Haye v Klitschko - Poll and Fight Thread

[Spy Bee]

You might be right. It was depressing how easily Haye was beaten last night though, and for all his detractors Haye is no mug. He cleaned up at cruiserweight and unified the belts, so you'd have to suggest that the weight and size difference was a major factor in his defeat.

 

I don't know about this talk of a rematch either. What are the grounds for it? I don't see what else haye would do apart from being a lot more aggressive.

[Byrnie]

Spot on there, Lee.

[Lee909]

Haye is not a bad boxer by any means.

If you talk the talk though you have to back it up.

After pulling out the first fight and shouting his mouth off he had to impress and he didnt.

I dont see the point of a rematch but if there is he has to go for broke and go for him hard and early to try and stop him taking the centre of the ring and then backing him up.

Once Wladamir gets the jab going he is dificult to stop.

[Unrighteous]

You might be right. It was depressing how easily Haye was beaten last night though, and for all his detractors Haye is no mug. He cleaned up at cruiserweight and unified the belts, so you'd have to suggest that the weight and size difference was a major factor in his defeat.

 

I don't know about this talk of a rematch either. What are the grounds for it? I don't see what else haye would do apart from being a lot more aggressive.

 

That's not the Heavyweight division's or Klitschko's fault. Haye knew he'd be facing, potentially, much bigger guys in the Heavyweight division. He came up, he talked shit, and he couldn't back it up.

 

He's a good boxer, but against a much bigger, good boxer, he was always going to get found out.

[Lee909]

According to compustrike Haye threw 290 punches and landed 72 to the 509 134 that klitschko threw,that need to be upped by alot if there is a rematch.

If Haye does want to fight on then he needs to add some weight.

He came in around 208-215 depending if you believe booth or the offiicials weigh in,with his size he could easily add 7-10lb of lean muscle to his frame and still have the stamina and speed he needs.It doesnt sound much but a 218/225lb Haye is potentialy a different prospect with the added power in his shots and strength for the clinch.

I have to go back the Holyfield example again off his preperation and how amazing physicaly he is.Haye is fighting at the weight he would have walked into the ring as a cruiserweight.

when he lost his first fight with Bowe he was exhausted at the end of the fight,he weighed inat 205lb and in the rematch after that he went and put some more lean muscle on and came in at 218 for the rematch.

 

 

 

I dont want to knock Haye but the only fighter of note he fought at heavyweight was Valuez who is shit and Ruiz who was 38.The Ruiz fight was so over hyped as a win,Ruiz had allready been beaten by Roy Jones whie at his peak 7 years before.

[RoboRiise]

If Haye fought him again he'd beat him. I have no doubt about that. It's just that he couldn't put it together when needed, toe or not. He'll never get a re-match and Wlad would be mad to give him one. He won fair and square.

 

Says alot about the state of heavyweight boxing but that's the closest anyone has come to Wlad in years. Haye is getting all the abuse now because of his mouth and rightly to but he had Wlad worried last night, sadly he just didn't throw enough.

The tactics were wrong last night, surely they had to change in after the 7th as he was getting left behind on points, it seemed he was using the Groves tactics and hoping to land a few punches and get out again but i think Wlad was too good on his feet for that.

 

 

Agree with all that. What I saw last night was a boxer who showed that he had enough to beat Wlad in terms of power but for whatever reason didn't employ the tactics that would have made it happen.

 

Haye has no shortage of industry in the ring and proved that he can take big shots even at this weight and come back fighting. He was never going to be able to dance round Wlad like he did against Valuev, who has all the speed and mobility of an oak tree, but he definitely hurt Wlad when he got a shot through. No wonder really since he nearly put Vauev on his arse and continuing the metaphor from above, that was like punching an oak tree as well. Haye definitely brought his power up with him from cruiserweight.

 

If he'd spent the first six rounds last night trying to work around or under Wlad's jab and just put some fucking shots in on him anywhere, Wlad would have been a more tired fighter in the closing rounds, would have been slower throwing the jab and Haye would have had a far better chance of landing the killer punch he spent the entire fight looking for.

