Our war

[Magic Sponge]

 

It was probably pretty hard reading too, given that the average reading age of British army recruits when they sign up is 11 years old.

 

That's absolute bollocks.

 

You're an unfunny cunt at times.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

That would surely depend on how easily brainwashed you were by religious fanatics.

I'm not sure it would depend on that, to be honest. I'd certainly never fight on religious grounds. You know, what with not being religious an' all.

 

Afghani liberal secularists (the ones who were left, anyway) welcomed the "invaders" as liberators.

 

They have been vastly outnumbered by ordinary folk picking up whatever arms they can. Nothing to do with religion, politics, liberalism or anything other than fighting an occupying force.

 

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying that British troops have made no positive impact at all.

 

Comfort yourself with the fact that whatever our troops get up to in Afghanistan, we're not in the same league of bad as the Taliban (not much of a benchmark admittedly).

 

That's not so much a 'fact' as it is a subjective comment. Now, I'm not saying that your British soldier isn't better than your Taliban fighter, but it's much more complicated that a one word 'fact'. Well, to me it is anyway.

 

I believe it is true. And if 11 is the average reading age of 18 year old recruits, that means a lot are even lower.

 

It's a genuinely saddening statistic, if it's true, don't you think? Not only for our schooling, but that we're sending these young lads off to die in a foreign land, for no real reason other than us having Bush's back, yet they don't know how to read any better than an 11 year old. It's almost as if we're growing an army of clones. Makes me sick.

 

I had a reading age of 15 when I was 9, maybe child soldiers are the way to go :whistle:

 

Not sure even I, with a depraved sense of humour, can joke about child soldiers!

[silverlining]

That's absolute bollocks.

 

You're an unfunny cunt at times.

 

"An average reading age within infantry is 11, but the army will recruit from a reading age of seven,"

 

Andy McNab in the Guardian

Post-traumatic stress disorder claims are just an excuse to quit the army, says best-selling SAS author Andy McNab | UK news | The Observer

 

"It is also understood that Army recruiters are struggling to find young men and women of the right physical and mental calibre, robust enough to cope with the demanding training. One defence source told The Sunday Telegraph that the average reading age of recruits, who join on average at the age of 18, was just 11."

 

Record numbers of Army recruits drop out - Telegraph

[dennis tooth]

"An average reading age within infantry is 11, but the army will recruit from a reading age of seven,"

 

Andy McNab in the Guardian

Post-traumatic stress disorder claims are just an excuse to quit the army, says best-selling SAS author Andy McNab | UK news | The Observer

 

"It is also understood that Army recruiters are struggling to find young men and women of the right physical and mental calibre, robust enough to cope with the demanding training. One defence source told The Sunday Telegraph that the average reading age of recruits, who join on average at the age of 18, was just 11."

 

Record numbers of Army recruits drop out - Telegraph

 

Andy McNab? Jesus, not much of a vested interest there then on claiming PTSD is 'just an excuse' from a proven liar and deluded fictionaliser who works for the MOD.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

If that is true and not just propaganda, then it states this average is based on the infantry. Being as the Army has many corps and regiments who ply a trade then it pretty much pisses on your original sweeping generalisation. Being an ex serviceman, albeit from 1980-1990 (things do change) I will admit that a percentage of recruits were uneducated, but the vast majority had a good education behind them.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Andy McNab? Jesus, not much of a vested interest there then on claiming PTSD is 'just an excuse' from a proven liar and deluded fictionaliser who works for the MOD.

 

What about the Telegraph's defence correspondent? I mean, it doesn't sound all that unlikely, does it?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

What about the Telegraph's defence correspondent? I mean, it doesn't sound all that unlikely, does it?

 

It could also be an Army recruitment strategy. They used all sorts of bullshit back in my days to boost recruitment.

 

It is also an average as far as infantrymen go. The senior NCO's and officers are well educated, either before they joined or during their service. The cannon fodder as some would put it are there to do a job, I'd say you have a better chance of getting them to perform certain infantry tasks than a well educated person.

[VladimirIlyich]

I believe the general population has simply learned that they are being used as pawns by rich businessmen and politicians who dont value anybody's life at all but their own.

