Stewart Downing

[BenR_]

For a start, I've never really rated Ashley Young. He takes a good set piece, generally, and has pace to burn. That's about it. Downing is a more clever footballer in terms of using his ability within the side rather just bombing past people.

 

The thing is, and what a lot of people always seem to forget at this time of year, a good side is made up of a collection of individuals that function superbly together rather than a collectiong of 'better' individuals that don't.

 

I don't think Downing will be an automatic starter for us next season, if our plans go well that is, but I do think he'll give us the balance, versatility and options we need within the squad to be competitive.

 

I'm absolutely baffled that you think Downing won't be an automatic starter if he signs mate. He will be one of the key signings this summer and most likely the biggest money signing in the wide\forward positions.

 

£20m + for a squad player? Come on, you're lying to yourself. I think Kenny will have considerable funds but very few teams can afford squad players at those prices, we're not one of them. Besides, isn't buying 27 year old squad players something we've always bemoaned?

 

I think the love-in for Downing recently is borne out of people massively underestimating his price tag. He will not go for 10-15m, hell 10m-12m they'll be making a loss! Are you for serious? It will be at least £20m and probably more. I wouldn't mind a player like Downing in terms of playstyle, as an option for the squad, though I think we shouldn't buy squad players per se. But that player can't be Downing because he will never, ever be brought in as a squad option. He will, most likely, be no. 1 signing out wide, unless we're planning a marquee signing for those positions. And even then I'd be disappointed that we pissed so much money up the wall for him when it could have been far better used.

Edited May 29, 2011 by BenR_

[Red Nick]

I still hope we will sign a player like Downing and a player like Mata as well. We need options and strength in depth. At the moment we have just Maxi and Kuyt who can really be described as wide players, and neither of them is particularly fast or a particularly reknowned crosser of the ball. Kuyt is also our backup striker and has proved he's a great option with Suarez. I'm not sure what Cole is any more, and I would prefer Meireles to play centrally.

 

To my mind that means we need two in.

 

I really wonder if we will

 

Working on the basis that everyone is fit and ready to play and we bought Mata and Downing, you would then have to play Carroll and Suarez, which means Gerrard and Lucas or Adam in the centre, just dont see that working.

 

anyway its all conjecture until our major signings are finalised

[MLB]

I'm absolutely baffled that you think Downing won't be an automatic starter if he signs mate. He will be one of the key signings this summer and most likely the biggest money signing in the wide\forward positions.

 

£20m + for a squad player? Come on, you're lying to yourself. I think Kenny will have considerable funds but very few teams can afford squad players at those prices, we're not one of them. Besides, isn't buying 27 year old squad players something we've always bemoaned?

 

 

Why do you keep stating that Downing will cost £20+ million? No one knows how much he will cost. Agenda much?

 

For what it's worth, I agree that he will be a first choice if he signs. I don't think he is our number 1 objective for that position, mind you, but as I say above, the other players are looking at would be much harder to sign.

[zigackly]

I really wonder if we will

 

Working on the basis that everyone is fit and ready to play and we bought Mata and Downing, you would then have to play Carroll and Suarez, which means Gerrard and Lucas or Adam in the centre, just dont see that working.

 

anyway its all conjecture until our major signings are finalised

 

I don't see things as simply as what our "first eleven" is Nick. Like it or not it is a squad game these days and you have to be able to maintain a level when players are out injured, and you also need options on the bench.

 

If we only buy one wide player then we would find it difficult to cope with two injuries to our attackers and maintain fitness in the others, and would also have nothing to change a game.

 

This is why I struggle to understand why people can prejudge our summer business just because we are linked with a particular player. We've been linked just as strongly with Mata as Downing, yet you would think from this thread the apocalypse is on the way.

 

And I do believe we will play Suarez off Carroll for the majority of our games mate. I also think it's madness to suggest that Gerrard and Lucas can't play in the centre. I'm not that bothered about Adam and I hope he was just a target of opportunity in January, but again, how can you say he can't play in the centre? That's where he plays mate!

[MLB]

I really wonder if we will

 

Working on the basis that everyone is fit and ready to play and we bought Mata and Downing, you would then have to play Carroll and Suarez, which means Gerrard and Lucas or Adam in the centre, just dont see that working.

 

anyway its all conjecture until our major signings are finalised

 

 

We won't sign Mata AND Downing. It will be Marveaux and one other (imo, obviously).

[Torvald Utne]

I think Downing is a better player than Young but both get a big fat "meh" from me.

[zigackly]

We won't sign Mata AND Downing.

 

Why not? I am trying to blot out all knowledge of us being linked with Marveaux.

[MLB]

I think Downing is a better player than Young but both get a big fat "meh" from me.

 

 

Young to Utd is pretty much a done deal now anyway, isn't it? Can't really see where he's going to play for them, but whatever. I'd much rather they got him than someone like Modric or Sneijder.

[Section_31]

I bet I could fins stats to prove Audley Harrison isn't shit, if I had enough time.

