When are we likely to get definitive stadium news?

[FanchesterCity]

No, that's only correct if you swallow xerxes load of tosh.

 

It is more than expanding a football club. It is about re generating a run down area of Liverpool that seriously needs an uplift.

 

CPO's take time when the club is wanting to move ahead a bit quicker. The club are to use an americanism, between a rock and a hard place. Do they shit on the people who accepted the (lower) money offered while giving the 4 landlords who wont budge, a sizeably bigger amount of money?

 

No doubt if they did, the original sellers would comeback saying they've been deceived \ short changed whatever and still xerxes would be spouting his myopic, incorrect and bollocks driven shite.

 

Yes, in theory, but the council then has to show its entire hand.... outlining every aspect of the development it is buying the properties for... and that means the COUNCIL has to buy the properties, and the COUNCIL have the budget in hand to pay for the improvements. They can't be a patsy for LFC.

 

If the council said "We're investing a billion in the area, building a swimming pool, adding a library, job center, playpark, and a business park etc etc" then they'd probably be awarded a CPO, but they aren't doing that are they? (please tell me if they are, you might know otherwise). There's been some improvement already, I understand that, but it's not as part of any obvious grand scheme.

 

What I'm ultimately saying is.... LFC's stadium expansion almost has to be a very minor point in the whole argument, and not the crux of it. The way it's currently portrayed, it's mostly about the stadium expansion, and that won't win a CPO.

[Guest San Don]

Yes, in theory, but the council then has to show its entire hand.... outlining every aspect of the development it is buying the properties for... and that means the COUNCIL has to buy the properties, and the COUNCIL have the budget in hand to pay for the improvements. They can't be a patsy for LFC.

 

If the council said "We're investing a billion in the area, building a swimming pool, adding a library, job center, playpark, and a business park etc etc" then they'd probably be awarded a CPO, but they aren't doing that are they? (please tell me if they are, you might know otherwise). There's been some improvement already, I understand that, but it's not as part of any obvious grand scheme.

 

What I'm ultimately saying is.... LFC's stadium expansion almost has to be a very minor point in the whole argument, and not the crux of it. The way it's currently portrayed, it's mostly about the stadium expansion, and that won't win a CPO.

 

I dont agree with your premise that LFC's plans have to be a major part. Its already a tri partite venture of club, private community and club. It (the club's expansion) is neither the majority nor the minority of the project to re generate the area.

 

As I said, swallow xerxes' bollocks if you want. CPO's are a viable option. They are just not the prefered option because of the baggage that comes with them ie possibly public inquiry \ consultation and inherent delays etc.

[index1000]

We will take that as "don't understand."

is that the royal we mate or are you speaking for both your personalities?

[FanchesterCity]

I dont agree with your premise that LFC's plans have to be a major part. Its already a tri partite venture of club, private community and club. It (the club's expansion) is neither the majority nor the minority of the project to re generate the area.

 

As I said, swallow xerxes' bollocks if you want. CPO's are a viable option. They are just not the prefered option because of the baggage that comes with them ie possibly public inquiry \ consultation and inherent delays etc.

 

I'm not saying they have to be, I'm saying it looks like they are...

 

If the regeneration was going ahead regardless, then the council would be offering to buy the homes, or applying for CPO's based on a firm regeneration project that didn't depend on LFC in any way at all, and the houses purchased might well be a tennis court, or play park now. I think in that circumstance, they'd have no problems getting CPO's.

 

But the moment those houses appear to be part of LFC's stadium project, it starts to look like the CPO's aren't really for the council, but for LFC.

 

You can say it's a combined Council, Community and LFC project, but by default a CPO has to be Council and Community anyway... so only LFC are the added party.... IF the council said it's LFC, Tesco, IBM, and Vauxhall then it would be more credible that it's a real regeneration involving new business partners... but whilst it's just LFC (who are already there) it looks a weak argument, and more like the council is trying to claim regeneration on the back of LFC (not the other way around).

 

I've seen loads of regeneration projects where there's been 3D models on display, outlining new roads, and business parks and they definitely look like convincing plans, but I've never seen one for the Anfield area that details regeneration in any real detail. The most detail has been about stadium expansion, and even that's been vague.

