LFC Supporters Committee Announced

[Red Nick]

In reality this is the end for people like SOS they are very cleverly putting in there own Supporters group that they can control.

[stringvest]

A likely story.

 

ooohh you are awful.... but I like you

[Guest ShoePiss]

In reality this is the end for people like SOS they are very cleverly putting in there own Supporters group that they can control.

 

I doubt Paul Rice agrees with that statement.

[Durango]

I buy general admission tickets and my postcode doesnt start with 'L'

 

Well fuck off you woolyback cunt,

 

go and support your local team!!

[Captain]

At least we got one good Norwegian on the committee.

 

You applied for the International fans spot, didn't you?

[Red Baron II]

Well fuck off you woolyback cunt,

 

go and support your local team!!

 

Nice. I can see with supporters like you the future of the club is in great hands. As it happens, my father was born and raised in Liverpool and went to matches as far back as the 1950s. He took me to my first games when I was a kid (Paisley was in charge back then) and now I take my son to the games. So that's 3 generations of my family that have been Liverpool supporters...not that I should have to justify it just because of my postcode. If you ever have to move out of the city because of your job or whatever, are you going to stop supporting Liverpool?

 

Maybe you should call all our foreign players "woolyback cunts" and tell them to fuck off and play football in their own countries? Oh, but then that's different isn't it. Cant have it both ways mate.

[Captain]

I have feeling Durango was taking the piss, but in general you have a point.

 

God forbid should I ever have to bring postcodes into it!

[Sugar Ape]

 

Nice. I can see with supporters like you the future of the club is in great hands. As it happens, my father was born and raised in Liverpool and went to matches as far back as the 1950s. He took me to my first games when I was a kid (Paisley was in charge back then) and now I take my son to the games. So that's 3 generations of my family that have been Liverpool supporters...not that I should have to justify it just because of my postcode. If you ever have to move out of the city because of your job or whatever, are you going to stop supporting Liverpool?

 

Maybe you should call all our foreign players "woolyback cunts" and tell them to fuck off and play football in their own countries? Oh, but then that's different isn't it. Cant have it both ways mate.

 

Don't worry about Durango mate, he's probably forgot to take his alzheimer's medication again.

 

In his head Margaret thatcher has just been named prime Minster, forest have won the European cup and Cliff Richards is top of the charts with we don't talk anymore.

[Red Baron II]

Don't worry about Durango mate, he's probably forgot to take his alzheimer's medication again.

 

In his head Margaret thatcher has just been named prime Minster, forest have won the European cup and Cliff Richards is top of the charts with we don't talk anymore.

 

Yeah, I know, that's why I didn't respond with lots of stupid name calling. He's a red, so he's fine by me. We're all entitled to our opinions I guess. For what it's worth, I love the city and would love to live there, but life/fate/circumstances decided otherwise...

[Durango]

Nice.

 

Maybe you should call all our foreign players "woolyback cunts" and tell them to fuck off and play football in their own countries? Oh, but then that's different isn't it. Cant have it both ways mate.

 

Hahahaha,

 

listen kiddo,

 

I'm a sucker for a hard luck story,

 

but sorry,no purple bin,

 

ye not in,

 

sorry,them the rules!!

[Durango]

Don't worry about Durango mate, he's probably forgot to take his alzheimer's medication again.

 

In his head Margaret thatcher has just been named prime Minster, forest have won the European cup and Cliff Richards is top of the charts with we don't talk anymore.

 

 

And you went the bar!!!

[Red Baron II]

Hahahaha,

 

listen kiddo,

 

I'm a sucker for a hard luck story,

 

but sorry,no purple bin,

 

ye not in,

 

sorry,them the rules!!

 

Haha, so Suarez is out then, and I guess by your rules you're gonna tell Kenny to do one as well. Even Gerrard lives outside purple bin land! Then there are the owners! Jeez, fuckin wools get everywhere eh?

 

Nah, seriously Durango, I find the idea of someone who can cheer on a team of wools from the stands, but not want any IN the stands, really funny!

 

Still, just for you, I am going to spend the rest of the weekend painting me bin purple!

[RoboRiise]

(Deleted)

 

This little one's not worth the effort.

[Code]

You applied for the International fans spot, didn't you?

 

No not really as I could not give a fuck about this.

 

I usually travel alone or with one or two mates so nationality is not really an issue for me.

 

A fan is a fan, some might be whoppers while others are not.

[dave u]

Had this email from Andrew Moran, which he asked me to post on the forum. So here it is....

