Lucas has not improved.

[moof]

it's a little unfair to list the likes of gerrard or any other attacking midfielder as better than lucas because that isn't the job lucas has been asked to do, however the job lucas IS asked to do he does in a very vanilla, meh, blah kind of way. in mash you had a destroyer who hunted for the ball high up the pitch thus the attacking players received the ball faster and in alonso you had a destroyer who had a player who shielded the defensive but had the ability to start attacks from the back and hurt team from a deep position.

 

lucas does neither, he isn't the most mobile of players, he is pounderous and takes far too long to release the ball (a weakness manu exploited time and time) and he doesn't have the strength to shield the ball.

I think lucas is reasonably competent in what he does but I don't think he has the ability to allow us to dominate games especially away from home.

 

I'd be tempted to go with a midfield three of henderson, adam and gerrard, because whilst none of them would sheild the defense as well as lucas (you may disagree but that how I see it) all three of them without question carry more of a threat and if we occupy the opposition half then that gives them less chance to get at our defense.

 

bottom line is I don't think lucas is as bad as we make out because we can field a team that doesn't include him and carry more of a threat going forwards and then defend as a unit when we lose the ball rather than relie on a dedicated holding midfielder.

 

We've dominated plenty of games with Lucas playing.

 

It's one bad game being used as a stick to beat him with. Let's wait until he has at least 4 or 5 bad games in a row.

 

I can count his poor games over the last 18 months/2 years on one hand.

[spider-neil]

We've dominated plenty of games with Lucas playing.

 

It's one bad game being used as a stick to beat him with. Let's wait until he has at least 4 or 5 bad games in a row.

 

I can count his poor games over the last 18 months/2 years on one hand.

 

if you're talking about home games, more often than not the opposition will give us the ball sit deep and ask us to break them down. how many away games have we dominanted with lucas as the holding midfielder?

[moof]

if you're talking about home games, more often than not the opposition will give us the ball sit deep and ask us to break them down. how many away games have we dominanted with lucas as the holding midfielder?

 

4-1 away at the mancs is probably the first example. Just off the top of my head, Stoke and the bitters this season, Fulham, Sunderland, Chelsea, Wolves last season. I'm not going to go through all of our away games with Lucas starting but there are 7 examples off the top of my head where we've dominated.

 

I don't want this to descend into an argument btw, just stating that we're more than capable of dominating with Lucas in the team imo.

[TheResonator]

words

 

I'm not going to respond to all of that, suffice to say that you have totally misread pretty much everything I've put across.

 

You seem to have read from what I've posted that I think stats are the be all and end all. No idea where you've got that from. All I said was that they serve a purpose when arguing with people who level broad criticisms against a player which can be, in the manners I previously listed, factually disproven to some degree.

 

That is not to say that they are a definitive qualifier of the merits of the player, but that in some cases they can offer an indication of their positive or negative qualities. I think that's a fair enough stance. The rest of your discourse on statistics was entirely tautological and inferred that I held a position I have never held nor indicated that I did so, so a complete waste of time basically.

 

As for accusing me of getting personal, yes, it's precisely 'personal' because I don't take issue with your argument, I take issue with the way you present your part in it. Really, though, I only care about that in as much as condescending hypocrisy is something that winds me up, which is a difference of character and not opinion.

 

Needless to say, you've continued in the same tone, accusing me of taking your comments too seriously when you've just written War and Peace in response.

 

I think what you'll probably agree with is that it's a waste of time for us to carry this on much longer. I doubt either of us, or anybody else, will find it particularly edifying.

[Delmar]

This is interesting, in a morbid kind of way. Two posters, that I respect, arguing between each other over nothing much, and usual idiots adding nothing, as usual, to the thread.

 

Lucas, well, he sems to divide opinion just as Benitez did. To me he is exactly like what Liverpool players used to be in the 70s and 80s. Sammy Lee, Ray Kennedy, Houghton, and so on, a good honest pro. It's all that I can ask, all that I asked back then.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Lucas is a good boy.

