More than one great album

[Jim MM]

a thread like this is always going to divide opinion which is obviously the idea.

 

speaking specifically about my two bob marley suggestions' date=' they would be widely regarded by reggae fans and writers as his two finest works and the two that would undoubtedly make a top 20 of all time reggae albums yet neither featured in the rolling stone list.

 

perhaps a thread on what makes an album great would suffice....

 

no doubt some smart alec will pull up one such thread from gf.

 

opinions are good, i love you guys![/quote']

 

Have some rep for your fine taste but that's nonsense. Say what you want about the quality of The Wailing Wailers but Bob recorded his finest work for Island. Those albums would make very few top 20s

 

If Legend doesn't belong on a list of Great Albums because it's a compilation (and it doesn't) then African Herbsman doesn't for the same reason.

Soul Rebels also has a compilation feel to it, it is the work of a band who were used to recording and releasing 45s for years as that's what their audience wanted at that time and place.

 

Both albums have been chopped up, repackaged, regurgitated and sold in every way possible by every chancer with a CDRW drive as the copyright protection on most of The Wailers stuff is virtually non-existant. It always breaks my heart to look in record shops and see three or four 'Bob Marley's Greatest Hits' compilations, each with variations of the same stuff from the 60s. People who didn't know any better could be taken in and ultimately disappointed.

[Jose Jones]

Not many combine producing a great album with tapping the zeitgeistiness of public opinion to be generally accepted as such more than once.

The Beatles, Dylan, Bowie and the Stones obviously. Michael Jackson with Off the Wall and Thriller too probably.

More recently I'd say Radiohead did it with OK Computer and Kid A, even though I am not a massive fan.

As a Nirvana guy I would say In Utero is better than Nevermind, but it is Nevermind that will have more historical resonance, and I'm not sure In Utero would count for a lot of people. It's always easier to look back as some albums gain more appreciation after a few years. The Velvet Underground and Nico for example is obviously a classic album, but probably wouldn't have been considered as such a couple of years after it's release.

 

Someone suggested The Happy Mondays earlier without including Pills n Thrills and Bellyaches which made me chuckle as it is obviously the "classic" Mondays record - even if you might prefer something else - and I don't think a casual listener would go for more than one Mondays record. Similarly I love Public Enemy but not sure they provided too much different between their albums and A nation of millions... would probably always be considered their "classic".

[stringvest]

Elvis Costello is another who's not been mentioned yet: Armed Forces and Imperial Bedroom (with possible cases for This Year's Model and King Of America).

 

Costello has made at least 4 stellar albums.

 

Stevie Wonder is the elephant in this particular front parlour.

 

Scott Walker, The Clash, Joni Mitchell,

 

this could take all night

[LFC 6 Times]

Red Hot Chilli Peppers- Californication, By the Way, Blood sex sugar magik

[Mathewbet1]

Beastie Boys, License to ill & Paul's Boutique

[Alan Sex]

The Pogues need to be on this list.

 

Dead Kennedies.

 

Motörhead.

 

Adam and the ants? Debatable.

 

Johnny Cash and Elvis many times over.

 

Social Distortion? Quite possibly.

[Remmie]

I think what Paul is getting at is contemporary artists aren't producing albums in the same league as massive acts of yesteryear in terms of regard, sales, airplay and legacy.

 

I suspect the reason is because there is so much choice that few bands dominate any more.

 

Because I am lazy with new music, don't think I can come up with anything that hasn't already been mentioned.

 

As big artists I've been surprised not to see the likes of Bowie, Eminem, Jay-Z, Queen, The Smiths and probably many others listed yet, though having said that I only like Bowie out of them myself!

[Paul]

Two people who understand the thread. Hurrah!

 

Not many combine producing a great album with tapping the zeitgeistiness of public opinion to be generally accepted as such more than once.

The Beatles, Dylan, Bowie and the Stones obviously. Michael Jackson with Off the Wall and Thriller too probably.

More recently I'd say Radiohead did it with OK Computer and Kid A, even though I am not a massive fan.

As a Nirvana guy I would say In Utero is better than Nevermind, but it is Nevermind that will have more historical resonance, and I'm not sure In Utero would count for a lot of people. It's always easier to look back as some albums gain more appreciation after a few years. The Velvet Underground and Nico for example is obviously a classic album, but probably wouldn't have been considered as such a couple of years after it's release.

 

Someone suggested The Happy Mondays earlier without including Pills n Thrills and Bellyaches which made me chuckle as it is obviously the "classic" Mondays record - even if you might prefer something else - and I don't think a casual listener would go for more than one Mondays record. Similarly I love Public Enemy but not sure they provided too much different between their albums and A nation of millions... would probably always be considered their "classic".

 

Totally agree on the Mondays records. Pills n Thrills and Bummed are the two, for me. Squirrel and G Man was - and is - an obscure record. PE deffo qualify though: Fear Of A Black Planet is a huge record; a classic that at least matches the quality of It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back.

 

I think what Paul is getting at is contemporary artists aren't producing albums in the same league as massive acts of yesteryear in terms of regard, sales, airplay and legacy.

