I think you're being a bit naive. It may not be altogether to do with his footballing ability, although I suspect you'll find many have wanted him replaced for some time on those grounds, and not without reason, but more to do with the system we are trying to play, which requires someone equally comfortable in midfield or out wide. Henderson may not be making the role his, but I'm not sure it would suit Dirk at all either. In fact, since the wingers role never suited him, it's probably even worse bringing him inside more! I see Kuyt as a striker or a support striker, and that's it. Not his fault he has been played out of position for a long time, and full credit to him for never complaining and doing his best there, but I can understand why, for many reasons, Dalglish has sacrificed him this season. Whether he should be considering bringing him back into the team to play with Suarez is another matter entirely, and not completely without merit.

[silverlining]

The only reason Kuyt isn't a starter is because he didn't cost a big fee like Carroll and Henderson. Nothing to do with Kuyt's footballing ability really.

 

Well, Carroll's been left on the bench quite a few times too.

[zigackly]

Well, Carroll's been left on the bench quite a few times too.

 

I don't believe Henderson has started every game either. We're obviously still experimenting to an extent, but I don't think Kuyt fits into Kenny's long term plans in midfield much at all.

[satansmutt]

Seeing Charlie Adam trying to track back, always 10 yards behind the play, running as fast as he can but still looking like he's towing a double decker bus(with the handbrake still on) has to be one of the most dispiriting, depressing sights any Liverpool supporter can see.

He might be better than Lucas in an attacking sense but he really isn't so good that we can ignore his many faults especially in a 4-4-2 setup. Maybe if we went back to Rafa's favorite 4-2-3-1 system we could accommodate some of our players better or maybe we can have yet another mass clear out of the dead wood in jan and try again

[PaulMcC]

4231 suits our players best.

[Jairzinho]

4231 suits our players best.

 

With who as the 1?

[Whelan]

With who as the 1?

 

Caroll at home, Suarez away.

 

Meaning Suarez behind at home, and Gerrard behind away.

[satansmutt]

we could have Lucas and Spearing in midfield Downing on the right Bellamy on the left with Suarez supporting either Carroll or Kuyt

[Il Fenomeno]

I think you're being a bit naive. It may not be altogether to do with his footballing ability, although I suspect you'll find many have wanted him replaced for some time on those grounds, and not without reason, but more to do with the system we are trying to play, which requires someone equally comfortable in midfield or out wide. Henderson may not be making the role his, but I'm not sure it would suit Dirk at all either. In fact, since the wingers role never suited him, it's probably even worse bringing him inside more! I see Kuyt as a striker or a support striker, and that's it. Not his fault he has been played out of position for a long time, and full credit to him for never complaining and doing his best there, but I can understand why, for many reasons, Dalglish has sacrificed him this season. Whether he should be considering bringing him back into the team to play with Suarez is another matter entirely, and not completely without merit.

 

To be fair I was probably referring to Carroll more than Henderson with the comment. Maybe I should've made it clearer. I don't want Kuyt as a wide man, certainly not in this flat 4-4-2 system, but as a striker he currently brings more to the team than Carroll does. I can understand this whole business of building for the future and playing Carroll instead of Kuyt so he can build a long term partnership with Suarez but I personally don't see it ever happening for them, which is why I don't agree with him being ahead of Kuyt in the striker role.

 

People will bring up the stat that most of Suarez' goals this season have come when Carroll has been on the pitch, but IMO that's simply a coincidence, its been nothing to do with them forming an understanding and helping each other. The only game where they've looked like a half decent partnership is against West Brom, in other games they've just looked like two individuals trying to do their own thing, like they did again against Swansea at Anfield. With Carroll knocking crosses down into the space and Suarez being nowhere near them.

 

In my opinion its going to come to a point in January or at the end of the season when we're forced to choose between Carroll or Suarez, and lets be honest, there's only going to be one winner in that contest.

[Whelan]

In all fairness to Caroll the service was non existent on Saturday, it is difficult to do anything when the ball is being played to you with your back to the goal.

[zigackly]

To be fair I was probably referring to Carroll more than Henderson with the comment. Maybe I should've made it clearer. I don't want Kuyt as a wide man, certainly not in this flat 4-4-2 system, but as a striker he currently brings more to the team than Carroll does. I can understand this whole business of building for the future and playing Carroll instead of Kuyt so he can build a long term partnership with Suarez but I personally don't see it ever happening for them, which is why I don't agree with him being ahead of Kuyt in the striker role.

 

People will bring up the stat that most of Suarez' goals this season have come when Carroll has been on the pitch, but IMO that's simply a coincidence, its been nothing to do with them forming an understanding and helping each other. The only game where they've looked like a half decent partnership is against West Brom, in other games they've just looked like two individuals trying to do their own thing, like they did again against Swansea at Anfield. With Carroll knocking crosses down into the space and Suarez being nowhere near them.

