The Police vs The Tories

[WaltonRed]

What does everyone think of this ongoing fued between The Police and The Tories.

 

The Police claiming its pay back from the Tories for not getting the pay restructure they wanted in 93.

 

They even rolled out David Rathband on Webcam to ask Theresa May 'I made £33k last year, am I not worth it?'

[Guest TK-421]

That Rathband character is growing very tiresome.

 

So he got shot, he should deal with it. It's what he signed up for.

[Section_31]

I've known a few coppers and I've never met one (at least a young one) who didn't absolutely love their job. It's a career at the end of the day, reasonably secure and well paid with an excellent pension - we should all be so lucky. It was the same with the firefighters a few years ago demanding 35k a year each, they use the argument that it's a tough job - which it is - but they love it, so that argument loses some of its gusto. They're not conscripted, for many of them it's a lifelong dream - I don't see why I should have to feel overly grateful to them for doing it. (Don't get me started on nurses here either, 'they're angels!' goes the cry of the pensioner. Not in my experience they're not, they're generally colder than Heinrich Himmler, they're certainly not doing it for charity.)

 

Much like with teachers' pay and conditions though, it will be world war three if anyone ever tries to take any of that away.

 

One thing I've never been keen on with the public sector, I don't know if it works like this with the police but it does with teachers, is that their wages go up every year regardless of performance. My teacher mates see their wages rise around 2k a year, no matter what. What's that all about? They also have add-ons coming out of their arse. 'Media leader' means you have to sit through a DVD with the kids once a month and you get an extra grand for that, healthy eating programme tutor means you print off a few sheets of pictures of fat kids and dole them out at lunch time - another few hundred quid a year for that.

 

I deffo picked the wrong job.

[Cardie]

Sting's right to be pissed.

[Fowlers God]

I agree with what Section is saying.

 

I fail to see how anybody can strike over the pay that they are receiving when that was outlined in their initial contract. When I took my current job I knew the rate of pay that I would be receiving and cannot argue about it 4 months down the line.

 

If I was to be getting a wage reduction however that is something different.

 

You cannot complain about something you have already agreed to.

[Stu Monty]

I agree with what Section is saying.

 

I fail to see how anybody can strike over the pay that they are receiving when that was outlined in their initial contract. When I took my current job I knew the rate of pay that I would be receiving and cannot argue about it 4 months down the line.

 

If I was to be getting a wage reduction however that is something different.

 

You cannot complain about something you have already agreed to.

 

If you don't get a pay rise each year then you've pretty much certainly had a pay decrease in relative terms, due to inflation.

 

I'm not going to have the brass balls to have a pop at someone demanding to be paid more when they mop up piss and run into burning buildings, things that I can't be arsed to do, when there are people raking it in for doing fuck all constructive, and not paying tax.

[Charles Penrose]

My force's 'rank and file' pay scale is as follows.

 

Constable

On Appointment

£23,259

 

After Initial Training (about four months when you first hit the streets)

£25,962

 

2 Years

£27,471

 

3 Years

£29,148

 

4 Years

£30,066

 

5 Years

£31,032

 

6 Years

£31,917

 

7 Years

£32,703

 

8 Years

£33,753

 

9 Years

£35,796

 

10 Years

£36,519

 

At ten years you are currently entitled to a competency based threshold payment, signed off by your supervisor as being deserving. In reality you'd have to be quite clearly awful on a consistent basis to be denied it. Those above are merely Constable pay scales, i'd crash the forum if I placed every rank on it.

 

If push comes to shove and they freeze pay increases for those of us with a reasonable amount of time in (i've just hit eight years) then so be it. I could live at near £34k quite comfortably for a few years. The people I feel sorry for are going to be those with families that took a significant pay decrease to join the job. I bloke I joined with left a senior management position at Autoglass and was on £47k per year. He took a dip down to our then starting wage of £18,666 back in 2003. It would have been massively unfair to him to have believed he could weather the storm of his high mortgage with the promise of pay increases to lessen his burden. Unless he hits the dizzy heights of inspector I wouldn't expect him to ever find parity with his previous wage.

 

The Government are being cunts here. I've no problem with some of the proposals if I'm honest; one of them being the scrapping of a final salary pension scheme. I've never thought it right that you could do twenty six years as a Constable followed by four years as a Sergeant and then finish on a full Sergeants pension. I'd steadfastly back any moves to provide people with a mean average pension based upon their entire service.

