Third World War

[Sugar Ape]

Fucking hell civil war,you are joking?

 

Just you wait till the Roundheads and the cavaliers start clashing again.

[jamespp]

Please tell me you are joking

 

well im not joking no, i cant see the future, the whole thread is just guessing

 

maybe we can bump this in 40 years?

[WaltonRed]

Well tell you what, you go on the side of the mongs who think 'its failed' and i'll go on the side of everyone else

 

Deal?

[Strontium]

You really don't think that scarcity resources are a far more likely cause?

 

 

I think our ability to reuse, recycle and conserve resources will make that less of an issue as time goes on.

[jamespp]

Well tell you what, you go on the side of the mongs who think 'its failed' and i'll go on the side of everyone else

 

Deal?

 

im not on any side, i was just playing devils advocate to try and promote debate but forget it

[Cardie]

 

well im not joking no, i cant see the future, the whole thread is just guessing

 

maybe we can bump this in 40 years?

 

In 40 years the Internet will have become self aware and killed us all.

[stringvest]

I need to rep the 'pike' tagger.

 

ta, Lurtzy.

[dennis tooth]

I think our ability to reuse, recycle and conserve resources will make that less of an issue as time goes on.

 

What a fucking woppa you are.

 

I hope you choke waiting for it.

[longballs]

Albert Einstein quote - I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

[Strontium]

What a fucking woppa you are.

 

I hope you choke waiting for it.

 

 

I can decide if you are mad as a box of frogs, or as dumb as a bag of rocks.

 

Maybe as mad and dumb as a bucket of fossilised frogs.

[Stu Monty]

I think our ability to reuse, recycle and conserve resources will make that less of an issue as time goes on.

 

I'm honestly not try to patronise here; have you done much reading on how deep we already are into this thing? From what I've read we are already past the point where we can avoid some serious trouble and our continuing inaction is only going to exacerbate that.

 

Without wanting to cross streams on other threads, one of the problems is that the people with the capability to influence the big decisions will not be the ones that will suffer come the shortages. There is no real problem for the top 5% of the planet if 35% of it is turned to wasteland, as they are highly mobile and financially bombproofed.

 

It's a real shame that Obama realises that the US needs to take more of the pain than China and India but also realises that he can't do a deal on those terms as he couldn't sell it to his people. They'll regret it when half of Mexico wants in, as their land is now barren. Shit's gon' get ugly.

[Cardie]

Stronts already has a hideaway in the woods stocked to the ceiling with dried and canned goods bottled water, labradors and lube.

 

He'll be able to see out the worst of it

[G Richards]

I don't think we will see a third world war in my lifetime (I'm 40 now). I think there will be posturing and regional skirmishes, but I can't see a true world war as there is too much to lose on all sides.

 

China is projected to surpass America economically in about another decade. China's military is a long way further behind America's, though in about thirty years I suspect it will be much more even. That's when another world war will be possible.

 

Until then we will have regional skirmishes, and the possibility of one or two of them going nuclear is there - Iran/Israel; India/Pakistan. Either one of these has the built in prospect of seeing millions killed, so 'skirmishes' is probably the wrong word. But I suspect they won't escalate to a true global world war, as no major power will stand against whatever America wants - not for another generation, anyhow.

[jonnybastard]

im not on any side, i was just playing devils advocate to try and promote debate but forget it

 

Well said nick griffin. Always thought you were just misunderstood.

[Strontium]

I'm honestly not try to patronise here; have you done much reading on how deep we already are into this thing? From what I've read we are already past the point where we can avoid some serious trouble and our continuing inaction is only going to exacerbate that.

 

 

Well, what is it you've read?

 

I'm sure we are due some trouble, at the same time I believe in the boundless potential of mankind to solve any problem, and solutions for most of these problems already exist. For instance, the world's deserts could be providing all the electricity we could ever need by the middle of the century, with the right political will there.

[dennis tooth]

Well, what is it you've read?

 

I'm sure we are due some trouble, at the same time I believe in the boundless potential of mankind to solve any problem, and solutions for most of these problems already exist. For instance, the world's deserts could be providing all the electricity we could ever need by the middle of the century, with the right political will there.

 

No, it's a scientific consensus on the matter, the people who don't 'think' they 'test' vigourously and fairy tales based on the 'boundless potential of mankind' do not impress them with such deluded optimism. However no worry, your sure, something will do something somewhere, something those scientists have yet to think of. Alrighty then!

[cochyn]

No, it's a scientific consensus on the matter, the people who don't 'think' they 'test' vigourously and fairy tales based on the 'boundless potential of mankind' do not impress them with such deluded optimism. However no worry, your sure, something will do something somewhere, something those scientists have yet to think of. Alrighty then!

 

Check out Private Frazer here..

 

To sidetrack a bit - there are plans afoot to extend renewable energy grids to include vast photovoltaic arrays in North Africa. Also, have a look here:

 

Seawater Greenhouse | Projects

 

This is the start of something big - making the world's deserts arable and it's working.

 

Necessity is the mother of Invention, dennis.

[RedinSweden]

It will be about cheese classification.

[dennis tooth]

Check out Private Frazer here..

 

To sidetrack a bit - there are plans afoot to extend renewable energy grids to include vast photovoltaic arrays in North Africa. Also, have a look here:

 

Seawater Greenhouse | Projects

 

This is the start of something big - making the world's deserts arable and it's working.

 

Necessity is the mother of Invention, dennis.

 

It's already too late, the camels back has been broken and you can take a dead camel to water but you cant make it drink even if you flog it.

 

Throwing more short straws on it's corpse, it's dead of course!

[Stu Monty]

Well, what is it you've read?