 

As things were, he didn't seem prepared for how quick Wlad's jab was, or for him constantly walking him down. Wlad always comes forward from behind his jab, almost every fight I've seen of his features him inexorably marching into his opponent behind that shot and I expected Haye to use his mobility to try and work round it to create the angles but he never did it, either because Wlad was too good for him, or because Haye wasn't good enough. Instead he preferred to back off before attempting the sort of windmilling overhead flails that you rarely see outside a beat-em-up. When he did attack, he telegraphed it so obviously that Wlad had plenty of time to move out of danger - there was no guile to that performance from Haye whatsoever.

 

Still, even though he hardly hit Wlad, he managed to shake the big man - if Haye had been able to land solid punches for even a couple of rounds and open up the chance to hit him with another couple of bombs like the one he found in the last round, I honestly believe that Wlad would have been in trouble but Haye simply never took him out of his comfort zone, in fact he didn't even seem as if he was trying to do that for at least ten of the twelve rounds.

 

I'm sure that when he reflects on the fight, Haye will recognise the magnitude of the opportunity that he let slip through his grasp last night. He'd have been set up for life if he'd have won; a two weight unified world champion, holding four heavyweight belts and surely the chance to fight Vitali within 12 months, with a fight against the most attractive of the various associations challengers whilst he was waiting. He could have packed it in by this time next year after a fight with Vitali and regardless of whether he won he'd have financial security for life and a solid legacy.

 

As it is, if he doesn't retire he's got a problem now - he's in the same territory that Hatton was after the Manny fight in that none of the fights he could get are going to enhance his reputation or be big box-office draws, but without a belt he's got nothing to get the likes of Wlad and Vitali in the ring with him again. In fact in view of what I said above, Wlad would have to be mad to fight him again because with better tactics from Haye (hell, with some tactics) that fight would be less comfortable and Wlad has everything to lose, nothing to gain.

 

I don't know if Haye could be named as the no.1 contender for any of those belts after losing last night but even that would be unlikely to make a difference because I'm sure Wlad would rather shed a belt than risk fighting a better-prepared Haye unless it was for a ridiculously large purse. Even then I just can't see it happening, it's not the way fights are made now.

 

That's one thing that pisses me off with boxing now, the fights you want to see are not the ones that the boxers want to risk taking - no better example than Manny v Mayweather. I expect a boxer to be brave enough to believe in his ability and take a fight against a dangerous opponent, isn't that what the sport is supposed to be about, fighting the best man out there?

 

The story of the night was almost unbelievable naivety from Haye and his camp against a fighter who's been at the top of the weight division for approaching a decade and there's no real excuse for that. Shame that it will probably end up being Haye's legacy in the sport because it detracts from his achievements at cruiserweight, which were certainly notable but he's only got himself to blame.

 

As for Wlad's next move, I'm sure Dereck Chisora will be waiting patiently by the phone...

 

Spy Bee - interesting point about the weight divisions - essentially ship the freaks of nature and the big fat dudes off to a separate division and reinvigorate the heavyweight division by ensuring fights are between broadly matched opponents who will also be light enough to be boxers rather than just sluggers? I see where you're coming from and I think I like it but that's just an off-the-cuff impression without giving the wider implications any consideration.

[Spy Bee]

Nice post Robo. It sounds like a rematch might be on. Apparently Wlad has offered it and suggesting that he wants to knock him out. I suspect he thinks that last night was so easy that a rematch would be no different. I think I agree as well, I don't see how Haye is going to get close enough. The one thing he can do is throw caution to the wind, but then that could go either way.

[lifetime fan]

Haye/Booth got the tactics badly wrong.

 

Having said that I'm not so sure he would have won if he'd got the tactics right.

[dennis tooth]

Watching someting as a complete neutral was a good experience, not often that happens.

 

But to those saying Haye was an embarrassment, he lasted all 12 rounds against Klitschko, so he cant have been that bad.

 

Exactly. I've read enough of the 'pathetic' talk.

Given that he is a naturally a cruiserweight he has done well to get as far as he has and people should give him some credit, most of those people have not followed his career, been there when he was nothing.