 

What I am unhappy with is the suggestion that we pay more into a pension for longer, and then end up with less at the end of it. I don't have the exact figures, but to my knowledge I already pay more percentage wise into my pension that any other Public Service or Public Sector worker. Feel free to correct me here but I certainly pay more than those in the NHS, the Fire Service or Teachers. I'm on the 30 year pension scheme (at present), with some younger in service on a 35 year scheme. I'll be fucking gutted if they end up shifting the goalposts and I don't get to retire with my gold clock at fifty. I'm sure your hearts will bleed for me.

 

Similarly, the moves to fuck about with our overtime allowance is bang out of order. At present I get time and a third for regular overtime (hours worked over at the end of a scheduled shift) Deducted from that is what's referred to as 'half hour for the Queen', effectively working for free for the first half hour I'm kept on following a scheduled shift. I probably do five hours a month unpaid, give or take a bit.

 

These may not be exact but are pretty close, but we get double time for cancelled days off with less than five days notice, and time and a half for cancelled days off between five and fifteen days notice. Outside of those periods of notice we are just owed a day back with no payment made. The only overtime 'perk' as such is that when we work an hour and fifteen minutes over on our last day on duty then we are given four hours at double time, effectively eight hours pay for working a minimum of 75 minutes. It's commonly less than two hours, and rarely over three. We are also entitled to this when we get a 'recall to duty', for example arresting someone whilst off duty. In reality though, this singular overtime perk is exercised once or twice per year per officer in cases of working into a day off, and is incredibly rare on a recall to duty. I have never claimed for a recall to duty and the common example the Daily Mail like to use about taking a phone call at home and then claiming is complete bollocks.

 

The reason the recall to duty rule is there, though, is to prevent people taking the fucking piss. Why the fuck should I be called at home on a day off and asked to come in and interview someone as there is no-one less and then simply get time back? The reason that was written into our contracts is to act as a safeguard, a firewall. That high rate of overtime pay on a recall is the exact reason it is so rare. What you'll end up with if that is scrapped is Officer's simply not answering withheld number calls as they know it'll be better to ignore it than answer it. And Nick Robinson can suck my balls for claiming we get double time on a Sunday, because we never have and never will.

 

We are going to be right in the shit when we find ourselves with less Officers, greater discontent amongst the Public about all the other shit going in and the subsequently inevitable increase in crime. We've already had the student protests (riots). What, or who, will follow?

 

What we've needed for a long time is spend our money on Police Officers, not back room staff tucked away in quaint little Offices with a £8000 water feature believed to promote a sense of wellbeing. We can certainly make savings but this country needs to decide what Police Service they want and what Police Service they are willing to pay for. If our remit is continually widened each and every time something goes tits up we'll be stretched even further beyond breaking point.

 

Last week I spend fourteen hours babysitting mental health patients waiting for NHS staff (psychiatric teams) to turn up assess them (how is that right?) and three and a half hours sat with a thirteen year old runaway who Social Services told me they didn't have a bed for. I wasn't out arresting murderers and rapists as I'm often told I should be doing my members of the Public.

 

Over the past two years I've been to Spain, the USA, France and Germany and spoken with serving Officers there. Their jaws drop when I tell them the scope of the shit we deal with over here whilst other agencies back up sheepishly out of sight. And for that I think I we deserve to have pay and conditions which in some way reflect the unique nature of the role.

 

I'm probably going to regret making this into a 'look how bad we have it' thread, as it's been done enough times. Despite the shit, I'm happy that I'm gainfully employed in a secure job with a relatively secure future.

[Fowlers God]

A good post and an insight into what you do, but why should I not have a pay rise? I have not had one in 2.5 years and know openly that the person that does exactl the same job as me and less influence over how the department is run gets 12 k a year more than me?

Over the last 12 months I have worked on average 2.5 hours of unpaid work every week, with my two 15 min breaks not taken as it is two busy.

Numerous times I have had to work on scheduled days off and got no extra for it.

But it (just about) pays my bills and I haves job that is secure.

[Sugar Ape]

A good post and an insight into what you do, but why should I not have a pay rise? I have not had one in 2.5 years and know openly that the person that does exactl the same job as me and less influence over how the department is run gets 12 k a year more than me?

Over the last 12 months I have worked on average 2.5 hours of unpaid work every week, with my two 15 min breaks not taken as it is two busy.

Numerous times I have had to work on scheduled days off and got no extra for it.

But it (just about) pays my bills and I haves job that is secure.

 

I see what you are saying mate, but it's like this report that has come out on railway pay saying it isn't right that train drivers earn a lot more than nurses so they should get a pay decrease. How about raising the money nurses get so they are closer to train drivers in pay rather than decrease train drivers pay so they are closer to nurses?

[Thomo123]

My force's 'rank and file' pay scale is as follows.

