Our war

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I find the attitudes extremely difficult to understand.

 

I guess that as someone who can't even begin to fathom why someone would join the army, thats inevitable.

 

I can understand, having seen the reasons, why somebody would cheer the death of a foe on the battlefield - because it's kill or be killed - but to actively be excited to do it is either little more than bravado from scared kids, or the act of a cold bastard.

 

Still, the criminals get bigger the higher you go. Blair and Bush need to be on trial, and so should have Osama Bin Laden. Still, we live in a world where logic is pretty much worthless in these situations.

 

Anyway, I'm just watching it on iPlayer now as I finish of some stuff on the computer. I feel for those who know one of them has been hit. It doesn't change the fact that, if I were an Afghan, I'd have likely fought against the invasion. Just the same as I'd fight any invasion on these shores.

[zigackly]

I can understand, having seen the reasons, why somebody would cheer the death of a foe on the battlefield - because it's kill or be killed - but to actively be excited to do it is either little more than bravado from scared kids, or the act of a cold bastard.

 

I reckon it's answer (a) in 99.9% of cases. What do I win?

[Guest PurpleNose]

Aren't they sucked in by all the glossy adverts which make it look like an adventure holiday and then have the "get some" attitude drilled into them by a combination of training and peer bonding?

 

Regardless, it's hard to put yourself in another man's head so I try not to be too judgemental. It wouldn't be for me. I expect I'd be in a ditch shitting myself.

 

Likewise. I've no idea what I'd be like in combat. I'd like to think I could remain composed, even emotionless at times. I am usually, and especially when working. But nothing could really prepare you for the situations you'd encounter at war. Not mentally.

 

I guess the bravado is just a defence mechanism of sorts, and you have to at least pretend what you're doing has a purpose, and is "right". Otherwise you simply couldn't do it. Which I couldn't.

[zigackly]

Likewise. I've no idea what I'd be like in combat. I'd like to think I could remain composed, even emotionless at times. I am usually, and especially when working. But nothing could really prepare you for the situations you'd encounter at war. Not mentally.

 

I guess the bravado is just a defence mechanism of sorts, and you have to at least pretend what you're doing has a purpose, and is "right". Otherwise you simply couldn't do it. Which I couldn't.

 

I've spoken to various people who've been in combat situations and they all agree that nothing will prepare you for it. Surely some psyching up is required for many though.

[Guest PurpleNose]

I can understand, having seen the reasons, why somebody would cheer the death of a foe on the battlefield - because it's kill or be killed - but to actively be excited to do it is either little more than bravado from scared kids, or the act of a cold bastard.

 

Still, the criminals get bigger the higher you go. Blair and Bush need to be on trial, and so should have Osama Bin Laden. Still, we live in a world where logic is pretty much worthless in these situations.

 

Anyway, I'm just watching it on iPlayer now as I finish of some stuff on the computer. I feel for those who know one of them has been hit. It doesn't change the fact that, if I were an Afghan, I'd have likely fought against the invasion. Just the same as I'd fight any invasion on these shores.

 

Yes, I was going to say in my earlier post, its much easier to understand the attitudes of the Afghans. Far less choice.

 

Regarding Bush and Blair, only certain countries are capable of war crimes.

[Magic Sponge]

Can see this thread going well.

 

Your crystal ball was correct.

 

I don't think things will be said that havn't already been said in the past.

[russ1979]

never mind talking about right and wrong, as far a tv goes it was fascinating to watch. The fact that most of them looked about 12, didn,t have a clue on what they were doing, They were actually cheering when they came into contact with the taliban untill it all hit home when somebody got shot and they started freaking out.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

To hear his Mum reading his letter out is pretty hard viewing.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

never mind talking about right and wrong, as far a tv goes it was fascinating to watch. The fact that most of them looked about 12, didn,t have a clue on what they were doing, They were actually cheering when they came into contact with the taliban untill it all hit home when somebody got shot and they started freaking out.

 

No more than kids, a lot of them. It's the same through the world. You see kids in Afghanistan and Iraq, you see it in Palestine, you saw it in Vietnam. Kids, going out to kill or be killed on the whim of a politician, or a set of politicians.

[Magic Sponge]

 

No more than kids, a lot of them. It's the same through the world. You see kids in Afghanistan and Iraq, you see it in Palestine, you saw it in Vietnam. Kids, going out to kill or be killed on the whim of a politician, or a set of politicians.

 

Have you ever been to a war zone NN?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Have you ever been to a war zone NN?

 

Yes, several times. That said, considerably different situations to those with the British Army in Afghanistan.

[Magic Sponge]

 

Yes, several times. That said, considerably different situations to those with the British Army in Afghanistan.

 

In what capacity? If you don't mind me asking.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

PM'd you.

[Captain]

I can understand, having seen the reasons, why somebody would cheer the death of a foe on the battlefield - because it's kill or be killed - but to actively be excited to do it is either little more than bravado from scared kids, or the act of a cold bastard.