I realise this maybe a bit of a generalisation but the power of the media seems to have hit home,in most cases,how brutal war really is.

 

Plus theres a lot more living cowards than heroes.

[Magic Sponge]

I joined with 9 G.C.S.E's to do mechanical and electrical engineering. The entry level was 7.

 

I'd also like to point out that the military training and further education is better than in civvy street.

 

That is a sweeping generalisation your making.

[silverlining]

What about the Telegraph's defence correspondent? I mean, it doesn't sound all that unlikely, does it?

 

It sounds very likely to me.

 

A poorly-paid job in which you get shot at?

 

It's not exactly a dream career unless you don't have much choice.

[dennis tooth]

What about the Telegraph's defence correspondent? I mean, it doesn't sound all that unlikely, does it?

 

Not sure what you mean there NV. They are both saying different things, McNab pointing out the PTSD thing and defence correspondant doesn't even mention it. I think one of us is half asleep then.

[dennis tooth]

I joined with 9 G.C.S.E's to do mechanical and electrical engineering. The entry level was 7.

 

I'd also like to point out that the military training and further education is better than in civvy street.

 

That is a sweeping generalisation your making.

 

Agree with that part.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Not sure what you mean there NV. They are both saying different things, McNab pointing out the PTSD thing and defence correspondant doesn't even mention it. I think one of us is half asleep then.

 

"One defence source told The Sunday Telegraph that the average reading age of recruits, who join on average at the age of 18, was just 11."

 

That's the bit I was referring to. Unless we're talking about something different, which is entirely possible.

[dennis tooth]

"One defence source told The Sunday Telegraph that the average reading age of recruits, who join on average at the age of 18, was just 11."

 

That's the bit I was referring to. Unless we're talking about something different, which is entirely possible.

 

Yeah I was only referring to PTSD matters not reading ages.

[withnail71]

I joined with 9 G.C.S.E's to do mechanical and electrical engineering. The entry level was 7.

 

I'd also like to point out that the military training and further education is better than in civvy street.

 

That is a sweeping generalisation your making.

nail on the head. i joined the engineers in 87 and the training and education was superb.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Yeah I was only referring to PTSD matters not reading ages.

 

Hmn, looks like I need to test my reading age.

[zigackly]

I've done a lot of work with the armed forces over the years, and I have nothing but respect for the ones I have met, let alone members of my family who have served. I don't agree with the way politicians use them a lot of the time, but they are a necessity and if no-one signed up we would have a problem. Bit like the police.

[dennis tooth]

Hmn, looks like I need to test my reading age.

 

Myself I'm not sure the whole reading age thing means a lot more than favourite colour in terms of making any serious conclusion. It's a meaningless figure really.

 

Why, well a few reasons but the most demonstrative is SD's claims about his own reading ages, however if he was on my side I'd have PTSD. If he didn't have me killed after making a squeal deal with the other side that is.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I've done a lot of work with the armed forces over the years, and I have nothing but respect for the ones I have met, let alone members of my family who have served. I don't agree with the way politicians use them a lot of the time, but they are a necessity and if no-one signed up we would have a problem. Bit like the police.

 

I'm a believer in a strong, well armed, well funded, well trained defensive force. And I certainly agree with you that they're a necessity. Attacking other countries around the world, increasing the threat of terrorism (to us and to others) whilst we're at it, isn't even close to being a defensive force or a necessity.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that you said it was.

 

 

Myself I'm not sure the whole reading age thing means a lot more than favourite colour in terms of making any serious conclusion. It's a meaningless figure really.

 

Why, well a few reasons but the most demonstrative is SD's claims about his own reading ages, however if he was on my side I'd have PTSD. If he didn't have me killed after making a squeal deal with the other side that is.

 

I think it matters in some respects. It's almost as if we're breeding poorly educated, financially poor, prospect devoid drones to sent out to 'defend' our country in Afghanistan.

[zigackly]

I'm a believer in a strong, well armed, well funded, well trained defensive force. And I certainly agree with you that they're a necessity. Attacking other countries around the world, increasing the threat of terrorism (to us and to others) whilst we're at it, isn't even close to being a defensive force or a necessity.

 

We are roughly in the same place there. I don't believe attacking someone who invades Poland, for instance, should be ruled out though.