 

Constable

On Appointment

£23,259

 

After Initial Training (about four months when you first hit the streets)

£25,962

 

2 Years

£27,471

 

3 Years

£29,148

 

4 Years

£30,066

 

5 Years

£31,032

 

6 Years

£31,917

 

7 Years

£32,703

 

8 Years

£33,753

 

9 Years

£35,796

 

10 Years

£36,519

 

At ten years you are currently entitled to a competency based threshold payment, signed off by your supervisor as being deserving. In reality you'd have to be quite clearly awful on a consistent basis to be denied it. Those above are merely Constable pay scales, i'd crash the forum if I placed every rank on it.

 

If push comes to shove and they freeze pay increases for those of us with a reasonable amount of time in (i've just hit eight years) then so be it. I could live at near £34k quite comfortably for a few years. The people I feel sorry for are going to be those with families that took a significant pay decrease to join the job. I bloke I joined with left a senior management position at Autoglass and was on £47k per year. He took a dip down to our then starting wage of £18,666 back in 2003. It would have been massively unfair to him to have believed he could weather the storm of his high mortgage with the promise of pay increases to lessen his burden. Unless he hits the dizzy heights of inspector I wouldn't expect him to ever find parity with his previous wage.

 

The Government are being cunts here. I've no problem with some of the proposals if I'm honest; one of them being the scrapping of a final salary pension scheme. I've never thought it right that you could do twenty six years as a Constable followed by four years as a Sergeant and then finish on a full Sergeants pension. I'd steadfastly back any moves to provide people with a mean average pension based upon their entire service.

 

What I am unhappy with is the suggestion that we pay more into a pension for longer, and then end up with less at the end of it. I don't have the exact figures, but to my knowledge I already pay more percentage wise into my pension that any other Public Service or Public Sector worker. Feel free to correct me here but I certainly pay more than those in the NHS, the Fire Service or Teachers. I'm on the 30 year pension scheme (at present), with some younger in service on a 35 year scheme. I'll be fucking gutted if they end up shifting the goalposts and I don't get to retire with my gold clock at fifty. I'm sure your hearts will bleed for me.

 

Similarly, the moves to fuck about with our overtime allowance is bang out of order. At present I get time and a third for regular overtime (hours worked over at the end of a scheduled shift) Deducted from that is what's referred to as 'half hour for the Queen', effectively working for free for the first half hour I'm kept on following a scheduled shift. I probably do five hours a month unpaid, give or take a bit.

 

These may not be exact but are pretty close, but we get double time for cancelled days off with less than five days notice, and time and a half for cancelled days off between five and fifteen days notice. Outside of those periods of notice we are just owed a day back with no payment made. The only overtime 'perk' as such is that when we work an hour and fifteen minutes over on our last day on duty then we are given four hours at double time, effectively eight hours pay for working a minimum of 75 minutes. It's commonly less than two hours, and rarely over three. We are also entitled to this when we get a 'recall to duty', for example arresting someone whilst off duty. In reality though, this singular overtime perk is exercised once or twice per year per officer in cases of working into a day off, and is incredibly rare on a recall to duty. I have never claimed for a recall to duty and the common example the Daily Mail like to use about taking a phone call at home and then claiming is complete bollocks.

 

The reason the recall to duty rule is there, though, is to prevent people taking the fucking piss. Why the fuck should I be called at home on a day off and asked to come in and interview someone as there is no-one less and then simply get time back? The reason that was written into our contracts is to act as a safeguard, a firewall. That high rate of overtime pay on a recall is the exact reason it is so rare. What you'll end up with if that is scrapped is Officer's simply not answering withheld number calls as they know it'll be better to ignore it than answer it. And Nick Robinson can suck my balls for claiming we get double time on a Sunday, because we never have and never will.

 

We are going to be right in the shit when we find ourselves with less Officers, greater discontent amongst the Public about all the other shit going in and the subsequently inevitable increase in crime. We've already had the student protests (riots). What, or who, will follow?

 

What we've needed for a long time is spend our money on Police Officers, not back room staff tucked away in quaint little Offices with a £8000 water feature believed to promote a sense of wellbeing. We can certainly make savings but this country needs to decide what Police Service they want and what Police Service they are willing to pay for. If our remit is continually widened each and every time something goes tits up we'll be stretched even further beyond breaking point.

 

Last week I spend fourteen hours babysitting mental health patients waiting for NHS staff (psychiatric teams) to turn up assess them (how is that right?) and three and a half hours sat with a thirteen year old runaway who Social Services told me they didn't have a bed for. I wasn't out arresting murderers and rapists as I'm often told I should be doing my members of the Public.

 

Over the past two years I've been to Spain, the USA, France and Germany and spoken with serving Officers there. Their jaws drop when I tell them the scope of the shit we deal with over here whilst other agencies back up sheepishly out of sight. And for that I think I we deserve to have pay and conditions which in some way reflect the unique nature of the role.