 

With most CPO's you can say with a huge degree of certainty what your home will end up being.... i.e. The New School toilet block, or the McDonalds of a new retail park, but you can't do that with anfield's regeneration... the most likely plan you'll find yourself on is a stadium one.

 

It looks like a deadlock to me... the council don't really have the money for a genuine regeneration project, so can't get the CPO, the club can't get the CPO for a private venture, and the council need the club to expand to give the area a bit of a boost that could help generation in a small way.

[Guest San Don]

I'm not saying they have to be, I'm saying it looks like they are...

 

If the regeneration was going ahead regardless, then the council would be offering to buy the homes, or applying for CPO's based on a firm regeneration project that didn't depend on LFC in any way at all, and the houses purchased might well be a tennis court, or play park now. I think in that circumstance, they'd have no problems getting CPO's.

 

But the moment those houses appear to be part of LFC's stadium project, it starts to look like the CPO's aren't really for the council, but for LFC.

 

You can say it's a combined Council, Community and LFC project, but by default a CPO has to be Council and Community anyway... so only LFC are the added party.... IF the council said it's LFC, Tesco, IBM, and Vauxhall then it would be more credible that it's a real regeneration involving new business partners... but whilst it's just LFC (who are already there) it looks a weak argument, and more like the council is trying to claim regeneration on the back of LFC (not the other way around).

 

I've seen loads of regeneration projects where there's been 3D models on display, outlining new roads, and business parks and they definitely look like convincing plans, but I've never seen one for the Anfield area that details regeneration in any real detail. The most detail has been about stadium expansion, and even that's been vague.

 

With most CPO's you can say with a huge degree of certainty what your home will end up being.... i.e. The New School toilet block, or the McDonalds of a new retail park, but you can't do that with anfield's regeneration... the most likely plan you'll find yourself on is a stadium one.

 

It looks like a deadlock to me... the council don't really have the money for a genuine regeneration project, so can't get the CPO, the club can't get the CPO for a private venture, and the council need the club to expand to give the area a bit of a boost that could help generation in a small way.

 

Im sorry but if you think the plans 'look' like its all about LFC then you arent doing your research or just swallowing the glib shit from xerxes.

 

The plans are about regenerating an area of Liverpool in which the club sits. The club is a part of that re generation as is the council and the local community. You can ignore as much as that as you like but them's the facts.

 

I think you're being disingenuous by saying if it was tesco, IBM, vauxhall and the like. Just where the fuck are these big companies in L4? Non existent unless you want to include a tesco express and LFC is the IBM or Tesco or Vauxhall type company you're looking for.

 

Please, be a little bit more circumspect. You keep banging on about lack of plans or say the plans focus just on LFC. Yes, that was when the two cowboys wanted the stadium in Stanley Park. We are taking a whole new pitch now so why use old plan to supplement your (incorrect) argument about the new regeneration?

 

If you want to make judgements based on ill informed opinion, that's your call. But, just like xerxes' rants doesnt make it correct.

[xerxes]

Yes, in theory, but the council then has to show its entire hand.... outlining every aspect of the development it is buying the properties for... and that means the COUNCIL has to buy the properties, and the COUNCIL have the budget in hand to pay for the improvements. They can't be a patsy for LFC.

 

If the council said "We're investing a billion in the area, building a swimming pool, adding a library, job center, playpark, and a business park etc etc" then they'd probably be awarded a CPO, but they aren't doing that are they? (please tell me if they are, you might know otherwise). There's been some improvement already, I understand that, but it's not as part of any obvious grand scheme.

 

What I'm ultimately saying is.... LFC's stadium expansion almost has to be a very minor point in the whole argument, and not the crux of it. The way it's currently portrayed, it's mostly about the stadium expansion, and that won't win a CPO.

Pretty much spot on.

 

A CPO requires the Council, using public funds, empowered by the Secretary of State.

 

CPO’s are no pushover. If the Council apply, and fail, they bear the costs, same for an Appeal.

 

It is difficult to envisage how the Council, currently closing libraries and care facilities through lack of funds, will be able to claim that public funds should be used to buy property on behalf of multi millionaire Boston businessmen who can well afford to buy them themselves- but would rather that you and I paid instead.

