Jordan Henderson - what are you?

[Tommy Lawrence]

From what I have heard from a few people Kenny knew his fate a while ago.

 

Kenny could of got us into the Champions league for next season and he would still of been sacked.

 

The sponsors had the major bearing on him being sacked and DC.

 

They both supposed to of been sacked at the end of this season,but DC came out and said about wanting to go and look after his sick daughter.

 

That was why he was sacked when he was.

 

The sponsors big moan was the Suarez episode and the way the club (Kenny) handled the whole situation,but from what it seems the owners were already pissed off themselves over it.

 

It just all became easier for the owners to get rid of them with the position we finished in.

 

How much of it is true we may never know,all though it does tie in with DC and the timing of his sacking and his statement about his sick daughter.

 

And Ayre got promoted for shoving Kenny under the bus and running to hide under his desk!

[DooooodekNo5]

good piece in the guardian about another young gifted midfielder we didn't sign.

 

one thing Henderson does have is a professional attitude.

 

Nothing big time about Michael Johnson's sorry descent | Football | The Observer

 

 

Lee Sharpe tells a story, going back to his days at Manchester United, of sitting in the canteen one day and hearing a dull, repetitive thud outside. Eventually he went out to investigate and was bemused to find Gary Neville, on his own, throwing a ball against the gym wall. "As hard as he could, over and over again," Sharpe recalls. "Practising long throws, Gary Neville's idea of fun."

 

Not quite. This was not Neville's idea of fun, more the realisation of what he had to do to make the best of himself. Another time, Sharpe remembers Neville abandoning a night out after his team-mates suggested they went to a nightclub. "He said he didn't like nightclubs. 'Sorry,' I said. 'Run that past me again, Gary. You don't like nightclubs? In nightclubs there's beer, decent music, women, what exactly is there not to like?' But he was insistent: 'No, I don't like nightclubs, they're not my scene.' And off he toddled."

 

It is easy to mock, or patronise, but only if you want to overlook the fact it was this form of dedication that helped Neville make almost 600 appearances for the club, as well as winning 85 England caps. In football, as Neville always appreciated, it needs more than just talent to sustain a career at the top. Sharpe had a different outlook and, without wishing to be cruel, his Wikipedia page now describes him as "best known for appearing in Celebrity Love Island". Or consider what has happened to Michael Johnson and, specifically, where he was supposed to be at this point in his life and what, in reality, has come of him now we are rubbernecking at what's left of his career.

 

Johnson is just one of countless young players to lose their way in the system, but his is an extreme case and anyone who saw him burst on to the scene at Manchester City will understand why it is so deflating now to find his career in such a steady form of deterioration.

 

Yes, Johnson was 18 at the time but he played with an elegance, control and appreciation of space that left City supporters of a certain generation making comparisons with Colin Bell. "FEC", they used to call Johnson: Future England Captain.

 

Liverpool, the Champions League winners at the time, wanted to sign him for £10m, back in the days when that was an implausible amount of money for a teenager. One particular memory stands out: Sven-Goran Eriksson, a manager who has worked with a Who's Who of gifted footballers, holding court at the bar of the Manchester Radisson, offering a £50 bet that Johnson would play in at least one World Cup. The teenager was, according to Eriksson, the outstanding player of his age in English football.

 

Now 24, the midfielder has endured a cruel run of injuries since then, but there are other reasons why he has not started a league game for City for almost four years. At City they talk about someone who became "big-time" and started spending too much time in nightclubs and casinos. At times they could not understand why he was not fit to play when the medical staff could not find an obvious problem. They tell the story of being so embarrassed by his pen-pic one season – bloated, unshaven, rough – they asked the photographer to come back to take it again. The original, to quote one member of City's staff, looked "more like an Oasis roadie" than a professional sportsman.

 

Over time, City's coaching staff concluded Johnson simply did not have the mentality to be a footballer at the highest level. He was moved to Leicester City last year, on a season-long loan that cost the Championship club £1m, but was signed off, then sent back, by January. After that, almost nothing had been heard of him until on Thursday, at 3.50am, his Mercedes hit another car, then crashed into a wall. "Manchester City star in drink-drive arrest," the Manchester Evening News reported. Except that Johnson has not been a "Manchester City star," in the truest sense, for a long time. He was nowhere to be seen when Roberto Mancini's team won the league, or during the open-top bus parade. His last appearance? A second-half substitute, in a Carling Cup tie against Scunthorpe, in October 2009.

