Strike Action

[TommyW]

reading this thread and watching the news it seems many people in this argument are confusing 'private sector' with the upper echelons of the financial sector

 

not everyone who works in the private sector is rolling in millions, far, far, far from it

 

my pay has been frozen the last 3 years and during that time we've been constantly in fear of further redundancies without the ability to strike or withhold services to protect our jobs... in short, we (the ordinary working man) are all in this together

[dennis tooth]

reading this thread and watching the news it seems many people in this argument are confusing 'private sector' with the upper echelons of the financial sector

 

not everyone who works in the private sector is rolling in millions, far, far, far from it

 

my pay has been frozen the last 3 years and during that time we've been constantly in fear of further redundancies without the ability to strike or withhold services to protect our jobs... in short, we (the ordinary working man) are all in this together

 

Same thing though, obviously the private sector find it easier routing their workers rights directly that taking over the public sector and routing theirs to which there is a bit more resistance, workers there have won better rights by self organising which they have faced harder obstacles to do in the private sector. This seems to power SD's mind into telling us the public sector should have their rights routed to pre agreed working contracts at the behest of bankers and financial sectors and their propaganda machines.

[Stu Monty]

reading this thread and watching the news it seems many people in this argument are confusing 'private sector' with the upper echelons of the financial sector

 

not everyone who works in the private sector is rolling in millions, far, far, far from it

 

my pay has been frozen the last 3 years and during that time we've been constantly in fear of further redundancies without the ability to strike or withhold services to protect our jobs... in short, we (the ordinary working man) are all in this together

 

I don't think anyone has, have they Tommy?

 

What I'm saying is that the majority of people in the private sector who are having their pensions, rights and quality of life attacked have it all wrong if they think the public sector workers are their enemy. It's a matter of not letting the cunts with everything turn the masses on each other. They are the problem and the majority of people need to realise that.

 

They're throwing crumbs to the masses and having us scratch each other's eyes out for them, whilst they dine on caviar.

[Rafa's Peggy's]

Not necessarily, but people need to admit there's a funding problem. At the moment those pensionless private sector workers are paying increasing amounts into my pension pot every year:

 

 

Great for me, no doubt, but is it really "fair"? I don't have a definitive answer on that, but I'd rather support what is fair than what benefits me personally if those end up being two different things

 

That's a nice little graph you've shown there.

 

Of course what you failed to mention is that the National Audit Office, the Public Accounts Committee and Hutton himself have all said that the deal done on pensions in 2005 made the schemes affordable and will eliminate the £3 billion pound hole which existed previously.

 

The Government is attacking our pensions whilst failing to tackle the excesses of those at the top of big corporations, who's pay has risen by 32% in the last year and who continue to command six figure pensions. All the while propped up by tax relief and loopholes which the Government continue to support and sponsor.

 

We are not the enemy of ordinary private sector workers. The answer to poor private sector pensions is not to bring about an equality of misery by attacking public sector pension provision. The answer is for the Government to apply pressure to the companies which employ those workers to provide decent, affordable pensions so they don't retire into poverty and become reliant on state support.

 

I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with any private sector worker who is fighting to defend themselves or enhance their working conditions. Sadly, unions aren't as organised in the private sector so it's easier to pick workers off. We still remain strong and relevant in the public sector, which is why the Government is so eager to provoke a dispute in the hop that it will break us.

 

Seeing as it's your job, your pension and your redundancy scheme that we are looking to defend in this dispute, I hope that you'll join us on the picket line on the 30th.

[melons]

Sports day for infants on the 29th, strike on the 30th, sports day for juniors on the 1st july. I do believe thats a 5 day weekend for me.

[Strontium]

That's a nice little graph you've shown there.

 

Of course what you failed to mention is that the National Audit Office' date=' the Public Accounts Committee and Hutton himself have all said that the deal done on pensions in 2005 made the schemes affordable and will eliminate the £3 billion pound hole which existed previously.[/quote']

 

 

Have you got a source from this? Not saying it isn't true, but that would very definitely conflict with that BBC graph above, which is based on Office for Budget Responsibility data. It would certainly be unusual for government to contradict itself like that.

 

Seeing as it's your job' date=' your pension and your redundancy scheme that we are looking to defend in this dispute, I hope that you'll join us on the picket line on the 30th.[/quote']

 

 

I've had that week booked off for months, so regrettably I will have to decline your offer. However, I will be thinking of you as I sip mojitos on a sun lounger.

[clangers]

Public sector pensions are a gigantic unfunded ponzi scheme.

 

Those in the public sector with final salary schemes are, in effect, mugging their fellow taxpayers to achieve unfair and unrealistic benefits that others in defined benefit schemes (i.e. the private sector) can only dream of.