 

 

20/5/11

 

Dear fellow Reds,

 

I write this message to you as a one-off, and I have chosen your forum to submit this to, for reasons that should become apparent.

 

I found out yesterday, to my great surprise - shock even - that I had been selected to represent General Admission Anfield attendees on the first Liverpool Supporters Committee.

 

After recovering from that initial shock, I was then humbled by the fact that I had been chosen out of so many to do so - and I then felt greatly honoured.

 

I became a Liverpool Supporter because of Bill Shankly, his great early seventies side, with Keegan, Toshack, Hughes, etc, and because of the great support. I wanted to be a part of that.

 

Liverpool FC has been my pride and passion for nearly forty years. It would therefore be my great privilege to represent a section of our great support to the club, which I am currently a part of, whilst also being able to empathise with other sections and groups.

 

As my application states, I am a former trade union and Co-op member, who has had plenty of experience of committees and representing people, and views that were not necessarily my own. Democracy may demand that you advocate something that you yourself may disagree with. When you are on a committee or a delegate and that happens, it is called collective responsibility. You represent the majority view. The same can also be said of a board of directors. Co-op members may know that if you have been a part of such a Co-op, then you may well have also been a Company Director along with it.

 

In my early days, I turned around to more seasoned union members than I to ask how I had done at a meeting or on an issue. A stock phrase was used a couple of times: "You justified your presence." Great phrase; remember it.

 

I understand the democratic process and the need for accountability and open-ness, but also the need to be seen as such. It is in that vein therefore that I should update you on one fact about my application that was true when it was made, but is no longer so: I am no longer a member of Spirit of Shankly.

 

I joined SOS due to it being a Supporters Union, supporting fans, democratically and co-ops via credit unions, and it was encouraging the dream of ownership, whilst campaigning against Hicks and Gillette. Wonderful, I thought.

 

As a proponent of the democracy inherent in committee work, I was disturbed and ashamed to find that Spirit of Shankly officials do not appear to share this basic philosophy.

 

I was interested to hear that Spirit of Shankly was intending to go to the TUC rally in London, back in March 2011. I contacted them about it, as whilst I myself have been on TUC rallies, in both a personal and official capacity, I failed to see what this had to do with Liverpool Supporters, as a group. If they were just arranging transport for people who wanted to go, then as long as member funds were not being used in any significant way, I would not regard it as objectionable - perhaps even helpful.

 

Put it another way, I wanted to see if they could justify their presence. My old trade union nose was twitching over this, and I feared the worst.

 

I was right to be concerned. Not only was SOS going in an official capacity (even the draft minutes does not say that they were going to do that, hence why I asked) but in a letter from Fran Stanton, they claimed they were doing it for the community, and that the TUC was their umbrella body!

 

SOS subsequently failed to provide any direct link to anything clearly affecting Liverpool supporters. No single instance was provided as to how Government Cuts would specifically and definitely affect Liverpool Supporters, the club, or even Anfield, and how such would relate to Liverpool Supporters. They instead tried to throw out instances of regeneration possibly being affected, when we all know that the one big issue in Anfield in terms of regeneration is the stadium - and they could not demonstrate how Government cuts would clearly have any affect on that.

 

It was clear to me that they were just making excuses to enable them to go and shout at The Government under the banner of SOS. They were treating it like an affected Trade Union.

 

Do they pay TUC subs?

 

What has a Trade Union rally about Government cuts got to do with Liverpool supporters - or any group of football supporters? Make your case, was my point.

 

Don't get me wrong: they can go and shout at the Government - but in a personal capacity, not as SOS, that represents a group of people. Do they really know everyone's views, and if there was any kind of split, wouldn't they be wiser not to choose sides, but abstain from direct involvement, on an issue which is really a minor one, with regard to Liverpool Supporters, particularly world-wide, who would surely not see any relevance, unless such could be demonstrated, rather than assumed.

 

All the reasons they supplied were vague and unsubstantiated, including references to their own aims, which they claim gave them the remit to go, but, if you take the actual aims specifically and literally, I found that I could not agree with this 'view'. I felt it was all a contrivance.

 

Stanton also claimed that the transport was needed to, "...ensure that people have as many options as possible available if they wish to attend, many of the TUC provided travel is already fully booked, with many of the spaces being taken up by Union reps rather than actual members."

 

I find that very hard to believe, as at the time of that response, the Liverpool TUC were in the process of filling their sixth coach to go to the rally, and when I first raised the subject, they were only on two - so they were constantly adding coaches, and therefore at no time prior to that response from Fran Stanton, had they ever been fully booked.