 

Maybe it all happened too quickly. Johnson had an awful lot of exposure at an early age and, unless you are in that position, it is difficult to comprehend all the different pressures and temptations. All we can really say for certain is that it is a terrible waste. In different circumstances, this should have been the point of his career when he was established as an England player, looking forward to playing in the European Championship. England, as we have seen, are hardly spoilt for choice when it comes to central midfielders.

 

Hypothetical now, though. Johnson signed a five-year contract in 2009, which means City are lumbered with him for the time being. They would get rid of him in a shot if they could and, beyond that, who can really say where he would be washed up?

 

Whatever happens, it is a sorry tale about what can happen when a young footballer has the right ability but the wrong attitude – and, in the process, we are reminded again that there is nothing quite so depressing as talent going to waste.

 

Nice read but its really clutching at straws trying to spin it into something positive regarding Henderson.

[Zippy]

For whatever reason, Kenny did not get the best out of Henderson.

 

In theory Henderson is second only to Carroll in vulnerabiliy to Rodger's requirement for a passing, possession game.

 

I think he will improve under Rodgers - whether he will improve enough remains to be seen.

 

Why would a brilliant one touch passer with a very high pass completion rate and a great engine be second to Carroll in vulnerability? Henderson's skillset is made for Rodgers' approach I would think.

[RobbieOR]

A typically thoughtful contribution - special brew? Just say no;)

 

What?

[billypilgrimnz]

I don't think he's going anywhere, so I really hope he's going to turn it all around next season under a different manager with a different style.

 

But "brilliant one-touch passer"? His biggest problem last season (except for hiding, nit tackling much and being a crap shooter - though he was not alone in that last one) was that he had terrible awareness when he got the ball. So often he'd get it with space to run into going forward, but would immediately one-touch it backwards, allowing the opposition to fill the space, and slow us down. He did it so much, it was like a programming error in a video game.

 

He's got decent technical skills, but they are hardly outstanding - we are not looking at a creative genius here hamstrung by poor team tactics. Just an average player played too much and not really getting him to improve his game.

[Brownie]

I agree with Zippy in the sense that Henderson would seem to suit the style that we'll be looking to adopt. I don't necessarily agree that he's particularly brilliant at anything but he does like to move the ball quickly and he does have a good engine.

 

What Henderson needs next season, is to develop his confidence and mentality so that he takes more responsibility on the pitch. It's all well and good moving the ball quickly but you also have to be able to deliver in the final third and contribute positively in terms of creativity and goals. That's the big question mark over Henderson, for me.

[Brownie]

Just to comment further on that point about mentality/confidence with regards to Henderson. For all we know, Kenny and the coaching staff may have been having those conversations with Henderson throughout last season and he may just be either too young in his development to make progress on that score, or just not good enough. Or, those conversations may not have been taking place, in which case he will have lacked direction and guidance, in my opinion. I think most people could see the big issue that he had last season. Some may dress up his performances by stating that he's really good at moving the ball quickly but in reality I think he was too scared to try anything and preferred to give the ball to other players instead.

 

Rodgers speaks about the 'weight of the shirt' and Henderson is the perfect example.

 

One thing i'm hoping that Rodgers will address, is this issue of mentality/confidence/weight of the shirt, whatever you want to call it, as a group. It's all well and good speaking to players individually but if their team-mates aren't in the loop then they can't help can they? I believe that the new manager and the squad need to have a very frank and open dialogue about the weight of expectation and how they can overcome it as a group.

 

The way to overcome a weakness is to firstly accept that it exists and then garner the support of colleagues in your team to attack it head on. Henderson isn't the only player in focus for this, there are plenty of others (Downing is a good example).

 

The players need to really buy into what Rodgers will preach to them in terms of hunting for the ball in packs and then moving it quickly to probe for openings. If they all work together as a group then they have more chance of success.

[cracker]

He didn't come to the club in an unstable period.