 

Unions who are whipping up strikes to defend this state of affairs are simply a disgrace. This economic situation that effectively enslaves half the population to pay for the earlier retirement of the other half is simply unsustainable.

 

This is a strike of self-interest nothing more, let's not try and dress it up with any nobility. The public sector has benefited hugely from massive increases in investment from a government implementing an unsustainable economic policy fuelled by a massive credit bubble, taxes from an out of control financial service sector and ever increasing levels of borrowing.

 

The bottom line is that however affordable public sector pensions are in the short-term, over the longer term they are simply not sustainable. It's not a problem unique to Britain.

[She Knows It]

Public sector pensions are a gigantic unfunded ponzi scheme.

 

Those in the public sector with final salary schemes are, in effect, mugging their fellow taxpayers to achieve unfair and unrealistic benefits that others in defined benefit schemes (i.e. the private sector) can only dream of.

 

Unions who are whipping up strikes to defend this state of affairs are simply a disgrace. This economic situation that effectively enslaves half the population to pay for the earlier retirement of the other half is simply unsustainable.

 

This is a strike of self-interest nothing more, let's not try and dress it up with any nobility. The public sector has benefited hugely from massive increases in investment from a government implementing an unsustainable economic policy fuelled by a massive credit bubble, taxes from an out of control financial service sector and ever increasing levels of borrowing.

 

The bottom line is that however affordable public sector pensions are in the short-term, over the longer term they are simply not sustainable. It's not a problem unique to Britain.

 

I put it to my mate that her final salary pension would require a pension pot of around 600 grand when she retires; and she's bitching about having to pay a about a grand a year into that pot. My heart bleeds for her.

[Phoenix]

reading this thread and watching the news it seems many people in this argument are confusing 'private sector' with the upper echelons of the financial sector

 

not everyone who works in the private sector is rolling in millions, far, far, far from it

 

my pay has been frozen the last 3 years and during that time we've been constantly in fear of further redundancies without the ability to strike or withhold services to protect our jobs... in short, we (the ordinary working man) are all in this together

 

I have agree with that. Some of us are in a worse position than public sector workers.

[Stu Monty]

Public sector pensions are a gigantic unfunded ponzi scheme.

 

Those in the public sector with final salary schemes are, in effect, mugging their fellow taxpayers to achieve unfair and unrealistic benefits that others in defined benefit schemes (i.e. the private sector) can only dream of.

 

Unions who are whipping up strikes to defend this state of affairs are simply a disgrace. This economic situation that effectively enslaves half the population to pay for the earlier retirement of the other half is simply unsustainable.

 

This is a strike of self-interest nothing more, let's not try and dress it up with any nobility. The public sector has benefited hugely from massive increases in investment from a government implementing an unsustainable economic policy fuelled by a massive credit bubble, taxes from an out of control financial service sector and ever increasing levels of borrowing.

 

The bottom line is that however affordable public sector pensions are in the short-term, over the longer term they are simply not sustainable. It's not a problem unique to Britain.

 

Incorrect.

 

They are unsustainable if the most wealthy individuals and corporations are allowed to continue not paying tax. Completely sustainable if they do.

 

That's not a problem unique to Britain.

[Sugar Ape]

I can see this kicking off massively. I'll be there striking and protesting every step of the way, the problem is the likes of the Mail and the Telegraph are going to paint all us civil servants out to be cunts and this whole argument will provide camouflage for Dave and Gideon.

 

 

BBC News - Ed Balls warns unions over pension strike 'trap'

 

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls has urged unions not to fall into a government "trap" by striking over plans to reform public sector pensions.

 

He said Chancellor George Osborne was "desperate" to provoke industrial action so he could blame them for the weak economic recovery.

 

Ministers dismissed the suggestion and said negotiations were still ongoing.

 

But Unison leader Dave Prentis said the government had "scuppered" the talks by appearing unwilling to compromise.

 

Union leaders are threatening the biggest wave of industrial action since the general strike of 1926, after the government unveiled proposals for public sector employees to work longer and pay more for less generous entitlements in retirement.

 

The Association of Teachers and Lecturers - one of three unions due to strike on 30 June - has said it will call off the walkout if the government is willing to discuss the level of increases to pension contributions.

'So frustrating'

 

Mr Balls said the government was deliberately "picking a fight" with the unions.

 

"George Osborne is desperate to have that confrontation - he's been saying it for months," he told the BBC's Andrew Marr programme.

 

"The trade unions must not walk in to the trap of giving George Osborne the confrontation he wants to divert attention from a failing economy. "

 

Mr Balls said he would "not condemn strikes that haven't happened yet", and said he did believe unions wanted to have "a proper debate and discussion".

 

"That's why it's so frustrating to see suddenly the Treasury breaking out of the negotiations and seeming to say, 'We've made decisions'."

 

Treasury Chief Secretary Danny Alexander said the government was "absolutely not" trying to provoke a battle with unions.