[MLB]

Why not? I am trying to blot out all knowledge of us being linked with Marveaux.

 

 

Just my opionion mate. I don't think Downing would come here without assurances about playing regularly, and I don't think we would be looking to spend that kind of money on a squad player. Reading between the lines it looks like Marveaux is about 95% certain to come here. I think we have definitely asked about Hazard and Mata, but if we can't get either of them then Downing will likely be next in line.

[Funkasy]

im sure united are selling Nani in the summer and that's why they are buying Young.

[zigackly]

Just my opionion mate. I don't think Downing would come here without assurances about playing regularly, and I don't think we would be looking to spend that kind of money on a squad player. Reading between the lines it looks like Marveaux is about 95% certain to come here. I think we have definitely asked about Hazard and Mata, but if we can't get either of them then Downing will likely be next in line.

 

I hope we don't sign just one decent wide player and an unknown quantity on a free. That could be a huge mistake.

[MLB]

I hope we don't sign just one decent wide player and an unknown quantity on a free. That would be a huge mistake.

 

 

I'm not as pessimistic as you on that score, but I admit it would be a risk. We might have no option but to take a risk though as we're not in a strong position in the transfer market.

 

For what it's worth (which isn't much, admittedly), I think we still have an outside chance of signing Mata. I don't think it's likely, personally, but you never know. Comolli will have to sell the club to him big time though, and hope that the likes of City don't make a move.

[zigackly]

I don't know how strong a position we are in, but I do think people underestimate our draw. Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus and others have all been able to sign good players when they were out of Europe because players know those are names who will be back up there sooner or later, and we are in that bracket. Even clubs like Chelsea and City have been able to sign players to take them to the next level when they were relatively unfashionable because players knew they had the financial means to make it into that tier.

 

Players make a gamble on winning something when they join a club, which is tempered by financial considerations, and I think it is clear we are on the way up in both regards. I also think FSG will want to make at least one statement of intent like they did in January. Suarez and Carroll had no hesitation about joining us then and no-one would have bet on us finishing top five at that point.

 

I also think it will be Kenny doing the hard sell not Commoli, and I can't think of anyone more infectious. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating of course, but I'm not all that concerned.

Edited May 29, 2011 by zigackly

[Iantn]

I don't think we would be looking to spend that kind of money on a squad player.

 

I think there's a category inbetween squad player and first team starter, to be honest.

[RoyHodgeGone]

I can only assume we've done all the medical checks on Marveaux. From what I've heard he's a good player, but a perma-crock is no use to anyone.

[Phoenix]

I can only assume we've done all the medical checks on Marveaux. From what I've heard he's a good player, but a perma-crock is no use to anyone.

 

Probably the same medical checks as Aurelio.

 

No guarantees

[Il Fenomeno]

Why do you keep stating that Downing will cost £20+ million? No one knows how much he will cost. Agenda much?

 

For what it's worth, I agree that he will be a first choice if he signs. I don't think he is our number 1 objective for that position, mind you, but as I say above, the other players are looking at would be much harder to sign.

 

Why would Villa, who have in all probability already lost one of their star players for a pretty small fee, sell us Downing (their player of the year) for any less than £18m?

 

They bought him for £12m, I HIGHLY doubt they'll be wanting to make a loss on him, and they'll want enough money to buy a capable replacement, so if you think someone who thinks Downing will cost near enough £20m has an agenda, then you're being ridiculous.

[Iantn]

I'm absolutely baffled that you think Downing won't be an automatic starter if he signs mate. He will be one of the key signings this summer and most likely the biggest money signing in the wide\forward positions.

 

£20m + for a squad player? Come on, you're lying to yourself. I think Kenny will have considerable funds but very few teams can afford squad players at those prices, we're not one of them. Besides, isn't buying 27 year old squad players something we've always bemoaned?

 

I think the love-in for Downing recently is borne out of people massively underestimating his price tag. He will not go for 10-15m, hell 10m-12m they'll be making a loss! Are you for serious? It will be at least £20m and probably more. I wouldn't mind a player like Downing in terms of playstyle, as an option for the squad, though I think we shouldn't buy squad players per se. But that player can't be Downing because he will never, ever be brought in as a squad option. He will, most likely, be no. 1 signing out wide, unless we're planning a marquee signing for those positions. And even then I'd be disappointed that we pissed so much money up the wall for him when it could have been far better used.

 

I think there is a difference between automatic starter and squad player, to be honest. The likes of Suarez and Gerrard will be automatic starters. The likes of Shelvey will be squad players and in between that we'll have players like Downing, Meireles and Kuyt etc. These players will play probably round 70-75% of our minutes next season but they'll be playing when we deem to be the correct setup for that game more than this is our eleven no matter what and the rest are our back ups.

 

I'd doubt we'd go over 20 million for Downing but then again if we do then it shows the amount of faith the King and Comolli have in the lad.