[xerxes]

The plans are about regenerating an area of Liverpool in which the club sits. The club is a part of that re generation as is the council and the local community. You can ignore as much as that as you like but them's the facts.

 

I think you're being disingenuous by saying if it was tesco, IBM, vauxhall and the like. Just where the fuck are these big companies in L4? Non existent unless you want to include a tesco express and LFC is the IBM or Tesco or Vauxhall type company you're looking for.

 

Please, be a little bit more circumspect. You keep banging on about lack of plans or say the plans focus just on LFC. Yes, that was when the two cowboys wanted the stadium in Stanley Park. We are taking a whole new pitch now so why use old plan to supplement your (incorrect) argument about the new regeneration?

 

If you want to make judgements based on ill informed opinion, that's your call.

Like a drunk at closing time you keep on banging your head first on the bar, then on the stool, and finally on the floor.

 

A draft proposal for the regeneration of Anfield has been submitted. The extent to which we will be a part of it remains to be seen. It is not enough simply to join the committee. Fact, not opinion.

 

One of my concerns is that the whole process could easily take five years before we reach the point at which FSG discover whether their CPO gamble has come off, or not. My worry is that by the time we have gone through all this the consented New Anfield stadium will look cheap, but we will have missed the boat, again.

 

I love your football posts, but you are way out of your depth off the pitch.

[stringvest]

There are two from overseas. One is from Gibraltar, can't remember where the other is from. Neither have lived in the house or rented it out. Both want over £250,000.

Those poor poor bastards.

[FanchesterCity]

I'm saying with a regeneration projects, councils will often present a new business park (say) and have deals in the pipeline... with the likes of Tesco, or IBM or whoever.

 

I'll give you an example... Bury regenerated their town center, but secured two key brands M&S and Debenhams for the two largest buildings, before it was even built. CPO's were issued for some properties they needed to build on, but this helped for a more convincing case that the regeneration was very real and was bringing jobs to the area. BIG factors that win CPOs.

 

I'm asking you... what's the big sell for Liverpool council?

 

- Are there any new jobs being created?

- What new businesses are coming or even shown interest in coming?

- Where will they be located?

- What provision have you made for the road changes and additional transport needed (if any is needed)?

- If none is needed, where's the study to support that?

 

The last 'regeneration' stuff claimed 250m was being spent on the area (inc 150m from LFC!!!) so more than half of it coming from a single private enterprise... LFC. That's why I'm saying it looks like a patsy for LFC!

 

The regeneration so far has been pretty ad-hoc.... Keepmoat homes, the primary school and health center etc... and I don't want to diminish the work done, but it's small fry really when talking about serious regeneration.

 

When more than 50% of the money for a regen project is coming from a single private enterprise, the government will question that.... and rightly so... just as they would if it was Tesco offering to pay half the cost to build a few parks, so long as they could expand their store too... the government will argue it's worth Tesco's while to do that, as it would be worth LFC's while.

When more partners are involved, it looks a lot more genuine.... that's why I named some example firms (just examples of businesses that might move to a business park, or build a car plant as part of a regeneration project in an area etc). Obviously, Anfield's not going to get a car plant, but it COULD get a blue chip company there with the right incentives and right business park.

 

Don't get me wrong, I happen to think LFC's the best hope for the area (right now) and if it were up to me, I'd let Liverpool build an even better stadium... because I've seen how that can revitalise an area and attract new businesses and home builders too.

 

And you're right to say Liverpool currently IS Anfield's IBM, but it's already there... as a private enterprise. When a council want's a CPO, it's one thing to say "we going to bring in new jobs and businesses and that why we need the homes", it's quite another to say "the current business that's already here wants to make more money, so that's why we need the homes".

 

I have no problem with Joe Anderson announcing plans for redevelopment, I just still find them vague, and too reliant on LFC. 700 jobs (thereabouts) is a great thing... but for how long, and who's providing them? again, if it's largely LFC... that'll be frowned upon. If it's 700 temporary jobs undertaking roadworks and stadium expansion, then that's not real job creation.