 

The local TUC travel was also leaving later, and was the same price for some, and cheaper than others, than the transport SOS arranged. So it was unnecessary, and more expensive, and less convenient that the "official" transport. So why even bother? Why not just join the local TUC coaches?

 

Worst of all, in my eyes at least, was the outrageous attempt by Fran Stanton, and the committee, but particularly by Roy Bentham, who all claimed that there had been a two-way discussion and/or vote on the issue.

 

In a letter to me, Fran Stanton stated: ""Spirit of Shankly is a Union and the umbrella body for unions is holding a demonstration that members put forward to us and agreed strongly at the AGM that we should support."

 

Untrue.

 

The agenda for the AGM is at http://www.spiritofshankly.com/documents/2011_agm_agenda.pdf

 

The voting results are at AGM Voting Results – Spirit Of Shankly – Liverpool Supporters' Union

 

You might then care to check the draft minutes at Minutes of AGM - 12th February 2001 – Spirit Of Shankly – Liverpool Supporters' Union

 

Down the bottom, under Any Other Business;

 

"It was suggested that as part of the Union’s Community remit consideration should be give to organising transport to the TUC National Demonstration on the 26th March 2011."

 

Check YouTube at YouTube - ‪Spirit of Shankly AGM 2011 Part 5‬‏ at 11.30 minutes in. This would confirm that the draft minutes are accurate - and that there was no vote, nor any two-way discussion, as the SOS Chairman claims. It is merely spoken about for around 90 seconds by two committee members.

 

Stanton was not the only one to make false claims.

 

Check Anti-cuts march: the protesters | World news | The Guardian and look down to football supporters, you will see that Roy Bentham, the SOS Committee member for transport, states:

 

"There was a vote and our membership decided we should support the TUC and the march, that we should do our bit to oppose what is going on, so we are setting off at 4.30am and hope to be in London by about 10am."

 

Not only does he say there was a vote, when there wasn't, but Roy Bentham manages to tell us not only what the result of this non-existent vote was, but what supporters told SOS to do about it!

 

Again, check the YouTube video. Did that happen? Any of it?

 

Spirit of Shankly were so determined to attend this rally, as Spirit of Shankly, that they forgot what Spirit of Shankly is supposed to be about.

 

Spirit of Shankly have failed to acknowledge the statements as being in any way false or misleading. They are well aware of them and have failed to retract or correct them - and that was two months ago.

 

Whilst they were so determined to go and represent the "community", when their aims DO NOT make them a community representative, but supposed representatives of member Liverpool supporters, regardless of creed, colour, sex or location, they seem to be far more concerned about the area of Anfield, than Liverpool supporters, and things that actually happen and affect them - such as the earthquake and tsunami in Japan.

 

Spirit of Shankly fobbed off the idea of producing a banner for the games where there was a respectful silence, for a natural disaster that has actually affected our support in the country, whilst at the same time going all out to wave their banner at the rally in London, for vaguer reasons. That seems incongruous to me, at the very least.

 

Now we have this season ticket loan, where Spirit of Shankly people constantly contradict the Partners web site, the application form, and even their own web site, with how they say it works, and how the SOS Share Scheme is connected to it. Graham Smith even denied that they were linked at all - but clearly you have to save for a share in an SOS share in a takeover, to be eligible for the loan.

 

In forcing members to save for a loan (with an account that offers no dividend and may incur a fee), it is surely easier for people to just get a loan from their own credit union account and based on their own savings, without bothering with the SOS scheme at all.

 

The scheme is designed to get people to save for an SOS Share, as well as save for a season ticket, but has been created with no apparent thought for the saver. Who is going to take out a loan for about £800 for a season ticket, that also commits you to eventually saving up another £500 for something else? It's crazy!

 

This is why SOS are trying to tell people that you can use the SOS Share funds for anything, when Partners have been more circumspect, pointing out that you either use it for a share, or for emergencies.

 

It is not a case where they can both be right. Either Graham and SOS is wrong or the Partners web site is wrong. Either you can use the money in the share scheme, as Graham and SOS claims, for "anything", or you can use it as Partners says, for the share scheme, or for "emergencies".

 

I believe that once you start saving with this SOS Share Scheme, you will not find it as easy as Graham and SOS would have you believe in order to access these funds - and once done, you will be stuck with it. You should have read the small print.

 

In view of their recent track record for truthful and accurate statements, frankly, I don't believe him, nor SOS, on this.