 

I suspect the reason is because there is so much choice that few bands dominate any more.

 

Because I am lazy with new music, don't think I can come up with anything that hasn't already been mentioned.

 

As big artists I've been surprised not to see the likes of Bowie, Eminem, Jay-Z, Queen, The Smiths and probably many others listed yet, though having said that I only like Bowie out of them myself!

 

I think the changing nature of music definitely mitigates against this. As it becomes ever more diverse, both in terms of genre and acquisition, epoqual albums will be fewer and farther between. In that context, my nomination of ATCQ doesn't qualify in the same way as nominations by the Beatles and Stones would because those records transcended taste and genre; that said taste and genre was far narrower then so it's swings and roundabouts, I suppose.

 

Jay Z probably qualifies for Reasonable Doubt, The Blueprint 2 and The Black Album, I reckon, and The Smiths deffo qualify (take your pick). What's becoming clearer to me is that I don't think anything can be nominated that's much less than ten years old simply because you can't judge its impact or influence without the perspective time provides.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Paul

[Paul]

Beastie Boys, License to ill & Paul's Boutique

 

Paul's Boutique had no impact at all when it was released. In fact most people were saying the group were finished; they'd disappeared up their own arses. Clearly, it's improved with age to the point where people now cite its influence but Ill Communication was - and is - a far better record with a far greater reach and impact, in my opinion. It's easily their best album.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Paul

[Rorschach08]

How about The White Stripes with White Blood Cells and Elephant?

 

I personally think De Stijl is there best album but surely the 2 above will be remembered?

[Lee909]

 

Have some rep for your fine taste but that's nonsense. Say what you want about the quality of The Wailing Wailers but Bob recorded his finest work for Island. Those albums would make very few top 20s

 

If Legend doesn't belong on a list of Great Albums because it's a compilation (and it doesn't) then African Herbsman doesn't for the same reason.

Soul Rebels also has a compilation feel to it, it is the work of a band who were used to recording and releasing 45s for years as that's what their audience wanted at that time and place.

 

Both albums have been chopped up, repackaged, regurgitated and sold in every way possible by every chancer with a CDRW drive as the copyright protection on most of The Wailers stuff is virtually non-existant. It always breaks my heart to look in record shops and see three or four 'Bob Marley's Greatest Hits' compilations, each with variations of the same stuff from the 60s. People who didn't know any better could be taken in and ultimately disappointed.

 

Alot of the best of Markey CDs are there because of him.I work for a man who sold all the shity CDs you see in petrols stations a while back and he told me about who owns the rights to certain artists.When Bob played live he sold the rights to concerts each night,the thing was there was no record as it was all cash deals to avoid tax and he sold the rights to various people on the same night.

There would be 3 or 4 recordings of the same concerts.

[Karl_b]

The vibe of the nominations has definitely moved from naming bands which have released at least two great, widely renowned records in to artist which have released at least two great, seminal records. Which is a total game changer.

 

As per Paul's comment about nominating recent artists, it's very difficult to guess which will have a lasting impact but if we were just naming great albums then there's a much wider scope.

 

I blame lack of clarity in the opening post!

[WaltonRed]

Neil Young

[cochyn]

Some cracking shouts up there. I'd say the following are worth a mention;

 

Flaming Lips - Soft Bulletin & At War with the Mystics

Prince - Purple Rain, Sign o' the Times

Def Leppard - Pyromania & Hysteria - (seriously)!!

Tom Waits - Sowrdfishtrombones & Small Change

ZZ Top - Tres Hombres & Eliminator/ Afterburner

 

But I'mm gonna stick to what I know, and argue the case for:

 

Faith No More - Tore Rock/Metal a new arsehole with 'The Real Thing' and gained massive cross-over and mainstream appeal to boot. Then followed up with an even better album in 'Angel Dust' which despite lacking TRT's sales has eclipsed it as a landmark rock/ metal album and mainstream 'cult' classic.

 

Metallica - Master of Puppets & Metallica. The first is a stone cold classic in anyone's eyes and cemented the band's place at the top of the metal genre. 'Metallica' was a fairly brave diversion from fan's expectations and ended up being their truly massive album, influencing a generation of more melodic, structured metal that was accessible yet definably filthy.

[Cliff T. Beast]

Pantera - Vulgar Display of Power, Great Southern Trend Kill.

Slayer - Reign in Blood, South of Heaven, Seasons in the Abyss.

Metallica - Ride the Lightening, Master of Puppets.

Megadeth - Peace Sells, Rust in Peace, So Far, So Good, So What.

Mastodon - Leviathan, Crack The Skye, The Hunter.

Opeth - Damnatio, Watershed, Heritage.

Queen - Night at the Opera, Day at the Races.

Pink Floyd - Wish you Here, Animals, Dark Side of the Moon

Black Sabbath - Paranoid, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

Lamb of God - Wrath, Sacrement, Ashes of the Wake.

Weezer - Blue album, Green album, Pinkerton

Deftones - White Pony, Around the Fur

[Seamus]

I think what Paul is getting at is contemporary artists aren't producing albums in the same league as massive acts of yesteryear in terms of regard, sales, airplay and legacy.