He played at RM plenty of times at Sunderland.

 

And here's another revealing fact; Quinn and Bruce were laughing their tits off when we offered them 16m plus another 4m in add-ons. As were all of their fans.

 

His signing was the point when I first started losing faith in Kenny and how we would perform in the coming season. Sadly, I was right and he cost Kenny his job. If he plays as often for us this season, we will finish in a similar position

 

Agreed - altho I still believed in giving Kenny longer and perhaps even still do as i was in the give him another season camp but one of my main moans was his treatment of JH and the most concerning was the way it seemed like if he had stayed JH was likely to play just as often.

 

JH simply is not fit to be a LFC player and if he is sold this summer I'll be delighted - or at least not played as much next season cos we have got better options in.

 

All this JH skill set and stuff like saying the reason why he was so bad was due to playing him in the wrong position. Not even sure what his position is - RM? or CM? - cos whichever it was he played in both loads of times and was crap wherever he played.

 

Please don't make excuses for him -I know it is not our way (or should not be) to have a go at a player so I do not like this ready salted stuff - and it is nothing personal, he seems a nice lad, he is just not good enough to play for LFC. Thats all.

 

The sponsors big moan was the Suarez episode and the way the club (Kenny) handled the whole situation,but from what it seems the owners were already pissed off themselves over it.

 

 

You may well be right and if so it disgusts me.

 

I have spent countless hours reading and posting on the whole Evra incident - not on TLW admittedly - mainly elsewhere - and I still have no peace or closure on it even tho maybe as more facts came into the open my view evolved a bit - but the whole thing stinks of injustice.

 

You'd like to think those on the LFC side feel that too but from the deafening silence we have heard from them since day 1 it seems as if they are more on the Ferguson, Evra, Sky Sports, Oliver Holt, Barclay, Powar ... side. Why don't they research it a bit more and thus come to understand it - maybe listen to John Barnes and the like who are one of the few voices talking anything like sense about it. What i can maybe agree is that the club could have handled it better but that does not mean Kenny or Luis that means others above them like Ayre and his ilk whose choice of defence tactics for instance was very flawed imo

 

It's now at the point where we are not allowed to talk about it!! - :wallbutt:. Glen got stick for his common sense interview which included some Suarez support after handshakegate and Luis himself made a minor fairly neutralish comment on it a week or two ago and it was rumoured he'd be in trouble. Heck when Ferguson said we should sell Luis nobody from our club stood up in public to tell him to mind his own business and how out of order he was. What a farce - not only did MUFC (in the form of those 2 paragons of virtue Evra and Ferguson mainly) get our best player banned for 8 games and reviled throughout the country and totally disrupt our season, they also helped LFC sponsors to decide to rid LFC of the services of a club legend.

 

Sickening does not even come close.

[Joe Le Taxi]

Usually I laugh when people get angry at shit on here but I really want to stab Xerxes in the face.

[Unrighteous]

For whatever reason, Kenny did not get the best out of Henderson.

 

In theory Henderson is second only to Carroll in vulnerabiliy to Rodger's requirement for a passing, possession game.

 

I think he will improve under Rodgers - whether he will improve enough remains to be seen.

 

wtf? Carra, Kuyt, Spearing etc are all far more vulnerable to Rodger's style, Henderson is likely to benefit more than anyone

 

You know absolutely fuck all about football. This is proof that you are Christian Purslow.

 

Bellend.

 

You guys took the words outta my mouth in response to Xerxes moron-a-thon.

[KopOut]

We agree that Carra's favoured agricultural style of ball distribution is unlikley to find favour with Rodgers.

 

I suspect that it is Kuyt's age and wage demands which will be the stumbling block for Rodgers, not Dirk's footballing skills. We are not so replete with talent that we can lightly dispense with the services of a World Cup runner-up.

 

Spearing, for me, isn't going to make it - he is a Bolton wanderers grade player.

 

We also agree that Rodgers discipline is likley to improve Henderson, but Kenny bought him as a harum scarum all action midfielder. As I said, whether any improvement will be enough we will see.

 

Spearing has made remarkable progress this season, and as a Liverpool squad player, I think he will be more than good enough given the opportunity.