 

I don't think being a cold bastard comes into it. It's about doing what you've trained quite a lot for. And looking forward to putting all your traning into accomplishing your mission at the best of your abilities.

[razor]

Good to see another thread where the OP asks for opinions and then goes into a rage when he receives them. Razor, it's not at all out of order to voice opinions on servicemen, why is it that some people think that as soon at you put camo on your actions, and your death, should be above comment? Such a messed up position to hold.

 

No, not saying it's out of order. I'm saying for the sake of tact / sensitivity I for one would not state such strong views, at least as vociferously as a couple of posts have.

 

I have argued with a soldier and it ended up getting nasty. That was when Britain wasn't at war.

 

I have no doubt that Moglet and Brap have horrible first hand experiences, and that often takes rationality out of the equation. (Actually, "taking rationality out" is part of basic training, my uncle who was in the Army informed me.)

 

I marched in London both times. I was, and continue to be thoroughly disgusted by the war.

 

These lads are probably alright in the right circumstances (ie not talking about the war). Moglet and Brap both refer to "hard man" etc as they measure a lot of the qualities of people by their physical hardness.

 

NV places more value on a person's intellect. As part of that intellect I was guessing that not being provocative in the physical company of experienced soldiers may be a good tactic.

 

But that doesn't diminish his position, or make him a coward or make him wrong.

 

So, in short, I'm not saying it's wrong to make comment on soldiers, but it may be less pointed if you're making comment to soldiers. In direct answer to Moglet's proposition.

 

NV sees soldiers as victims, and this is an opinion I share.

[zigackly]

Watched it in full last night, and I can't say I recognised what several people were on about earlier in the thread, as it had built me up to believe they would all be gung-ho and "get some", but in fact they were not half as bad as US Marines for instance.

 

One thing that did strike me, is that I'm not sure whether it would be worse to be under fire or have David Brent as your sergeant.

[VladimirIlyich]

I dont think i could watch it as i feel sympathy for all involved.

The true enemies in this conflict sit thousands of miles away while organising their armies down phones or over the internet,a lot like a reality game of risk.

 

One of the best quotes i ever heard was in blackadder where baldrick asks blackadder what are the reasons for this next offensive and blackadder replies,'To move General Haig's whisky cabinet an inch closer to Berlin!'

And i truly believe that these nonsense kind of decisions are still being made by these same types of people.

Back then it maybe have been about land or political fallings out while now its nearly always about oil.

[Pony Princess]

Must admit I generally had the opinion of 'you're basically a paid killer, so getting shot at is part of your job', but watching that young lad dying and then his mum and dad reading out his letters and the letter from his sarge was pretty hard viewing.

 

Definately be watching it again this week.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Must admit I generally had the opinion of 'you're basically a paid killer, so getting shot at is part of your job', but watching that young lad dying and then his mum and dad reading out his letters and the letter from his sarge was pretty hard viewing.

 

Definately be watching it again this week.

 

Lump in my throat over that. Also, hearing the author of the letter read it out was pretty harsh.

[silverlining]

To hear his Mum reading his letter out is pretty hard viewing.

 

It was probably pretty hard reading too, given that the average reading age of British army recruits when they sign up is 11 years old.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

It was probably pretty hard reading too, given that the average reading age of British army recruits when they sign up is 11 years old.

 

Jesus, is that true?

[Guest The Chimp]

Why is it that you seldom see accusations of being a foreign inavder or oppressor used against those in Afghanistan who hail from Bosnia, Uzebekisatan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc; or likewise those in the Sudan, Somalia etc.

 

I'm under no delusions as to why troops are there but I tend to save my ire for the cunts that sent them there in the first place.

[zigackly]

I'm under no delusions as to why troops are there but I tend to save my ire for the cunts that sent them there in the first place.

 

Quite.

[Strontium]

I feel for those who know one of them has been hit. It doesn't change the fact that, if I were an Afghan, I'd have likely fought against the invasion.

 

 

That would surely depend on how easily brainwashed you were by religious fanatics. Afghani liberal secularists (the ones who were left, anyway) welcomed the "invaders" as liberators. Comfort yourself with the fact that whatever our troops get up to in Afghanistan, we're not in the same league of bad as the Taliban (not much of a benchmark admittedly).

 

Jesus, is that true?

 

 

I believe it is true. And if 11 is the average reading age of 18 year old recruits, that means a lot are even lower. I had a reading age of 15 when I was 9, maybe child soldiers are the way to go :whistle:

[dennis tooth]

That would surely depend on how easily brainwashed you were by religious fanatics. Afghani liberal secularists (the ones who were left, anyway) welcomed the "invaders" as liberators. Comfort yourself with the fact that whatever our troops get up to in Afghanistan, we're not in the same league of bad as the Taliban (not much of a benchmark admittedly).

 

I'd agree we are not in the same league, however you must think the killing of civilians is a good thing to say we are not as bad, given that we have tripled their high score. You may describe us as financial or resource fanatics and you should provide evidence that Afghani liberal secularists welcomed us as liberators before making such foolish statements as you are about to discover should you try to provide some half arse evidence for your claim.