In the end only Haye and a handful of trainers will know if he can overcome Wlad, I think he can but it comes down to his motivation and commitment. Given he has this retirement plan its not clear where he will go from here, I'd imagine he would have an easier time getting a fight with Vitali.At one time I'd have backed Haye in that but since he has hs to go the long route he seems to have been focused a lot on his promo work etc. I'm sure Haye is deserving of a shot but he could retire soon and it comes down to his pride versus his honour as well as whether he realised he was out of his depth or wants to go out as a champion. The public pressure I think will force him to delay retirement now, if he's won I think he would have stuck to it but I cant see him shirking the challenge. Unless of course, as I say he felt he was out of his depth and so if he decides to retire I think that means he feels he cant beat them. Or that hes a stubborn bastard who will not be bowed in putting his body on the line for the sake of the British baying public.

He has done a lot for British boxing and was trying to win the fight, he was flummoxed by the defensive work Wlad has honed over the years and if hed opened up beleive Wlad would have seriously damaged him. However he was on his feet at the end, didnt look in bad shape and never really looked in anymnore trouble than dropping his points. This is his first real challenge at heavyweight and he has had so few fights that when you look at Hatton everyone had sympathy, I suppose its because they choose to sell their fights differently and I try to stick to what goes on in the ring in my judgement.

The broken toe thing certainly would have made a difference given a punch comes from your toes and feet but how much difference is debateable, its hard to believe even at 100%, without the injury Haye would have won, even if it may has made it a more equal fight. However the key is if they get some better tactics can they do it, Haye has had the last 9 years to watch Wlad and did not come up with anything last night which suggests he miscalculated Wlad for all those years or himself.

Whatever Haye does next will tell me a lot but I think if I was Vitali I'd want to take a fight with him. If Haye fights some bum then retires or retires or pushes for a rematch and/or Vitali and delays his retirement plan then people should decide if he is pathetic or not but this is his first real setback. Disappointing is the more accurate word.

[Cardie]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer cunt.

[The Golden Eel]

Tyson Fury is the future. He could take Klitschko out.

[Trucker Paddy]

You might be right. It was depressing how easily Haye was beaten last night though, and for all his detractors Haye is no mug. He cleaned up at cruiserweight and unified the belts, so you'd have to suggest that the weight and size difference was a major factor in his defeat.

 

I don't know about this talk of a rematch either. What are the grounds for it? I don't see what else haye would do apart from being a lot more aggressive.

 

So he shoulda stayed at Cruiserweight, 15 stone is what he came in at and that is not heavyweight, don't blame the game blame the player

[Red Phoenix]

So he shoulda stayed at Cruiserweight, 15 stone is what he came in at and that is not heavyweight, don't blame the game blame the player

 

He obviously didn't eat enough fry-ups. (with beans. beans.)

[Cardie]

Tyson Fury is the future. He could take Klitschko out.

 

Assuming he doesn't take himself out first!

 

wdFP-R_LYSM

[loadsoftrophies]

I think Adamek has gone down the right route preparing for Vitali, all his fights have been against tall heavyweights with a big reach. When you look at who Haye fought in the run up he just didn't prepare for the size and range for Wlad, he came up very short in trying to land on him.

[RoboRiise]

Tyson Fury is the future. He could take Klitschko out.

 

 

... if only he wasn't a fat, lumbering sack of shit.

[moof]

It's also worth noting that Haye didn't spar or train properly for at least 3 weeks up to the fight. He was defo too light. I still think he'd do him in the rematch. Wlad can be got at, Haye just needed to get inside. I suspect if Wlad goes for someone like Chisora aswell he'd be put on his arse. He really wasn't that impressive, just hiding behind his jab.

 

It may sound naive but i really think the toe had a bearing on the fight. It effects balance and power. If Haye was 100% he may have been able to get inside more often and land some bombs, whereas last night everytime he got inside he was being pushed over because he was totally off balance.

 

I'm really gutted he didn't win, which is strange because I prefer Wlad. As it is he got totally embarrassed and i'm not sure he'll be able to live it down. Wlad would be totally justified if he didn't give him another shot.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

It's also worth noting that Haye didn't spar or train properly for at least 3 weeks up to the fight. He was defo too light. I still think he'd do him in the rematch. Wlad can be got at, Haye just needed to get inside. I suspect if Wlad goes for someone like Chisora aswell he'd be put on his arse. He really wasn't that impressive, just hiding behind his jab.