[Josef Svejk]

Spearing deteriorated by the end of the season.

 

Henderson is a joke. It's absolutely incredible that he made the England squad. One decent game all season, playing out of position, for the eighth best team in the country: England's saviour...

[Aldonose]

It appears that people within the game rate him quite highly. I think regardless of whether he played on the right for Sunderland or not, I don't think it did him any favours here last season. He looks far more comfortable/accomplished in the middle, and I'll reserve judgement on him until I see him in that position on a regular basis.

[KopOut]

Spearing deteriorated by the end of the season.

 

What specifically brought you to that conclusion?

[Josef Svejk]

The F.A. Cup final, among other late-season performances. He was shockingly bad.

[Carvalho Diablo]

 

Rodgers speaks about the 'weight of the shirt' and Henderson is the perfect example.

 

 

 

"Any man who don't wanna get killed better clear on out the back."

[Phoenix]

The F.A. Cup final, among other late-season performances. He was shockingly bad.

 

Definitely. He seemed like a little boy lost against men.

 

Hate to say it but he needs to move on.

[silverlining]

Usually I laugh when people get angry at shit on here but I really want to stab Xerxes in the face.

 

Hahahahahahahahaha!

[KopOut]

The F.A. Cup final, among other late-season performances. He was shockingly bad.

 

Yep, a big game, and on the day he didn't step up defensively - even though, to be fair, he brought other qualities like a good passing game. Rather like Flanagan though, he's still very inexperienced, and I have no problem with allowing him the time to develop in the new system.

 

As far as 'lost' goes, I could easily argue that as defenders, both Enrique (especially in the cup final) and Johnson both looked lost most of the season. Enrique's pathetic attempts at tackling, (see: Chelsea's first goal at Wembley) puts him more in the firing line than Spearing's poor defensive display.

 

Enrique has shown he just isn't up to the standard required for left back. Time to move on. Johnson maybe shouldn't be far behind, unless Bren-Gun can adapt him to RM.

[zico]

Prediction:

 

Henderson will play less but have a much better second season..

 

He seems to have most of what it takes to play a high pressing passing game..

 

Hopefully we never have to see him used out wide again.

[Carvalho Diablo]

... Johnson maybe shouldn't be far behind, unless Bren-Gun can adapt him to RM.

 

You really didn't just say that, did you ?

 

Negged.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I think henderson will be okay under Brenflakes. Play the short pass keep it simple he has a good engine on him so will press without the ball and keep up the pressure all game, at some point though he's going to have to show some bollocks and imagination.

[smilezzz]

Yep, a big game, and on the day he didn't step up defensively - even though, to be fair, he brought other qualities like a good passing game. Rather like Flanagan though, he's still very inexperienced, and I have no problem with allowing him the time to develop in the new system.

 

As far as 'lost' goes, I could easily argue that as defenders, both Enrique (especially in the cup final) and Johnson both looked lost most of the season. Enrique's pathetic attempts at tackling, (see: Chelsea's first goal at Wembley) puts him more in the firing line than Spearing's poor defensive display.

 

Enrique has shown he just isn't up to the standard required for left back. Time to move on. Johnson maybe shouldn't be far behind, unless Bren-Gun can adapt him to RM.

 

By this reasoning, Spearing shouldnt be allowed in a Liverpool shirt again.

 

And he failed defensively, which was his primary function that day.

[DooooodekNo5]

What specifically brought you to that conclusion?

 

His eyes ?

 

Spearing has proved beyond doubt that he is not upto playing for LFC , if we want to finish 12th then yeah theres room for him , if we want to get back up there then he needs to be binned off to Blackburn or the like.

[Red Banjo]

People need to stop using Spearing's age as a reason to persist with him. I assume these people are aware he turns 24 in November? The same age Suarez was when we signed him. The age Messi is now. Spearing will never, ever, ever be good enough for us. Ever. It brings me no joy whatsoever to say it - but it is the truth, and if we want to forget the nightmare that was last season - we have to start being ruthless, and stop being sentimental - being a scouser has forgiven Spearing for some of his woeful displays, but if he plays as much next season - we will hold a similar league position when the season ends. Its as pure and simple as that unfortunately.