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Shelvey.

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In what way have I not explained why I disagree on this thread?

 

How do you personally measure if a player has improved? You are dismissing all other measures but have not proffered one yourself.

 

The logic for me is a player is improving by continually playing at a higher level. Clearly this isn't the case for you, so what is your measure?

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How do you personally measure if a player has improved? You are dismissing all other measures but have not proffered one yourself.

 

The logic for me is a player is improving by continually playing at a higher level. Clearly this isn't the case for you, so what is your measure?

 

His individual skills gets better and his decision making gets better which again makes him a better player for the team.

 

He should also be able to recreate the good performances on a more consistent level than earlier.

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I mean that if a player has signed for a PL club and later be loaned to a Championship club its not really much of an achievement to get back to the club after his loan spell since thats actually his club.

 

 

If a player is not getting playing time for a prem club, gets sent away to a Ch'ship club on loan and then comes back and plays for his parent club, I'd say that is an achievement. Also justifies the loan period.

 

By merely signing for a prem club does not mean you have made it by any stretch.

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His individual skills gets better and his decision making gets better which again makes him a better player for the team.

 

Well, yes, obviously. But the evidence of this is surely the level the player is playing at and if that level is on an upward curve, that is evidence the player is improving!

 

But I now give up with you on this, Code! Nice fella you appear to be an' all!

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Well, yes, obviously. But the evidence of this is surely the level the player is playing at and if that level is on an upward curve, that is evidence the player is improving!

 

But I now give up with you on this, Code! Nice fella you appear to be an' all!

 

A players individual performances are the only thing to suggest if he has improved or not.

 

Just because a player is bought by a club and gets playing time does not mean he actually belong on that level, we have way to many examples of that just at our own club the last couple of years.

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Some of the shite aimed at Code on this thread is basically disgraceful and in the most part bullying, the fact he takes it on the chin does not justify it in any way at all, If you don't agree with him fair enough but the shit that's being retorted to him is fucking not on.

 

He's a condescending arse who deserves all the shit which comes his way.

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A players individual performances are the only thing to suggest if he has improved or not.

 

But you have nothing to go on with these young kids going on loan, because you would not have seen them playing before the loan to know what their standards were. How much had you, or any of us, seen of Walker, Cleverly, Bannan or Coleman etc before their loans to the Championship? I reckon not a lot if at all, so how can you say that they didn't improve?

 

What we do know is that they weren't playing regularly in the Prem before their loans, but following their loans they were, and to a decent standard, no doubt helped by their experience gained the season before, and that is the best evidence we have. The fact that it may not have been with their parent club is not the point, because their next loan was another step in their development, and their performances during their time in the Championship would have helped secure their loans in the Prem. Do you think Ferguson would send Cleverly to Watford if it wasn't going to not only improve the player, but be of benefit to Utd as well?

 

Perhaps after this loan if he plays well enough, a Prem team will be prepared to take a punt on Shelvey to take him on another loan, but that is unlikely to happen until they have seen him playing competitive football. Do you think it is easy to find a team in the Prem to loan a player to where they are going to get the games to make it worthwhile? How many young players have had loans to a Prem side where they have had a decent number of games without being loaned to a lower league before hand? Off the top of my head I can think of Sturridge who was already 21 and had 30-40 Prem games under his belt and Wilshere who has been regarded for a number of years now as Englands most promising young player. So which teams in the Prem do we realistically think would be prepared to take a risk on Shelvey on loan where he will get a decent amount of playing time?

 

Training with better players does not fully prepare young players for competitive football. The extra effort and intensity that is put in by all involved, having a phsical battle with someone bigger and stronger than them, the split second decision making under pressure, the pressure of playing in front of big crowds, the knowledge of what is required to play 90 minutes of high pressure football week in week out, knowing when to pass and what pass to make in a match situation. Things like that and the confidence they can bring are learnt through match experience. Also, people learn from their mistakes, and younger players are more likely to make mistakes, so at least the mistakes they are learning from are not in the spotlight and the pressure of the Premier League, and where their mistakes are less likely to be punished.