 

"There is a huge amount of room for dialogue," he told Sky News. "There is a huge amount of detail about public sector pensions that we've been discussing in the talks... and we need to take that forward over the coming months."

 

He insisted the talks could still be constructive, adding: "I don't think my message is uncompromising at all."

 

But Mr Prentis said a speech by Mr Alexander on Friday, setting out the government's planned changes to pensions, had effectively rendered the talks meaningless.

 

"If we go back into negotiations on the basis of dialogue but no changes in the proposals, what's the point in that?" he told the BBC.

 

"If we can get an assurance that the talks are meaningful.. then obviously we'd continue the talks, but we didn't get that impression on Friday."

 

Unison, which represents 1.3 million people working for local authorities, the NHS, colleges and the police, has not yet balloted its members on industrial action, but Mr Prentis said that would change if they continued "to be treated with disdain".

 

"And it will be the biggest action since 1926 because up to 10 million people will be involved."

Job cuts

 

The PCS union, which represents almost 300,000 civil servants, is one of those set to strike on 30 June, and its leader, Mark Serwotka, told the BBC it was very unlikely that the walkout would be called off.

 

"The government would have to say that they're prepared to seriously negotiate, that they're not going to tell us in advance that everything is going to be worse, that they're prepared to look in a different direction," he said.

 

"I think the chances of that between now and 30 June - if I'm honest on a scale of one to 10 - are fewer than one."

 

Public sector workers are already facing heavy job cuts and a pay freeze.

 

The government's pension proposals would see employees - bar members of the armed forces, police and fire service - receive their occupational pension at the same time as the state pension in future.

 

Many can currently receive a full pension at 60 but the state pension age is due to rise to 66 for both men and women by April 2020.

 

Ministers also want to move the public sector scheme from a final salary system to benefits based on career-average earnings. However, lower paid workers would not have their pension contributions increased.

[Section_31]

Balls shaping up for a run at the Labour leadership lately IMO, comes across very impressive in his almost single-handed handling of the Government's bullshit. Meanwhile Ed Miliband is probably sat in his grandad's shed playing backgammon on his own.

[Strontium]

They are unsustainable if the most wealthy individuals and corporations are allowed to continue not paying tax.

 

 

Since you keep arguing this line, would you happen to have some examples of what you mean?

[dennis tooth]

Since you keep arguing this line, would you happen to have some examples of what you mean?

 

I hope there is no response from Stu who should rise above your baiting.

 

You know what happens to Jewish dogs?

 

BBC News - Jerusalem rabbis 'condemn dog to death by stoning'

[Qwik]

At what level does a salary become that of a fat cat and does tax avoidance of any kind qualify you as one of said fat cats?

[Strontium]

Would I be "playing the victim" again if I complained about being called a Jewish dog, or is racial abuse also tolerated here now?

[Stu Monty]

Would I be "playing the victim" again if I complained about being called a Jewish dog, or is racial abuse also tolerated here now?

 

You are Jewish aren't you? Even so, think that it was over the mark, even if you do feel it's fine to tell people to kill themselves by PM.

 

On the tax thing, I'm getting very bored of your little routine so I'll make it very simple and say that if you really don't believe that there's a wealthy elite not paying tax then would you take up a challenge of paying me £5 for every example I can give you. Or £1 even?

 

And as an aside, do they do postal orders in thousands of pounds?

[Strontium]

You are Jewish aren't you? Even so, think that it was over the mark, even if you do feel it's fine to tell people to kill themselves by PM.

 

 

What's your point, racial epithets are okay so long as they're accurate?

 

Don't ever recall telling anyone to kill themself by PM, I do that openly right here on the forum.

 

On the tax thing, I'm getting very bored of your little routine

 

 

Not a routine. Not a joke or pisstake. I genuinely want to know who these people that are resident in this country and dodging tax are. A list of names would be great. Then I can take that back and ask my party's tax experts what they think.

[Paul]

I deliberately joined the most moderate union when I became a teacher as I think strike action should be the last resort, but I voted for this action with the ATL (the first time in its history the union has even balloted for action never mind actually gone ahead with the strike itself). It's a fucking piss-take what they're suggesting. Why the fuck should I have to pay for the bankers' fuck up of our entire economy? Also, why should I have the terms and conditions I agreed to in good faith when I entered the profession fucked with now?

 

The argument is that the ageing population will cost the taxpayer billions more and the TPS is therefore unsustainable. However, what the fuck do they think will be the effect of raising the retirement age in line with the state one? The profession will be clogged up with late 50s/early 60s teachers who are knackered and very expensive at the top of the pay scale leaving no room for fresh blood at the bottom. In short, a de-motivated and more costly work force. How the fuck does that make sense?