[Elmyn Noos]

I watched it without any emotion whatsoever. If these knobheads want to join up and fuck off and kill whoever the politicians tell them to then that's up to them. Personally I see it is a form of natural selection and anything that stops these illiterate thugs from breeding has to be a good thing. What pisses me off is these current media fad of calling them "our boys" and somehow devolving them of all blame for the regular murdering of foreigners in their own country. It's all the politicians faults?? Fuck off. It's popular to hate politicians, so they get the blame. Tony Blair hasn't popped a bullet into a single iraqi to my knowledge.

 

Also, whilst we're on the subject of the programme, please can someone stop the widows/parents/bereaved girlfriends of these morons coming on TV and whinging:

 

a. Innocent little Billy is dead. He only wanted to help people/make a difference/serve his country,etc.

b. Little Billy didn't get the right equipment. Alright, he has far better training and equipment than the peasant farmers he is trying to kill in their own country, but still, he didn't have the latest gadget that the americans get.

c. Little Billy got no support whatsoever when he left the army and discovered to his dismay that the ability to smash another human being to a pulp is not a particularly transferable skill.

 

and finally.. please stop the names getting read out in the house of commons and on the news. It's insincere, and it's also a bit dull.

 

If you are ex armed forces and are reading this, well done you.

[silverlining]

Uh oh

[dennis tooth]

 

I think it matters in some respects. It's almost as if we're breeding poorly educated, financially poor, prospect devoid drones to sent out to 'defend' our country in Afghanistan.

 

Yeah sure but thats got to go back to basic education in some ways, the same system we are cutting and making more mediocre by the day it seems. Andy McNab apparently also had a reading age of 11 when he signed up but again as I say, the job does not require an advanced reading age in most cases so I don't think we can draw much from that alone. We certainly are sending drones out but again, its the fact we are sending anyone out to a thrid world country to protect pipelines and resources that being stolen anyway and I'm not sure if it would matter if they were academics or not anyway. They do primarily recruit the cannon fodder from poor communities, again not in doubt anyway, there is no almost about it. However the academics and intellingent folks are busy designing the weapons, drawing up plans to make future wars, writing propaganda supporting articles in the media and so on. It's a big machine that uses both and sadly the end result is the same, even if we reverse the positions of the academics and grunts it doesn't make much difference either. To me it's splitting hairs on something that shouldn't exist in the first place and doesn't lead anywhere much.

I don't think morals are dependant on IQ or reading ages or any other fictional measure of something that has been proven doesn't actually exist except in perception. DR Shipman had good reading age I'm sure.

Edited June 15, 2011 by dennis tooth

[silverlining]

 

Andy McNab apparently also had a reading age of 11 when he signed up but again as I say, the job does not require an advanced reading age in most cases so I don't think we can draw much from that alone.

 

 

The egregious books he writes for bloodthirsty simpletons to enjoy would suggest that 11 is about where his reading age was when he left the army also.

[dennis tooth]

I watched it without any emotion whatsoever. If these knobheads want to join up and fuck off and kill whoever the politicians tell them to then that's up to them. Personally I see it is a form of natural selection and anything that stops these illiterate thugs from breeding has to be a good thing. What pisses me off is these current media fad of calling them "our boys" and somehow devolving them of all blame for the regular murdering of foreigners in their own country. It's all the politicians faults?? Fuck off. It's popular to hate politicians, so they get the blame. Tony Blair hasn't popped a bullet into a single iraqi to my knowledge.

 

Also, whilst we're on the subject of the programme, please can someone stop the widows/parents/bereaved girlfriends of these morons coming on TV and whinging:

 

a. Innocent little Billy is dead. He only wanted to help people/make a difference/serve his country,etc.

b. Little Billy didn't get the right equipment. Alright, he has far better training and equipment than the peasant farmers he is trying to kill in their own country, but still, he didn't have the latest gadget that the americans get.

c. Little Billy got no support whatsoever when he left the army and discovered to his dismay that the ability to smash another human being to a pulp is not a particularly transferable skill.

 

and finally.. please stop the names getting read out in the house of commons and on the news. It's insincere, and it's also a bit dull.

 

If you are ex armed forces and are reading this, well done you.

 

Here, here.