 

And one final thing, even if he does not make it here and we decide to sell, he is at least getting in the shop window and we are likely to be able to get a higher transfer fee for him than we would if he had not been out on loan.

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But you have nothing to go on with these young kids going on loan, because you would not have seen them playing before the loan to know what their standards were. How much had you, or any of us, seen of Walker, Cleverly, Bannan or Coleman etc before their loans to the Championship? I reckon not a lot if at all, so how can you say that they didn't improve?

 

What we do know is that they weren't playing regularly in the Prem before their loans, but following their loans they were, and to a decent standard, no doubt helped by their experience gained the season before, and that is the best evidence we have. The fact that it may not have been with their parent club is not the point, because their next loan was another step in their development, and their performances during their time in the Championship would have helped secure their loans in the Prem. Do you think Ferguson would send Cleverly to Watford if it wasn't going to not only improve the player, but be of benefit to Utd as well?

 

Perhaps after this loan if he plays well enough, a Prem team will be prepared to take a punt on Shelvey to take him on another loan, but that is unlikely to happen until they have seen him playing competitive football. Do you think it is easy to find a team in the Prem to loan a player to where they are going to get the games to make it worthwhile? How many young players have had loans to a Prem side where they have had a decent number of games without being loaned to a lower league before hand? Off the top of my head I can think of Sturridge who was already 21 and had 30-40 Prem games under his belt and Wilshere who has been regarded for a number of years now as Englands most promising young player. So which teams in the Prem do we realistically think would be prepared to take a risk on Shelvey on loan where he will get a decent amount of playing time?

 

Training with better players does not fully prepare young players for competitive football. The extra effort and intensity that is put in by all involved, having a phsical battle with someone bigger and stronger than them, the split second decision making under pressure, the pressure of playing in front of big crowds, the knowledge of what is required to play 90 minutes of high pressure football week in week out, knowing when to pass and what pass to make in a match situation. Things like that and the confidence they can bring are learnt through match experience. Also, people learn from their mistakes, and younger players are more likely to make mistakes, so at least the mistakes they are learning from are not in the spotlight and the pressure of the Premier League, and where their mistakes are less likely to be punished.

 

And one final thing, even if he does not make it here and we decide to sell, he is at least getting in the shop window and we are likely to be able to get a higher transfer fee for him than we would if he had not been out on loan.

Good Post. Its a win win for player and club, surely?

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Kenny agrees

 

Kenny: We'll reap loan benefits - Liverpool FC

 

Kenny Dalglish has explained why he believes Liverpool will reap the long-term benefits of utilising the loan system following Jonjo Shelvey's move to Blackpool.

 

The 19-year-old moved to the Championship side last week, signing a temporary deal until December 31.

 

Shelvey wasted little time in making an impact after he scored with a sensational free-kick on his debut in a 5-0 victory over Bristol City on Saturday - and Dalglish believes the loan can play a fundamental role in the midfielder's development.

 

The boss told Liverpoolfc.tv: "It's helpful to everybody. Jonjo's a very promising player for us, but the difficulty for us is to get him a game.

 

"He needs games and it's a fantastic opportunity for Jonjo to do that. Blackpool have got a good quality player and it's educational for us because we'll get to see him play.

 

"It'll also be educational for Jonjo because he's playing at a good level with a good club - and another real bonus for him is he doesn't have to move house.

 

"It is important for us to use as many opportunities as we can to develop the players - if we can't give them games here, then we've got to look to get them playing somewhere else.

 

"For Jonjo it's a chance for us to see him, and for him to develop and push harder for a first-team spot here.

 

"We've put him out because we want him educated and to see him develop, not because we want to see him go. It's purely progress for him.

 

"The loan system has got various options to it that you can use it for. In Jonjo's case, it is purely for his development and benefit, and also for our benefit."

 

Shelvey's switch to Blackpool meant he became the seventh Liverpool player currently out on loan, joining Alberto Aquilani (AC Milan), Joe Cole (Lille), Dani Pacheco (Atletico Madrid), Peter Gulacsi (Hull), Stephen Darby (Rochdale) and David Amoo (Bury).