 

As far as I am concerned, Spirit of Shankly has completely lost the credibility that it had. They are not acting in the best interests of Liverpool Supporters, but seem to be more intent on creating a power-base for an organisation whose funds will ultimately be used for schemes for things not necessarily in the immediate vicinity of the ground, which may, or may not have anything to do with the club, but will have even less to do with supporters, particularly those who come from further afield, and for purposes that will gradually and increasingly have little to do with Supporters, but increasingly more to do with a vaguely defined part of "Anfield".

 

It is for all these reasons and suspicions that am I no longer a member of Spirit of Shankly. I cannot condone or accept their behaviour, nor the manner in which they make their decisions, particularly whilst it is supposedly a democratically run union with Trade Union and/Co-operative principles.

 

Unless there are significant changes within the organisation, I will not be party to it, nor will I advocate its membership to anyone. Quite the reverse.

 

Some of these people that I have mentioned may be responsible for starting what could be a wonderful institution, if they let it. For now, however, I believe that they are wrecking it from the inside out, and perhaps some of them should leave it, before they take it down around them, and instead be remembered for what they started, as opposed to where they are currently taking it.

 

I have reported SOS, and Partners, to the Financial Services Authority, in order for them to sort out what the actuality of the matter is over the Season Ticket Loan. How SOS is advertising this loan is clearly contrary to what Partners says. How can confusion be of any use, no matter who is right - but I suspect SOS are so intent on raising funds and getting money into their coffers, that they are not currently capable of regaining sight of their primary aim, which is to act in the best interests of Liverpool Supporters.

 

This has all occurred prior to today's announcement, and my finding out yesterday about my committee application.

 

I trust therefore that you will see that my heart and interests are as yours - as Liverpool Supporters. I will not support someone or something merely because of what it is or who it is, but because I would regard it as the right thing to do. I will stand-up for what I believe in.

 

I will look at the details of things that others are inclined to overlook. The devil is in the detail. I know that from experience. I could smell that something was not right about SOS going to this rally, and what followed flowed from there.

 

I hold the great traditions and values of this club very dear, and I will not be part of anything that could or would bring shame on our club - and especially our great former manager, who is one of the reasons that I became a Liverpool Supporter; as is "The Liverpool Way".

 

I now look forward to being able to make a positive contribution to the football club that I love, even if that is difficult to measure - such as preventing things that could happen instead - as I am sure will be the case for the other seventeen members of the committee.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Andrew J Moran

[Guest ShoePiss]

I'll be really interested to read an SOS response to Andrew Moran's letter.

[lifetime fan]

Ouch.

[Code]

Great letter that.

[Monster Masch]

Hear hear.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

Graham Smith and SoS in lying sacks of shit shocker.

[Anubis]

*Breaks out the popcorn*

[lifetime fan]

*Breaks out the popcorn*

 

*Gets another beer and puts off going to bed just yet.*

[Anubis]

Looking at the documentation on the SoS website (the web page and the application form) regarding the Credit Union, I think the accusation that by saving in the Credit Union you are saving for a share in the club is wrong. I think it's badly worded but refers to two types of shares, which people are confusing.

 

The first is a share in the Credit Union, which you get by opening an account, and which makes you eligible for a dividend if the Union has surplus funds at the end of the financial year.

 

That in turn allows you to open an SOS account (a sub-account if you will) specifically to save for a share in potential fan-ownership, and to apply for a season ticket loan.

[Pidge]

Well said Mr Moran.

 

Edit: SM, how does that compare to Partners' description though? Mr Moran's complaint is regarding a disparity between the two.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Looking at the documentation on the SoS website (the web page and the application form) regarding the Credit Union, I think the accusation that by saving in the Credit Union you are saving for a share in the club is wrong. I think it's badly worded but refers to two types of shares, which people are confusing.

 

The first is a share in the Credit Union, which you get by opening an account, and which makes you eligible for a dividend if the Union has surplus funds at the end of the financial year.

 

That in turn allows you to open an SOS account (a sub-account if you will) specifically to save for a share in potential fan-ownership, and to apply for a season ticket loan.

 

That's been my understanding too. I'm interested in a response to to the vote on arranging coaches for the TUC rally though.

 

*puts on dennistooth hat for a minute* I think the club would love SOS to disappear, I think there's actually been a covert PR campaign by them to discredit the union.

 

The way they reacted to the letter sent before Christmas sowed that seed in my tiny mind and there's been a few other things that have reinforced my belief.