 

It may sound naive but i really think the toe had a bearing on the fight. It effects balance and power. If Haye was 100% he may have been able to get inside more often and land some bombs, whereas last night everytime he got inside he was being pushed over because he was totally off balance.

 

I'm really gutted he didn't win, which is strange because I prefer Wlad. As it is he got totally embarrassed and i'm not sure he'll be able to live it down. Wlad would be totally justified if he didn't give him another shot.

 

He really was off balance all the time. Whether that was because of the toe or because he was trying to jump into Wlad, that's to be debated. Rocked him in the last round though. Took everything Klitschko had, too.

[usernameunknown]

I suspect if Wlad goes for someone like Chisora aswell he'd be put on his arse.

 

This is a joke right?

[moof]

This is a joke right?

 

yeah....kind of. Someone who get's in his face, get's inside and lands some bombs has the potential to really worry Wlad. Not saying Chisora would be the guy but somebody like him, fearless, confident, won't just back off waiting for the jab, and will try to rough him up. What Haye should have done basically.

[Xherdan]

Why is Tyson Fury white?

[Cardie]

. Took everything Klitschko had, too.

 

Really?

 

Thought it was very comfortable and he could cruise it with a few gears to spare

[Sugar Ape]

Humbled David Haye offers lame excuses after losing to Wladimir Klitschko in Hamburg - mirror.co.uk

 

Oliver Holt article in todays Mirror.

 

DAVID HAYE shuffled into the lounge at his hotel yesterday morning. The waiters were clearing away the last of the breakfast dishes.

 

Haye had not slept. He had watched a rerun of his defeat and then stayed up, fretting over it.

 

He smiled awkwardly but he looked wretched. He knew what he was. A beaten, broken fighter.

 

His handshake was still firm but there was an ugly welt under his right eye.

 

There was a subtle change in his speech. It was because his lips were swollen from eating Wladimir Klitschko’s jab.

 

The most notorious little toe in boxing, the one he blamed for his defeat, was swathed in a white bandage.

 

Strapping ran across the top of his foot.

 

He wore a plain, black shirt. Not a severed head to be seen.

 

His bravado was all gone, beaten out of him by the fists of a tormentor who had outclassed him.

 

The reckless, feral trash-talker who had said he would decapitate Klitschko in the ring had disappeared.

 

Haye was meek now. Not penitent but diminished. Like all beaten fighters, he was trying to come to terms with a brutal blow to his machismo.

 

“I’m proud of what I did considering the *circumstances,” he said. “I did the best I could do but losers always say that.” A loser. That was what he was now. No longer the champ. No longer the man. No longer a fighter with a belt around his waist. No longer the guy who holds all the aces.

 

All his old certainties had evaporated. He was no longer even sure whether he would stick to his vow of retiring before his 31st birthday on October 13.

 

He had cherished that *ambition so dearly. He had been unwavering in saying he wanted to get out of the sport with all his faculties intact. Now he wasn’t so sure. He didn’t want to go out like this.

 

“I would hate to go out on a loss, particularly when I was not 100 per cent,” he said. “I’m a born fighter. This is what I do. I’m used to training and fighting.”

 

When fighters are like this, it is difficult to look at them without feeling some level of guilt for being part of the machine that served them up as entertainment.

 

It is obvious what they have been through. Too obvious for comfort. Certainly too obvious to mock them or question their courage.

 

But Haye knew what was coming. He knew that he faced ridicule and *disparagement now, the cheap shots of those busy boasting they could have done better against Klitschko than he had. He accepted it quietly. He acknowledged he had brought some of it upon himself.

 

He had talked the talk but he hadn’t walked the walk.

 

All the grandiose, exotic threats, all the obscenities he had mouthed at the stoically dignified Klitschko had ended in the crushing anti-climax of a unanimous points victory for his opponent.

 

Thousands of British fans had paid a lot of money to make the journey to the Imtech Arena to lend their support to Haye and they had left feeling cheated by his failure to deliver.