 

Dalglish has revealed Liverpool keep a watchful eye on their players lent to other teams and believes each of the deals provide a range of benefits for both player and club alike.

 

"They're not forgotten - we know what's going on," explained the Scot. "We get a summary of what games they've played in, what they've done, how they've done and how the club they're with are feeling about it.

 

"We keep monitoring them so we know where we're going. In some instances, for Alberto, it's an opportunity for him to go back home and if he does well then they'll purchase him.

 

"For Joe Cole, it was a fantastic opportunity for him to go and play Champions League football and also in France, which is a league that I think will suit wee Joe down to the ground and he's done really well since he's gone there.

 

"There are a lot of benefits for Peter Gulacsi. It's useful for him as he's not in the team at the moment, but when he gets back in he'll play games at a higher level than what we can give him.

 

"There are benefits for everybody, but the most important thing is it is helpful for the players and if they can't get a game here, then if it's possible we'll put them out on loan if it suits."

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"There are a lot of benefits for Peter Gulacsi. It's useful for him as he's not in the team at the moment, but when he gets back in he'll play games at a higher level than what we can give him.

 

It's a shame Gulacis lost his place as he started the first few games. Let in some very soft goals but also made some really good saves from the games I saw of him. He did come on as a last minute sub in Hull's last game though so their other keeper may have picked up an injury which will keep him out.

 

Still good for him to be competing for the number 1 spot though rather than being a full time understudy.

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Would be good for Wilson to go out and get some games as well, although I suspect we're keeping hold for the time being on the basis that we only have Robinson as back up for Enrique right now.

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Would be good for Wilson to go out and get some games as well, although I suspect we're keeping hold for the time being on the basis that we only have Robinson as back up for Enrique right now.

 

And Fabio Au... oh, nevermind.

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how is pacheco doing at atletico madrid?

 

Been loaned out by Athletico to Rayo apparently. Unsure how the hell that works

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So with a few more games under his belt, is he still the best player to ever grace the Championship or has he not really been standing out at all?

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So with a few more games under his belt, is he still the best player to ever grace the Championship or has he not really been standing out at all?

 

Bloody hell Codey, why have you bumped this thread?

 

If I were you I'd be pretending it had never happened - there was a queue about a hundred long of people waiting patiently to hand you your arse. One after another.

 

Still, it's quite a funny read, so thanks anyway.

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This isn't oblivious. It's perverse. I can't fucking believe it.

 

Its oblivious to him. He's bumping threads where he has looked a complete mong.

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I wonder if this thread will be enough to effect a change in Code?

 

Because it's been brutal. He's been eviscerated.

 

I think it will. I'm convinced of the fact. Never been surer about anything.

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Bloody hell Codey, why have you bumped this thread?

 

 

People were saying Shelvey would walk that league etc after one goal in his first performance against rock bottom Bristol City, so considering he has been subtituted in his next two games in the 72nd and 56th minute being 4-0 and 1-0 down, is he still walking the league?

 

The Championship is about his level and I doubt he will be a class above anyone really, considering all the games he got for us last season you would have hoped he would easily be among the best players in this league, if not we could just start to bring in every half decent players from that league and throw him into our team.

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People were saying Shelvey would walk that league etc after one goal in his first performance against rock bottom Bristol City, so considering he has been subtituted in his next two games in the 72nd and 56th minute being 4-0 and 1-0 down, is he still walking the league?

 

The Championship is about his level and I doubt he will be a class above anyone really, considering all the games he got for us last season you would have hoped he would easily be among the best players in this league, if not we could just start to bring in every half decent players from that league and throw him into our team.

 

Well said. I'd be amazed if anybody on here could provide any examples at all of players benefiting from going on loan to championship clubs. I'm sure we can all give an informed opinion on how hes been playing as i'm sure we've all watched blackpools recent matches. I know I have. Wouldn't miss em for the world.

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