 

In my opinion its going to come to a point in January or at the end of the season when we're forced to choose between Carroll or Suarez, and lets be honest, there's only going to be one winner in that contest.

 

I still don't think that part is completely accurate! We're playing (or at least trying to play) a quite asymmetrical, fluid 4-4-2, which can be characterised at times as a 4-3-3, or even a 4-2-3-1.

 

I wrote a bit about it in the "what formation" thread earlier this morning.

 

No real objection to the rest of what you've written, although I don't altogether agree. All about opinions though, isn't it?

[redmachine23]

In all fairness to Caroll the service was non existent on Saturday, it is difficult to do anything when the ball is being played to you with your back to the goal.

 

Are we not counting the simple chance created down the left that if he'd have buried, as he should have done, instead of hitting the bar, we could have gone on to take the win?

[Jairzinho]

In all fairness to Caroll the service was non existent on Saturday, it is difficult to do anything when the ball is being played to you with your back to the goal.

 

Agreed. Downing is the only winger in the squad, and he's been non existent for most of the season. But at the same time Carroll needs to get himself into the box, at least make himself a target.

[Whelan]

Are we not counting the simple chance created down the left that if he'd have buried, as he should have done, instead of hitting the bar, we could have gone on to take the win?

 

Not excusing that miss, but the fact that it was the only chance created shouldn't be ignored.

 

Lets be honest, as poor as he (Andy) has played this year, Suarez missed a pen against Sunderland, an open goal against Stoke, a good chance against United and two easy chances against Norwich, I don't think it is beyond the realms to state that if it wasn't for Suarez's lack of a cutting edge we could have had an other 6 points!

 

However, the obvious riposte is that he is the reason we have the points that we have.

 

Agreed. Downing is the only winger in the squad, and he's been non existent for most of the season. But at the same time Carroll needs to get himself into the box, at least make himself a target.

 

I think he can be a stroppy twat, rather than sticking at it he seems to lose heart quite quickly.

[Jairzinho]

 

I think he can be a stroppy twat, rather than sticking at it he seems to lose heart quite quickly.

 

Its only natural. He wants to get involved. Wants to show he can contribute. Unfortunately its helping no-one at the moment.

[zigackly]

Agreed. Downing is the only winger in the squad, and he's been non existent for most of the season. But at the same time Carroll needs to get himself into the box, at least make himself a target.

 

Any striker will go looking for the ball when it's not finding him. It's not ideal, but it's human nature.

[Jairzinho]

Any striker will go looking for the ball when it's not finding him. It's not ideal, but it's human nature.

 

Aye. Thats what I said.

[Il Fenomeno]

In all fairness to Caroll the service was non existent on Saturday, it is difficult to do anything when the ball is being played to you with your back to the goal.

 

Agree with that, apart from the first chance, which he should've buried, there just wasn't anything he could score out of, he made the most of the balls that were played in to him, where he knocked them back into a dangerous area, but Suarez just wasn't there.

 

I still don't think that part is completely accurate! We're playing (or at least trying to play) a quite asymmetrical, fluid 4-4-2, which can be characterised at times as a 4-3-3, or even a 4-2-3-1.

 

I wrote a bit about it in the "what formation" thread earlier this morning.

 

No real objection to the rest of what you've written, although I don't altogether agree. All about opinions though, isn't it?

 

That's probably close to what its supposed to be, but it just doesn't seem to be working for 90 minutes for whatever reason. Downing is being bypassed by Enrique for most of the game and Henderson just drifts around the pitch as if he has no idea where he's supposed to play and what his role is in the team.

[Whelan]

Any striker will go looking for the ball when it's not finding him. It's not ideal, but it's human nature.

 

I agree, but he should be aware enough that he shouldn't be looking for it on the half way line!

 

There are four defenders for him to close down, and he should be told 'You stay there and occupy them'. If the ball doesn't come to him, that is their fault, but if you go looking for it and you are not where you should be, then that is your fault.

 

 

And he really needs to get that fucking hair cut!

[zigackly]

Aye. Thats what I said.

 

I think you said it while I was writing my response!

[Jairzinho]

I think you said it while I was writing my response!

 

So what you saying?

 

I win?

 

[zigackly]

We both win. Nice gif.

[Cij]

I am slightly disappointed by the way the season has gone so far as I was really hoping that we would carry on - indeed improve upon – our excellent form in the latter half of last season following Kenny and Steve Clarke’s appointment. We were playing some fantastic free-flowing football and many of our players looked transformed. While we may not have signed a host of superstars during the summer, I thought we had improved the overall quality of the squad and expected this would leave us in better shape to deal with the injuries and suspensions that inevitably crop up every season.