[stringvest]

I'm sure you're quite correct. Try as I might though, I can't think of anything mean to say about you.

 

I think I've just been a little sick in my trousers.

[AussieRed]

That's my point, I do rate the DM position personally and love seeing multi-talented players in there. Hamann's ability was physical but also mental, he read things so well.

But my point is that you can also hide there, which Lucas does. Nothing's expected of a player there. When a goal is conceded, it's not directly ever his fault, nobody expects any assists from him, nobody expects any goals from him, very average players can hide there for years if a manager isn't careful.

It the only position on the pitch that offers that protection, where you can't be measured properly, there's always an excuse, always a reason why you don't have to have the best tackle %, or don't have to have perfect pass completion, and so on.

If we continue to waste the DM position, like we do with Lucas, then we'll not kick-on as a team.

 

He hides by making more tackles than anyone in the league and playing more passes than most in the team? Idiotic comments like these really display the lack of footballing knowledge fans have. He is probably involved in more play than any player in our team.

 

I'll interpret. For a sky football 'modern' fan, "He hides." means, "He doesn't do step overs, or hit 40 yard passes or slide tackle everyone."

 

Many fans confuse hiding, with discipline. We have other players to do the other things. We need Lucas to be in the right place at the right time.

[Dracco]

Wow, can't believe what I am reading. Lucas was fine today. Thought he had a really good first half, broke up a lot in the midfield and was always available to take a pass and move play on. He was taken off to prevent him being sent off. Seriously, a few of you need to take off your blinkers because Lucas is the least of our problems.

 

Sorry mate...but you probably didn´t see the first half at all. He was AWFUL.

 

He couldn´t make a simple 10 yard pass, all his attempts were interecepted with easy and I don´t talk about creative passes but simple back or side passes. Go and watch the game again, I did it yesterday.

 

If Henderson or Skrtel or some other not mystified players played as terrible as he did , then majority of the posters would calll for them to be sold.

[Gym Beglin]

And that's the way you deal with the Lucas fan club.

You tell them to watch the first half again. And then you walk away.

[nedved11]

Yeah, but the problem is: you're a fucking *moron*

 

hehe maybe to some ...

 

but am not a "well known" moron for all the guys around here like your ugly self

[Einch]

And that's the way you deal with the Lucas fan club.

You tell them to watch the first half again. And then you walk away.

 

With massive exaggerations to ensure the "debate" continues? I agree he had a bad game but Dracco's "every 10 yard pass" bollocks is just that. Bollocks. Lucas deserved to be hooked on Saturday because he played badly and would probably have got sent off. That's about it in the context of that game.

[aRdja]

From LFC.TV

 

In midfield Lucas Leiva played the most passes with 59 and was also the most accurate on 81.4 per cent. 11.9 per cent of his efforts were long passes - again more than any of his midfield pals

[aRdja]

Taken from Sambafoot:

Last week, Sambafoot had the opportunity to interview Liverpool FC star Lucas Leiva at the club's Melwood training ground. Below is the full transcript of the interview conducted by Sean Mullan.

What do you think of the way Liverpool have started the new Premier League season?

 

Well I think of course we would have liked to start better, at the moment we would like to be in a better position. I think we had a few very good games when we played really well, but unfortunately we lost a few points, especially at home. That is always crucial, but we had new players who came at the beginning of the season, so we are quite a new team, and hopefully in the next few games and across the season we will finish on a high. But at the start of the season we would like to be in a better position at the moment.

Are you confident the side will achieve the target of a top four finish?

I think so. I think we are capable of finishing in the top four. We know there are a lot of teams who will fight for the place, like Arsenal, Tottenham, ourselves. Newcastle are doing really well at the moment, and Chelsea, they are always there. We have to make sure, as I said especially in the games at home, we get the points, and go away from home and try to get some points as well, and I think we will be fine.