 

“We expected David to be more aggressive,” Klitschko’s trainer Manny Steward said later, in a damning understatement.

 

Many British fans said it was the manner of the defeat that grated so much, the fact Haye had never looked like winning.

 

“Whatever people say about me, that’s fine,” Haye said. “If it makes them feel better, bring it on.

 

“It’s going to be easy to take the mick out of me but I talk it up so when I don’t deliver, I expect to get abuse. I got some stick from a few fans after the fight but I ignored it. They were in the rain all night, they wanted a high and they didn’t get it.

 

“I apologize to them. I did my best but my best was not good enough.”

 

He rarely mentioned the toe he said he had broken three weeks ago in training and that he had offered up as an excuse in the moments after his defeat had been made official.

 

Just as well really because others mentioned it for him. The promoter Frank Warren labelled him “a cry-baby”.

 

And in America, where Haye had been touted as boxing’s next great box- office draw, they were laughing so hard they could hardly type.

 

“Wlad plans to wear a T-shirt with a picture of him holding Haye’s severed toe,” the ESPN columnist Dan Rafael wrote on Twitter. “Haye was toe-tally outclassed.” There was plenty more where that came from.

 

Haye may wince when he thinks back to the early hours of yesterday morning when his toe was the centre of *attention at the post-fight press conference, too.

 

At one point, he took off the flip-flop on his right foot and climbed up on the table so everyone could see the offending pinky. *Photographers and television crews fell over themselves to get the shot.

 

Klitschko was sitting on the next chair, regarding the circus with utter disdain. Haye pointed at the toe as if it was a trophy.

 

“I think maybe you have been stung by a bumble bee,” the champion said.

 

Klitschko was not about to miss his moment for revenge after all the indignities Haye had inflicted upon him in the build-up to the fight. He talked to him as if he was a child.

 

“There is a reason why there are weight divisions in boxing,” he said. “It is good you had ambition but the heavyweight champion is big, strong and tall and it is not easy to move up from other weight classes.

 

“You’ve got balls. You moved up to heavyweight and *challenged me. You would have success with a certain type of heavyweight, but not against the really top guys.”

 

Klitschko’s legacy is now assured. He and his brother, Vitali, hold all the world heavyweight titles. He deserves to be classed as a fighter who would have been a force in better generations than this one.

 

Haye’s future is uncertain. It is always that way with beaten fighters. He is clearly tempted to abandon all his best-laid plans and fight on.

 

His friend and trainer, Adam Booth, looked on yesterday as Haye wrestled with his emotions.

 

“I don’t want him to fight again,” he said. And then he looked down and held his head in his hands.

[Kevin D]

Says alot about the state of heavyweight boxing but that's the closest anyone has come to Wlad in years. Haye is getting all the abuse now because of his mouth and rightly to but he had Wlad worried last night, sadly he just didn't throw enough.

The tactics were wrong last night, surely they had to change in after the 7th as he was getting left behind on points, it seemed he was using the Groves tactics and hoping to land a few punches and get out again but i think Wlad was too good on his feet for that.

 

I always felt Booth was overrated, more so now. The tactics Groves used were primarily successful because Degale is a novice and had no idea how to cut off the ring, when he finally pieced it together somewhat he came into the fight.

 

Wladimir Klitschko, on the other hand, is, according to the ring, the number 5 p4p fighter in the world. He isn't some kid that Sky and Frank Warren have inflated. He's very very good at closing the distance, has knockout power and, is fairly elusive. You're not going to get a decision against a fighter like that throwing 20 punches a round.

 

Up against a technichally sound, experienced champion with one of the greatest trainers ever(who reinvented the way tall boxers fight offensively and must've been rubbing his hands when he saw what was happening) and that's what Booth is bringing to the table as his "masterplan"?

 

For £2m I'd be expecting a lot better and would be looking for a new trainer, if I was Haye.

[loadsoftrophies]

Yeah good post Kevin.

I heard an interview with Booth yesterday saying he was telling Haye to change it up in around the 7th round but Haye didn't follow instructions, i found that a bit odd, is he just saving face there?? He did give a good review of the fight, i suppose the jury is still out on him after Saturday.