 

I really fucking object to the government rhetoric about the legitimacy of the ballots, too. Don't these cunts know what proportion of the electorate turns out to vote for them or how few of those voting put a government into power? And besides, they're deliberately blocking the use of online strike ballots because they know what the effect would be - a doubling at least of the turnout in a ballot. Cake and eat it? What a surprise from a bunch of hypocritical cunts who are almost certain to wave through the MPs' pension scheme unchanged (for the worse, at least; wouldn't put it past them to improve it).

 

If these public sector pension schemes are so prohibitively expensive then they should close them to new members (with a five year warning for those currently embarking on training and education with a view to a public sector career). However, even that's fucking shit. Surely the public service is a crucial aspect of our society that needs to be valued in monetary terms that will maintain standards?

[silverlining]

I hope there is no response from Stu who should rise above your baiting.

 

You know what happens to Jewish dogs?

 

BBC News - Jerusalem rabbis 'condemn dog to death by stoning'

 

Oh dear. This comes hot on the heels of stories from Iran about their loony beardy types wondering whether or not it is unIslamic to even own dogs, let alone make sweet, sweet love to them.

[silverlining]

 

Don't ever recall telling anyone to kill themself by PM, I do that openly right here on the forum.

 

 

Three recent Private Messages from you to me:

 

"Kill yourself you worthless cunt"

"Kill yourself you evil cunt"

"Kill yourself you worthless piece of shit"

 

So not only are you a dog-fucking cunt, you're also a liar.

Or perhaps just very absent-minded.

Maybe it's a side-effect of the bestiality. I dunno. I'm no expert.

[Section_31]

You're obviously not talented enough Paul, if we don't pay the quality the quality will leave, didn't you get the memo?

 

Bank bonuses may have come from bail-out cash | Interactive Investor

 

Bosses of Britain's four major banks were grilled by the Treasury Committee today in a session which revealed that some money given to bail them out may have been spent on staff bonuses.

 

In an admission which will stun taxpayers, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) boss Stephen Hester said in response to a question from Conservative MP David Ruffley that he believed some of the bail-out cash may have been used to pay bonuses.

 

RBS, which made a loss of more than £1 billion last year, is 83%-owned by taxpayers. Hester's £7.7 million pay package was signed off by the government in April after it emerged that details of the additional £4.5 million potential shares windfall - on top of his £2 million annual bonus and £1.2 million salary for 2010 - had not originally been revealed under the Project Merlin remuneration agreement. RBS also admitted that 323 of its staff were paid almost £1 million each last year.

[Stu Monty]

What's your point, racial epithets are okay so long as they're accurate?

 

Don't ever recall telling anyone to kill themself by PM, I do that openly right here on the forum.

 

Not a routine. Not a joke or pisstake. I genuinely want to know who these people that are resident in this country and dodging tax are. A list of names would be great. Then I can take that back and ask my party's tax experts what they think.

 

And in rep-messages. Either way, I can't be arsed with you deliberately bringing up banning repeatedly whilst sending messages to people telling them to kill themselves. I'm not getting into the Jewish argument, it's far more complicated than most racial commments; but, as I've said, I think it was over the top.

 

On the bold bit - No, you dont. If you did then you'd know by now, because you'd have looked for it. It's not as if there isn't a sea of information about it. I presume you are aware of the internet? Inclination and desire to be informed on this is precisely the problem. Like I say, if you pay me £5 per example I'll do your leg-work for you.

 

The idea that your party's tax experts aren't aware that there are individuals and corporations that are avoiding paying tax, or know who some of them are, is almost child-like in it's naivety. I feel like I'm having a discussion with a child about whether Santa exists.

[stringvest]

This is the first teachers strike I'm 100% behind. Let's see how the private sector likes it when the people that not only educate their kids but look after them while they fuck off to work stop doing it. It's a fucking disgrace that the banking sector can effectively hold the whole fucking country to ransom after failing so miserably, and the government reckons it can just continue to light their big fat fucking cigars off the back of stealing money off the teachers.

 

"But we neeeeed them banks, they pay taxes". Fuck off.

 

I hope this turns into the biggest and most sustained period of strike action since the 70's and 80's.

 

Problem is though Noos, the chattering classes don't have their kids in state schools. It's not going to hurt them in the least. There's no way their comrades in the private school sector will be coming out on strike .

[Strontium]

Three recent Private Messages from you to me:

 

"Kill yourself you worthless cunt"

"Kill yourself you evil cunt"

"Kill yourself you worthless piece of shit"

 

So not only are you a dog-fucking cunt, you're also a liar.

Or perhaps just very absent-minded.

Maybe it's a side-effect of the bestiality. I dunno. I'm no expert.

 

 

Those aren't PMs. You're the only liar here, as well as being a slanderer and a thick cunt. Perhaps you caught something fucking those corpses that addled your brain.