 

Again, I'm not saying those jobs aren't there - I just don't know have the breakdown and understanding of them.  With a lot of other regen projects, the detail is quite specific... "Adidas will base a distribution depo in Trafford docks creating 300 jobs, and the BBC will relocate its studios to the Quay creating 11,000 total jobs, 2000 of which will be from the local region"... that's the detail I'm talking about.

[xerxes]

San Don- on topic;

 

1.Are any details available of the proposed regeneration and our specific part in it?

 

2. On what basis will the council successfully apply for CPO's for LFC to extend a couple of stands for private profit?

[moof]

Fanchester, you've been here long enough to know that if xerxes agrees with you, you're wrong.

[Guest San Don]

San Don- on topic;

 

1.Are any details available of the proposed regeneration and our specific part in it?

 

2. On what basis will the council successfully apply for CPO's for LFC to extend a couple of stands for private profit?

 

Hahaha. Yet more drivel by you!

 

Taking your second point first, you expect me to state the 'basis which the council (will) successfully apply for CPO's' just show what your agenda is.

 

Taking your first point, I know its a particular hobby horse of yours but once again, the club cannot draw up definitive plans for stadium expansion yet and therefore our 'specific part' in it.

 

I dont know why you keep banging on about these plans when all the component parts are not yet ready to detail those plans. The council have put forward high level vision of the regeneration of the Anfield area.

[Big Cheese]

Those poor poor bastards.

 

Ay. If anybody deserves £250,000 plus its the people who actually lived in the houses and lived in the community. Not the chances. Imagine how you'd feel if the club paid two no-marks £250,000 plus and you had lived there for donkeys years and got £70,000. 

 

With the club and council on the same hymn sheet, I'm confident the remaining houses will be sorted soon.

[xerxes]

Hahaha. Yet more drivel by you!

 

Taking your second point first, you expect me to state the 'basis which the council (will) successfully apply for CPO's' just show what your agenda is.

 

Taking your first point, I know its a particular hobby horse of yours but once again, the club cannot draw up definitive plans for stadium expansion yet and therefore our 'specific part' in it.

 

I dont know why you keep banging on about these plans when all the component parts are not yet ready to detail those plans. The council have put forward high level vision of the regeneration of the Anfield area.

So you have no idea about anything- thank you.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Pretty much spot on.

 

A CPO requires the Council, using public funds, empowered by the Secretary of State.

 

CPO’s are no pushover. If the Council apply, and fail, they bear the costs, same for an Appeal.

 

It is difficult to envisage how the Council, currently closing libraries and care facilities through lack of funds, will be able to claim that public funds should be used to buy property on behalf of multi millionaire Boston businessmen who can well afford to buy them themselves- but would rather that you and I paid instead.

There is absolutely no chance that will happen. CPOs are common as muck now.

[xerxes]

Ay. If anybody deserves £250,000 plus its the people who actually lived in the houses and lived in the community. Not the chances. Imagine how you'd feel if the club paid two no-marks £250,000 plus and you had lived there for donkeys years and got £70,000. 

 

With the club and council on the same hymn sheet, I'm confident the remaining houses will be sorted soon.

It does appear that almost all of the ordinary householders have been cynically forced into a corner by the club, which is why there is so much ill-will from the local residents association.

 

As for those remaining, the club may have had the opportunity to buy in the past, but declined to pay the price.It's a game, it's a gamble.

 

There is a very long way to go on this. The club has to acquire the properties. The council has to apply for planning permission for their scheme.There will be objections. We will have to apply for our scheme, there will be objections. If stadium expansion is part of the overall scheme we could be in for a very long wait indeed.

 

It is quite possible that by the time the stadium is expanded it would have been cheaper to build the New Anfield.

[xerxes]

There is absolutely no chance that will happen (that the CPO will fail). CPOs are common as muck now.

CPO's succeed where the relevant criteria are met.Unsurprisingly Councils only apply where they are pretty certain they will be successful.

 

The question here is whether expanding a privately owned stadium for private profit is grounds for a CPO. The answer is no.

 

In order for it to succeed, it will need to be dressed up as part of the overall regeneration package with the club contributing to community facilities etc.If that does not convince, the Council are unlikely to even risk a CPO application.