 

I can't believe that we'll go into the season with Downing being our major attacking signing. I just don't buy that. I think we'll look to add a core of good Premier League proven lads that can add depth to our starters and then add to them from abroad to achieve round 7 players that will start every game when fit. The rest, probably round 10-12 players, will get a lot of games but will spend times on the bench. Certain games or when they are outta form. Beyond them we'll have our youngsters. That's how I see us setting up anyway.

 

But until the window closes at the end of August it's all guess work from all of us.

[MLB]

Why would Villa, who have in all probability already lost one of their star players for a pretty small fee, sell us Downing (their player of the year) for any less than £18m?

 

They bought him for £12m, I HIGHLY doubt they'll be wanting to make a loss on him, and they'll want enough money to buy a capable replacement, so if you think someone who thinks Downing will cost near enough £20m has an agenda, then you're being ridiculous.

 

 

There is a difference between "near enough £20m" and "£20+ million", for one thing. Also, you can speculate all you want about the fee, the fact is that you don't know what the fee might be and how the deal might be structured. None of us do. People are just pulling figures out of their arse and using it as a stick to beat the lad with before he's even signed. If criticizing a player based on a fee that hasn't even been established yet doesn't smack of an agenda then I don't know what does.

[wevegot5]

Whoever comes in will have to hit the ground running, same as rest of squad, because we have no European games to blood anyone.

If we went out of Carling and FA Cups in first games, would only be playing 40 games in a season, not up to 55+, like normal.

Not sure who is coming in, but better be quality and completely fit or going to be another season of nothing.

[dennis tooth]

I think Downing is a better player than Young but both get a big fat "meh" from me.

 

I've never been a big fan of Downing and did a Numero Nueve when we were linked with him under Benitez. I would not want him to play in a Benitez team as Rafa's tactics need a wide man who can do a little bit more, from a defensive work rate and skil perspective. He is a rich man's left footed Nunez in a Benitez team. In a Dalglish type team he would be a different kettle of fish and becomes a rich man's Stuart Ripley, his wingers tend to have a very simple job because all they are there to do in the main is put the ball in for the two very good strikers Dalglish tends to play with consistently who will do the rest. Football is a much simpler game to Kenny whereas Rafa treats it in a much more complicated way and as such make different demands on their players and load their teams to suit.

Having said that if I had to choose between the two as we are, it would be Downing everytime, not particularly because he is a better player, there is very little between them, but becuase he is the better player FOR US.

With Carrol in the box and potentially Glen Johnson overlapping on the left, the last thing we need is a player in front of him who will also not cross the ball on his left foot and will cut in more often than not as GJ would also like to do. In fact put Glen Johnson at LM and he would do just as good a job, if not better than Ashley Young for us.

Downing is a player who will add balance, hold his position out wide to stretch teams and more to the point will be able to ping balls into the box on his natural foot, without having to do 5 stepovers and take on 12 players. He is a player who, like Beckham doesn't need to do that to deliver the ball, Beckham a very limited player in many ways but his one strength was good enough to provide Van Nistelrooy goal after goal but put Micheal Owen and Wayne Rooney up front and it wouldn't have been easy for him, in that case an Ashley Young cutting would be suitable but we have a potential Van Nistelrooy in our team so need to play to our strengths.

Young will not come though and will fuck us off for the Mancs without batting an eyelid which brings into question his commitment anyway so the comparison is moot. Young will not be coming and I for one am glad, as overrated as Downing has been in the past Young is more so for me, a quite indulged player in a Villa side who have threatened to do precisely nothing and tends to be a player who produces only against weak teams who thinks he is better than he is. So I think the only issue becomes to price tag which we dont yet know and can either agree to or walk away from but I see no reason for us to feel the need to be held to ransom if thet talk silly money.

Edited May 29, 2011 by dennis tooth

[MLB]

I just wish we could get Baines as well because we would have fantastic left footed delivery with him, Adam and Downing in the team.

[The Dude Abides]

I could really give a fuck about "width", or "delivery" tbh. I want players that play between the lines, players with imagination, guile and craft. Who are willing to receive the ball in tight areas, get their foot on it, turn and make something happen.

 

Especially after what we saw last night, that is the bench mark, that's what we should be aiming for.

[Il Fenomeno]

There is a difference between "near enough £20m" and "£20+ million", for one thing. Also, you can speculate all you want about the fee, the fact is that you don't know what the fee might be and how the deal might be structured. None of us do. People are just pulling figures out of their arse and using it as a stick to beat the lad with before he's even signed. If criticizing a player based on a fee that hasn't even been established yet doesn't smack of an agenda then I don't know what does.

 

This speculating was happening in the Fabio Coentrao thread and the Luis Suarez thread aswell, it's nothing to do with having an agenda and being anti-Downing, it's just someone's opinion on a transfer.

 

Anyway, I'm sure most of the figures are based on Brownie's original post about the deal, no one has really made anything up. Ben might've exaggerated the fee for dramatic effect, but apart from that I think most have stuck to what Brownie said about the deal.