 

Unfortunately it appears that we have tried to change “too much, too soon” in terms of both tactics and personnel and the inevitable teething problems have resulted in us dropping points in matches we would have expected to win. Our inconsistency against the league’s lesser lights has long been our Achilles’ heel and has been one of the most glaring differences between us and the Mancs over the last 15 years. They relentlessly beat virtually all of the teams that haven’t a prayer of qualifying for Europe and this gives them the cushion to absorb mediocre results against the top sides and still come out smelling of roses at the end of the season – PRICKS! The big problem with dropping points against the likes of Swansea, Norwich, Stoke and Sunderland is that it makes the difficult fixtures even more pivotal as there is no margin for error.

 

Personally I think Kenny has fallen into the trap of trying to integrate too many new players too quickly in order to a) get them up and running for the club and b) justify the exorbitant sums spent to acquire them. Henderson is a perfect example; he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire so far and looks less than comfortable shoehorned into the team on the right wing. Maxi, on the other hand, was banging in the goals in the second half of last season but can’t seem to get a look in this term. The temptation is naturally to persist with Henderson in the hope that he will come good (thereby justifying his acquisition) but this can result in the team’s performance suffering in the interim. A similar argument could be made for Carroll / Kuyt and Adam / Henderson / Spearing. Jay really gave us a lot of bite and urgency in the centre of midfield when he came into the team last year but has hardly had a sniff this term. In the Swansea game we were getting overrun because of their numerical advantage in midfield and I felt we should have introduced Spearing in favour of Henderson to redress the balance (admittedly what do I know!!).

 

I have no doubt that Kenny and Steve will eventually get the blend right. They did a remarkable job turning us around last season and undoubtedly have the tools and experience to get us functioning to a better standard this term. For my tuppence worth, there are three key areas we desperately need to address:-

 

1. More players into the box in general play – last season Maxi, Kuyt and Meireles were getting beyond our forwards and we were getting the type of goals the Mancs routinely get when the ball just drops to an attacker’s feet. They aren’t “lucky”; they play the percentages and reap the rewards. Adam, Henderson, Lucas and Downing haven’t got into the box enough this season to pose a consistent threat.

 

2. Tactics to match the opposition – we have shown a tendency to seek to impose our game on the other team rather than matching up like-for-like and allowing our superior quality make the difference. As previously mentioned, Swansea used their numerical advantage in midfield exceptionally well and we simply couldn’t compete. As we grow in familiarity and confidence we will be better able to play our own game but for the time being we need to win the battle first and then let our class tell.

 

3. Our wide players need to get to the bye-line more consistently – if we are going to get the best out of Carroll we have to get our wingers and full-backs crossing from the bye-line so that he can attack the ball. All too often he is feeding off long diagonal balls or flat crosses with his back to goal. At best he can try to touch the ball down for a runner but, as previously mentioned, we aren’t getting enough midfielders into the box for the lay off. Unlike Suarez, he is not the type of forward that will create chances for himself so we need to play to his strengths if we are going to get the best out of him.

 

For now I would like us to revert to a 4-2-3-1 system until more of our players are in good form. Lucas and Spearing holding, Adam / Henderson in front (pending Gerrard’s return), Downing / Bellamy wide left, Kuyt / Maxi wide right with Suarez up top and Carroll coming on as sub. We have two very tough fixtures coming up and I fear that an Adam / Lucas central midfield pairing would see us getting slaughtered.

 

We will definitely improve as our team gels but we cannot afford to let too big a gap emerge between ourselves and the other Champions’ League hopefuls in the meantime.

 

Longest post ever..............................

[ritchie]

A big part of the problem is not playing three in central midfield, so teams who do play the three in midfield stop us from controlling midfield and control it themselves.

 

The two comfortable wins we've had this season were against Bolton and West Brom. What was the common denominator? They both play 4-4-2 with tactically poor managers, so it allowed us to control the midfield.

 

Against Arsenal and Everton it took them to get a midfielder sent off until we could get a grip on the midfield and go onto win the games.

 

It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-2-1, 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 - depending on the opposition - but we need three in midfield unless we're actually playing against 4-4-2.

 

I just hope that Swansea game makes the coaching staff see sense because we were out-thought by Brendan Rodgers. The three in midfield ran rings around us and they still had more width in midfield through natural wide players in Dyer and Routledge.

 

Time to sort it.

[zigackly]

A big part of the problem is not playing three in midfield, so teams who do play the three in midfield stop us from controlling midfield and control it themselves.

 

The two comfortable wins we've had this season were against Bolton and West Brom. What was the common denominator? They both play 4-4-2 with tactically poor managers, so it allowed us to control the midfield.

 

Against Arsenal and Everton it took them to get a midfielder sent off until we could get a grip on the midfield and go onto win the games.

 

It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-2-1, 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 - depending on the opposition - but we need three in midfield unless we're actually playing against 4-4-2.

 

I just hope that Swansea game makes the coaching staff see sense because we were out-thought by Brendan Rodgers. The three in midfield ran rings around us and they still had more width in midfield through natural wide players in Dyer and Routledge.

 

Time to sort it.

 

The system we are trying to play should give us three in midfield when we need it. The problem is that the players are still not playing the system correctly.