It must have been a very satisfying moment for you personally winning the fans’ player of the year award last season, after a bit of a difficult start to your career in England?

I’m really happy with the way I’m playing, the role I have in the team. When I came to Liverpool, I was always looking to be an important player and I think step-by-step I’m getting there and hopefully that will stay the same for the next few years.

During those first couple of seasons when the fans were on your back a bit, did you think the criticism was a bit unfair, especially considering you were such a young player moving to a new country?

I don’t know if it was fair or not. To be honest, I didn’t think about that. I just thought about improving as a player, tried to work hard and be a better player, and adapt to the style of English football. Of course it took a while, but I really feel comfortable now and I just try not to talk about it too much, because it’s in the past now and it helped me to become a stronger player and a better person.

What for you is the biggest difference between the English style and how you were used to playing in Brazil?

It’s the pace of the game. Here, it’s quicker and more physical. There’s more contact, and the referees let that go on in the game more than in Brazil. I found that hard when I first came, but I had to adapt and if I wanted to achieve good things at the club, and now as I said, I feel really comfortable at the moment.

After winning that individual award of fans’ player of the year, how keen are you now to win a trophy with Liverpool?

When you play for Liverpool, you are always looking to win titles, and with me it’s no different. It’s been four or five years since Liverpool last won a trophy, so the next team that achieves that and wins a trophy will be in the history of the club, and I am really looking forward to doing that. Hopefully it will be soon.

You’ve got Stoke in the Carling Cup this week. Some clubs use the competition as a chance to play some of their youngsters, but Kenny Dalglish has been picking some strong teams so far and taking the competition very seriously. How important to do well in the cup competitions this season?

It’s clear that because we are not playing any European games that we are taking the cup games very seriously and approaching them well. We have so far had difficult draws away from home, and Stoke is another very hard opponent. Even in the Premier League, all the big clubs lose points there. We lost to them this season in the league, but in the cup it is a different situation. We just have to go there and try to win, and as I said, everybody here in the team is looking forward to winning a cup, so why not win the Carling Cup?

Are the players missing playing in European competition?

I think every player would like to be involved in European competition. I think it’s important for the club and for the players as well. The atmosphere is always very good, especially at Anfield, where the European games are always special. But we have to concentrate on the Premier League games and the cup as well, and try to get back into Europe for next season.

This is your fifth season at Anfield. Do you see yourself staying here for the rest of your career?

When I came, I didn’t imagine that I would stay here for seven or eight years, but if I finish my current contract I will have been here about that long, so why not more? It’s just a question of being comfortable and happy, and if the manager is happy with you, and has you in his plans. I don’t like to be moving too much, and I’m really happy at the moment, but in football every week is different, so you have to see what happens. But as I said, I’m really happy, and can’t see why I wouldn’t stay here for many more years.

Would you ever like to return to play in Brazil before you retire?

Yeah, I definitely would like to. Of course at the moment it is not my plan to come back to Brazil, but I would like to before I retire. Maybe to play at Gremio again, my former club. That’s where everything started. But I still have many years to play, and many things to happen before I retire, so I think it may take a while.

Would Gremio be the only team in Brazil you would consider playing for?

At the moment I don’t think about even going back to Brazil to play yet. It would not be my first option at the moment. If you are happy at a club and you feel comfortable, then you have no reason to want to move. I said Gremio because I know the people and the club. It’s a big club in Brazil, and gave me everything I needed to play well. It’s hard to say another club at the moment because I don’t know what will happen, but we never know what is going to happen in the future.

You’re one of only four Brazilian players to make over 100 appearances in the Premier League. Why do you think that Brazilian players don’t stay in England as long as they do in countries such as Spain or Italy?