 

I'm sure we are due some trouble, at the same time I believe in the boundless potential of mankind to solve any problem, and solutions for most of these problems already exist. For instance, the world's deserts could be providing all the electricity we could ever need by the middle of the century, with the right political will there.

 

Various different sources but some of the good ones, off the top of my head, have been Gwynne Dyer, Bill McKibben of 350.org and George Monbiot. Dyer's Climate Wars is probably the best thing I've read on this, and the breadth of knowledgable people predicting real trouble with food supply is scary.

 

There is a reason why military analysts are investing a lot of time into this area of study, and that's because it a very, very real threat that it's going to kick off when the temperature is too high for a lot of crops, water supply is disrupted and massive areas of land are flooded. Pakistan are building a wall to keep the Bangladeshis out. They know what's coming. We're going to need massive developments in genetic modification of food if food supply isn't going to fall well short of what is required. I accept that we may innovate our way out of power problems but we have already passed the point where food shortages can be avoided. Serious work on the genetic engineering of food may well help out the developed world but things are going to get even shitter for the rest.

 

Sadly, the worldwide nature of climate change lessens the self-interest for individual nations to push their own progress. The issue of free riders doing nothing is a problem, as is the issue of trying to get people to move out of the way of a cannonball they cannot yet see with their own eyes.

 

Put it this way, I'm fucking glad I was born well away from the equator.

[cochyn]

See I may be being naive, but I just simply don't buy all this climate change = apocalypse! As Stronts alludes to, as one resource depletes, mankind finds an alternative - and it's usually an improvement. It's a process which takes decades and centuries to come about but we adapt and change.

 

All that said, surely if the desert belt is spreading, surely temperate zones will expand accordingly? Last time I checked an atlas, there was a LOT of Arctic tundra in Canada and Russia ripe for this to expand into..

 

The real climactic threat is the weakening of magnetic poles. Elevated solar radiation will see the human race slowly trimmed down by skin cancer over the next 30,000 years. Buy shares in Ambre Solaire - that's all I can say.

[cochyn]

..

[Stu Monty]

See I may be being naive, but I just simply don't buy all this climate change = apocalypse! As Stronts alludes to, as one resource depletes, mankind finds an alternative - and it's usually an improvement. It's a process which takes decades and centuries to come about but we adapt and change.

 

All that said, surely if the desert belt is spreading, surely temperate zones will expand accordingly? Last time I checked an atlas, there was a LOT of Arctic tundra in Canada and Russia ripe for this to expand into..

 

The real climactic threat is the weakening of magnetic poles. Elevated solar radiation will see the human race slowly trimmed down by skin cancer over the next 30,000 years. Buy shares in Ambre Solaire - that's all I can say.

 

Aye, so are you suggesting that the many countries situated around the equator will take solace that the Russians, Canadians and Scandos are plump and happy whilst they slowly starve?

 

There are vast swathes of land decidates to certain crops, I'm not sure that it's easy to just up and move them all north. How do you move the US bread basket up north?

[cochyn]

Aye, so are you suggesting that the many countries situated around the equator will take solace that the Russians, Canadians and Scandos are plump and happy whilst they slowly starve?

 

I doubt they'll care. If the world gets warmer and wetter then surely the tropics will flourish? It's sub-saharan Africa that will suffer. But then no more than it has through habitat loss over the last century or so. Political stability would go a long way to stabilising the entire continent making it highly productive in perpetuity.

 

 

There are vast swathes of land decidates to certain crops, I'm not sure that it's easy to just up and move them all north. How do you move the US bread basket up north?

 

With tanks, and a big red-pen to re-draw the borders? Or the US go pell-mell for GM crops that can withstand more arid climates I guess. My experience of American food is most of it's fucking tasteless anyway so a GM crop of low quality will hardly be noticed by most consumers.

 

Sorry for veering off-topic here, like..

[dennis tooth]

GM'ing is a dangerous game no matter how clever we think we are, it's simply an experiment that could lead to a food disaster in the long run because we simply have not yet learned enough. All these supposed solutions are just experiments that may or may not lead to worse issues which are unforseen.

BBC News - Parts of England officially facing drought conditions

 

Just on the idea of as "resource depletes, mankind finds an alternative" is not really borne out by history for me, there are so many groups who have been wiped out due to collapse of their environment so if history tells us anything its that we as a species tend to sleepwalk into disaster.

We haven't even got anywhere to safely store all the spent nuclear fuel in the world for 10,000 years and every day we produce more of it and we've got politicians lining up to offer the best solution they can come up with for climate change is to produce lots of spent nuclear fuel and open more nuclear power plant facilities. Yeah, theres loads of reasons to find optimism even though the best science says we have grossly underestimated how far past the point of return we are but society just isn't ready to accept that yet. As if its some sort of issue like gay marriage or something and our and the rest of the planets survival wasn't at stake.

 

Look around you are the rest of the cosmos and try to find some life amidst the millions of lifeless planets and realise we are the fragile exception rather than the norm a black swan and the fact that we are even here to ask these questions is a major miracle. So there is no room for arrogance on the matter, if we found a fly on mars it would be the biggest moment of human history but how cheaply we treat life, I lose count of the amount of species mankind has directly and indirectly wiped permanently out just for shits and giggles mostly in more modern times but in past times due to overhunting for food. Now we just put concrete over the lands so it cant breath, build skyscrapers that cut out the wind that recycles the air taking pollutants out to sea and cooling the land, it's a self feeding system and if we had designed a system to destroy the planet we couldn't dream of finding something more efficient than capitalism.

 

The idea that capitalism can exist outside of nature is the root of this, idiots who don't or refuse to accept that capitalism is only able to exist because of nature and the environment around not the other way around. Until people understand and get their priorities straight we have no hope and even if they do tomorrow we have little hope as its already done, the solutions for tomorrow are no good we need solutions to treat the damage done now.