 

I'm probably going to regret making this into a 'look how bad we have it' thread, as it's been done enough times. Despite the shit, I'm happy that I'm gainfully employed in a secure job with a relatively secure future.

 

Sorry mate i still dont feel much sympathy. I know plenty of people of work as many hours, zero overtime, shite pension and no payrises for the last 3 yrs due to the 'recession'. Its a fact of life, Police officers like the rest of us should fucking deal with it.

[Sugar Ape]

Sorry mate i still dont feel much sympathy. I know plenty of people of work as many hours, zero overtime, shite pension and no payrises for the last 3 yrs due to the 'recession'. Its a fact of life, Police officers like the rest of us should fucking deal with it.

 

I just don't get that attitude mate, because a lot of ( mainly private sector ) businesses have fucked staff over with pay and overtime etc... then the same should happen to public sector staff?

 

Everyone deserves a payrise and to be paid fairly for overtime, fucking the pay and conditions of the public sector isn't going to help anyone; it is just going to affect morale of staff who provide vital services to the country.

[jonnybastard]

To be fair there are times when I think that a policeman's lot must be bit shitty sometimes. Then I remember beanfield, orgreave, hillsborough etc. and think 'tough shit you cunts'.

[Charles Penrose]

Seriously, why do you feel the need to wade in with a pointless response in what will hopefully turn out to be an interesting topic?

 

This thread has nothing to do with miners, new age travellers or Football Supporters. Can we actually keep it that way?

 

For the record, I was no older than six during any of the incidents you mentioned. And neither did I bitch slap the Birmingham six.

[lifetime fan]

The 'bobbies' do a decent job on the whole and should be rewarded appropriately.

 

What isn't on is what happened with my uncle.

 

He was a sergeant in the West Midlands Police, he was no longer working front line and was doing some radio communications testing/work. As he had his years service in he retired on the Friday with final salary pension and started the same job on the following Monday in civvies on virtually the same salary.

[Section_31]

The 'bobbies' do a decent job on the whole and should be rewarded appropriately.

 

What isn't on is what happened with my uncle.

 

He was a sergeant in the West Midlands Police, he was no longer working front line and was doing some radio communications testing/work. As he had his years service in he retired on the Friday with final salary pension and started the same job on the following Monday in civvies on virtually the same salary.

 

Same happened with my mate's dad, and the dad of some bird I know. My mate's dad was transport police though, imagine spending 30 years patrolling Lime Street Station with a yearly secondment to the London tube during the Notting Hill Carnival? If anyone deserved some wedge, it was that poor bastard.

[jonnybastard]

Seriously, why do you feel the need to wade in with a pointless response in what will hopefully turn out to be an interesting topic?

 

This thread has nothing to do with miners, new age travellers or Football Supporters. Can we actually keep it that way?

 

For the record, I was no older than six during any of the incidents you mentioned. And neither did I bitch slap the Birmingham six.

 

They were examples of incidents witnessed by the generation who lost faith in the police. If you look beyond the 'another cunt slagging the police' attitude, you would see why most people do not care that the masters are now castrating their attack dogs.

[Anny Road]

Every police officer I have ever encountered has been a thoroughly professional and honest bloke. That said I have never waved a placard or given them any grief.

 

36 grand a year top line is fuck all. I don't earn it and I do 60 odd hours week. But I spend my time looking after my interests and building up my assets, not getting puked on by inbreds.

 

Any decent society needs police and ours are a decent bunch. Go live in Brazil or some other shithole and argue with a copper there.

[Strontium]

I deffo picked the wrong job.

 

 

My salary went up by about 40% when I left journalism to enter the civil service. For going from a job where I was expected to wrote 1500 words of copy a day, to one where I have to click a button.

[lifetime fan]

My salary went up by about 40% when I left journalism to enter the civil service. For going from a job where I was expected to wrote 1500 words of copy a day, to one where I have to click a button.

 

That's why you were on shite money Stronts.

[Strontium]

Well, I'm out of practice. I am a fucking master at clicking a mouse button though.

[Anny Road]

My salary went up by about 40% when I left journalism to enter the civil service. For going from a job where I was expected to wrote 1500 words of copy a day, to one where I have to click a button.

 

Me of limited grammar hate to point this out but I am sure this was the right move.

[lifetime fan]

Well, I'm out of practice. I am a fucking master at clicking a mouse button though.

 

Can't say I think the CRB will be impressed at you looking at that amount of doggie porn.

[Teflon Don]

Can't say I think the CRB will be impressed at you looking at that amount of doggie porn.

 

That might be classed as 'research', though. #noncesense