I think firstly the style of football is different. As I said, I had to change my style a little bit to do well in the Premier League. Maybe a few Brazilian players don’t want to change their style. Also, England as a county is different. Spain and Italy are more similar to Brazil, and life there is more similar, which is why most of the Brazilian players choose to go to Spain or Italy. But we have a lot of Brazilians players playing in England now, which means Brazilian players are adapting better than before to the Premier League.

Moving on to the Brazil national team, what went wrong in the Copa America?

It’s always hard to say, but of course we would have liked to have won the Copa America. The game against Paraguay; I don’t think we deserved to lose. I don’t think Paraguay had a shot on target. With the penalties, it was just a bad day, and we were very unlucky that we missed all the penalties. It’ a new team, new players, and it’s always really hard to build a new team, especially with the national team when you don’t train together a lot. The target is the World Cup, and we have to take this experience from the Copa America and take it to the next games in the Confederations Cup and then the World Cup.

How disappointing for you was it to end your first senior tournament with Brazil with a red card?

I don’t think I did too much wrong to get a red card. It was just an argument between players, and I think the referee chose two players to send off. Unfortunately, I was picked by him. It was disappointing, because when you make a bad foul or something like that you can understand, but you just have to move forward and try to learn from it.

Going into the tournament, there was a lot of hype surrounding Neymar and Ganso. Do you think there was too much pressure on them for such young players?

I think so. As I said, it’s a new team, and when the new manager is trying to build a new team, normally the press will pick a few players that will be in the headlines more often. We know Ganso and Neymar are very talented players and they are doing really well in Brazil. Even before, the press were asking about them going to the World Cup in 2010. They are the future of the national team, and I think the pressure is always really high. They did well, but it just didn’t work for everybody.

The results are starting to improve for Brazil now, with four wins in the last five games. Do you think that this is linked to the return of Ronaldinho, or is it something else?

Of course. He’s a key player. He has experience. We don’t need to talk about his quality, because his career has been fantastic for many years. He’s playing in Brazil now, so maybe the people in Europe might have forgotten him, but he’s doing really well over there and still scoring goals. I think he brought more quality and experience to the national team, which is really helpful for the young players, and he will be one of the key players for Brazil in the next few years.

A lot of people are putting pressure on Brazil to win the 2014 World Cup as hosts. Do you think not winning the competition would be seen as a failure?

I don’t think the people in Brazil think of any other option than being champions, especially being hosts. The pressure being very high could be good or bad. As a team, we have to prepare and approach it well over the next few years, and we will be ready as a team and able to cope with the pressure we will have in Brazil.

Brazil have got no competitive games now until the 2013 Confederations Cup. Do you see that as a positive, as Mano Menezes has plenty of chances to try out new players and new formations, or a negative, due to the lack of competitive match practice?

You have good things about it, because the manager can give chances to many players and change formation, and do whatever he would like to. But not playing competitive games is always hard because you want to play a three-point match with the atmosphere of an official game, so we are taking all our friendly matches very seriously. In the last game, we were a man down against Mexico and we won. If we were treating it like a friendly, maybe we would not have been able to win that game. We took it really seriously, which is the only way we will be ready for the World Cup.

How proud would you feel to play for Brazil as they host the World Cup?

Well first I just need to make sure I stay in the squad! If I have a chance to play it would be a dream. Playing a World Cup in your home country with your family, and all the Brazilians watching and supporting the team; I think it would be an amazing atmosphere. I hope I do well until then and have a chance to play.

There are a lot of good, young, promising players coming through in Brazil at the moment. We mentioned Neymar and Ganso, but also the likes of Leandro Damiao and Lucas Moura. If you could sign one player currently playing in Brazil for Liverpool, who would you choose and why?

I think at the moment Neymar is the most important player in Brazil. He’s got everything that a player needs. He’s got ability, pace, he works really hard, and you can see from his stats that he doesn’t like to miss any games, and he always wants to be involved. He’s very young, and I think he will improve as a player, so at the moment I would pick him. But I don’t think he’d be cheap to sign!