 

I was pondering this the other day after reading Kasabian had smashed to the top of the charts with velociraptor by selling....90,000 copies. Dunno how many Noel G has sold but NME were mentioning 50,000 the other day - 1997, Be Here Now sold 8 million!

 

So did people stop listening to albums as soon as it became a piece of piss to stick 3 or 4 tracks on an ipod and fire the 'boring' ones off? Or even more intriguing - back in the day did people learn to love albums just because they couldn't be arsed knocking the needle on? My gran loves to babble on about seeing the beatles 15 times but has she ever heard tomorrow never knows? She bought revolver, sgt peppers etc thus adding to the mammoth amounts of record sales but I've never heard her humming Within You Without You!

 

Oh back on topic I need to nominate Leftfield, second album may not be as well known but its fuckin brilliant and at the time got great reviews in the old dance music press and the sound system tour was fucking thumping. So there. I reckon the first two slipknot albums might have a shout, they had wide mainstream acceptance and still felt like being hit in the face by a spade (which is good).

 

Beady Eye's second albums out after crimbo too :whistle:

[ThewaytoRome]

The national, always the national

[Pidge]

The Pogues need to be on this list.

 

Social Distortion? Quite possibly.

 

Repped.

[TheDrowningMan]

Tom Waits - Swordfishtrombones & Small Change

 

I was just about to mention Waits. There are several other albums you could make a case for, too (Rain Dogs and Alice are stone cold classics in my view) and he's still being ridiculously good at 61 with his latest, Bad As Me. It's too early to judge definitively, but my early impression is that it's at least as good as anything he's released in the last 25 years.

[Total Longo]

Paul's Boutique had no impact at all when it was released. In fact most people were saying the group were finished; they'd disappeared up their own arses. Clearly, it's improved with age to the point where people now cite its influence but Ill Communication was - and is - a far better record with a far greater reach and impact, in my opinion. It's easily their best album.

 

Agreed, "Check Your Head" is up there with it as well, two brilliantly diverse records.

[Red '84]

Have some rep for your fine taste but that's nonsense. Say what you want about the quality of The Wailing Wailers but Bob recorded his finest work for Island. Those albums would make very few top 20s

 

If Legend doesn't belong on a list of Great Albums because it's a compilation (and it doesn't) then African Herbsman doesn't for the same reason.

Soul Rebels also has a compilation feel to it, it is the work of a band who were used to recording and releasing 45s for years as that's what their audience wanted at that time and place.

 

Both albums have been chopped up, repackaged, regurgitated and sold in every way possible by every chancer with a CDRW drive as the copyright protection on most of The Wailers stuff is virtually non-existant. It always breaks my heart to look in record shops and see three or four 'Bob Marley's Greatest Hits' compilations, each with variations of the same stuff from the 60s. People who didn't know any better could be taken in and ultimately disappointed.

 

i´d dispute that and i´m sure i wouldnt be the only one that would say that the first few years of the 70s produced his best music, or the purest music certainly. bob, bunny wailer and peter tosh were a dream together, add in the barretts on rhythm with lee perry producing- musical heaven right there!

 

its a fair point on the album as a concept though, that was a late development in reggae compared to other types of music although soul rebels was released as an album in its own right whereas african herbsman was maybe released in a few different forms.

 

my major gripe about the island years is that chris blackwell was focussed on making bob into a world star which was perfectly fine and he obviously achieved this but i just think it altered a sound that he had perfected with lee perry and the upsetters. also bunny wailer and pete tosh were irreplacable.

 

common theme? bob was ace as is riddim king family man barrett!

[Stu Monty]

Melons has pre-emptively negged me on this thread but then not made a comment, which has confused me greatly. I saw it in my User CP and just presumed she'd then said something about Radiohead she knew I'd not approve of; but no, nothing.

 

She's fucking with a brother's head.

[Lee909]

Not sure if they have been mentioned.

 

Lynyrd Synyrd

Pronounced 'l?h-'nérd 'skin-'nérd and Street Survivors

 

The Allman Brothers band

Now I'm the first to admit to worshiping at the altar of the sky dog but there albums with Duane all immense

The Allman brothers band

Idlewild south

At Filmore East

Eat a Peach

 

I'm not even going into the amount of great albums by BB King,Waylon Jennings,Willie Nelson and the old blues stars.

[memyselfandpie]

I'm going to bump this one folks. I have loved all three albums from Bon Iver.

 

- For Emma, Forever ago

- Bon Iver

- 22, A Million

 

I'm bumping this for the last one as I can't stop playing it in my car. It is getting inside my head in a very good and very big way, it is taking me somewhere else completely. It took a second listen but since then, jeez Louise, I have not questioned it. Brilliant (as are the other two).

[TheHowieLama]

Paul's Boutique had no impact at all when it was released. In fact most people were saying the group were finished; they'd disappeared up their own arses. Clearly, it's improved with age to the point where people now cite its influence but Ill Communication was - and is - a far better record with a far greater reach and impact, in my opinion. It's easily their best album.

 

 

Oh my.