 

In advance of the Council publishing their draft proposals, the club declaring what the expanded stadium will look like, and the club confirming what physical and financial part it is playing in the overall regeneration proposals it is impossible to guess how this will play out.What it is possible to say is that this will be a long drawn out business.

[xerxes]

Fanchester, you've been here long enough to know that if xerxes agrees with you, you're wrong.

Just because I invariably have to help you out, doesn't mean that others are similarly disadvantaged. ;)

[Dougie Do'ins]

In order for it to succeed, it will need to be dressed up as part of the overall regeneration package with the club contributing to community facilities etc. If that does not convince, the Council are unlikely to even risk a CPO application.

Which is exactly why the CPOs (if needed) will be granted. It has nothing to do with 'dressing it up' as the area is in bad need of investment. There have been shed loads of CPOs in the area over the last 10 years. Remember the three storey Victorian houses that backed onto the park ? All gone now and all in the name of the wider regeneration of the area with a football club attached to it. The demolition of the houses further back down the streets off Back Rockfield Road has already begun. There is absolutely no way the acquisition of ten houses (some already derelict) will stop this project.

 

If I had any concerns, it would be LFCs commitment to it all.

[CWD82]

In order for it to succeed, it will need to be dressed up as part of the overall regeneration package with the club contributing to community facilities etc.If that does not convince, the Council are unlikely to even risk a CPO application.

If only the council and the club had thought of a regeneration scheme

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-23966321

 

Let's hope the poor working class hero landlords get there 400% market value for their properties or better yet halt the regeneration all together.

[xerxes]

If only the council and the club had thought of a regeneration scheme

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-23966321

 

Let's hope the poor working class hero landlords get there 400% market value for their properties or better yet halt the regeneration all together.

We simply do not know where these houses are and whether they are blocking housing and commercial regeneration, in which case the CPO's will pose no problem, or whether they block stadium expansion only, in which case there will be .

 

At the heart of this is the current lack of detail, and how long it will be before it is likely to emerge, then be actioned. Every year we are some £50m down on stadium revenue from the Arsenal and Man U.

 

The longer this goes on, the greater the liklihood that a new stadium would have cost less in terms of original cost and lost revenue.If FSG had approved the consented scheme on arrival, it would have been ready for next season.The redevelopment has been estimated at around £150m. An expanded 60k ground will deliver around an extra £30m a season, it will take at least five years to get consent and a redeveloped ground built, during which time we will have lost £150m in revenue, the last cost for the new stadium was £3oom. So already a half new/half old ground will "cost" us as much as a new one would have.

[Big Cheese]

We simply do not know where these houses are and whether they are blocking housing and commercial regeneration, in which case the CPO's will pose no problem, or whether they block stadium expansion only, in which case there will be .

 

At the heart of this is the current lack of detail, and how long it will be before it is likely to emerge, then be actioned. Every year we are some £50m down on stadium revenue from the Arsenal and Man U.

 

The longer this goes on, the greater the liklihood that a new stadium would have cost less in terms of original cost and lost revenue.If FSG had approved the consented scheme on arrival, it would have been ready for next season.The redevelopment has been estimated at around £150m. An expanded 60k ground will del

iver around an extra £30m a season, it will take at least five years to get consent and a redeveloped ground built, during which time we will have lost £150m in revenue, the last cost for the new stadium was £3oom. So already a half new/half old ground will "cost" us as much as a new one would have.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10383740/Liverpools-Anfield-redevelopment-plans-hit-an-impasse-over-six-neighbouring-properties.html

[TheHowieLama]

Why is the Mayor saying the exact opposite of Xerxes?

[MOGLET]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10383740/Liverpools-Anfield-redevelopment-plans-hit-an-impasse-over-six-neighbouring-properties.html

 

So 4 are derelict and the other 2 are vacant? I assume they are holding out for the big payoff?

 

Let them wait and then they will get far less from the CPO anyway.

 

What are the odds they are either bitter blueshite or Lithuanian landlords :)

[Trumo]

Why is the Mayor saying the exact opposite of Xerxes?

 

Maybe xerxes owns one of the houses?