These young players are all being linked with moves to Europe. From your own experience, how hard is it to move from your home country when you’re that young to go and play for one of the biggest clubs in the world, and what advice would you give to those players if they were to move?

When I moved, I had to be patient and try to settle as quickly as possible. They will have to learn the language and change the way they play, because every county has its own style. In Spain, it’s not easier, but maybe more similar. But if you move to England, you have to be patient and work hard to adapt well and quickly.

In the past some young Brazilian players have struggled initially when moving to Europe. Do you think that the current big name youngsters might be better off waiting for a move when they’re a bit older, so they have more experience and are better suited to handling the pressure?

I think it would be a good idea for them, but even if they move when they are 23 or 24, they will still have to adapt and change the style of their game. If they move earlier, they may have more time to settle. If they move when they are older, maybe they won’t have that time that they would need. You just have to decide whatever you think is best. In life you have to make decisions, and sometimes it goes right and sometimes it goes wrong. But you have to cope and try to do whatever you need to.

Are you still following how Gremio are getting on in the Brazilian Championship?

Yeah, I still follow them. At the moment they are not doing very well. They are in mid-table, but they are better than they were at the beginning, because they were quite close to the relegation zone. Hopefully next season will be better for them.

What do you make of the title race in Brazil at the moment?

It’s amazing. This season has been incredible, because there are six teams that could maybe win the Championship with seven games to go. Every weekend I watch the games on television, because it’s so amazing. The league is so competitive, and people are enjoying playing there, and you can see a few big players who choose to come back because it has been a very competitive league.

Do you think that having so many teams involved in a title race so late on in the season makes Brazil are more exciting place than somewhere like England, where usually towards the end of the season it’s usually only two or three teams?

This season it’s been like this in Brazil, but in previous seasons it was more or less the same as in England, with maybe three or four teams fighting for the title. This season has been quite different in Brazil, and it’s interesting, because when you can see six or seven teams that can win the championship it’s always more exciting. But with the Premier League, even though the favourites are always the same, the smaller teams are always really tough to play against and it makes a really interesting game to watch.

What do you hope to achieve in the rest of your time with Liverpool?

I think winning a title is what I’d like to achieve and what I’m looking forward to. And of course, to always improve as a player and be a successful player in Liverpool’s history.

[Christian]

Thought he had a cracking game vs West Brom.

 

If anything he should be rested now and then, as it's done him some good being suspended for Norwich.

[zigackly]

His pass to Suarez for Carroll's goal was superb.

[PaulMcC]

He's class.

[Whelan]

Thought he had a cracking game vs West Brom.

 

If anything he should be rested now and then, as it's done him some good being suspended for Norwich.

 

He was excellent, and a lot of his good work is reading the game and, filling in when defending i.e. Right back, none of this unfortunately is sexy and shows up on TV

 

He's class.

 

Yes. Succinct and to the point.

[Jairzinho]

Whaddaguy.

[The Dude Abides]

He was simply boss the other day. Pair him up with a midfielder in the Modric mould and we'd have the ideal central midfield imo.

[silverlining]

He was simply boss the other day. Pair him up with a midfielder in the Modric mould and we'd have the ideal central midfield imo.

 

What, so everyone could complain when we get overrun in midfield that "Lucas can't do it all himself?"

 

Parker and Modric works because Parker is a far better player than Lucas and doesn't need help from another CM player who is playing on the right to help out.

[aRdja]

What a clueless mong you are..

[zigackly]

Parker is a better player than Lucas though. Even though Lucas certainly has improved tremendously.

[aRdja]

He's also 7 years older. Lucas had a tremendous game against West Brom, and this guy Brendan just couldn't help himself.

 

At Lucas' age, Parker couldn't get a game for Chelsea. Mourinho preferred fucking Tiago to him FFS. Lucas is consistently bossing games now even against the best of midfields..

[silverlining]

What a clueless mong you are..

 

Parker's a better player than Lucas, you hateful little cunt.