Tory Country

[dennis tooth]

Fair play. Am off, laters

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Apologies SD, I neglected to add, "The UK" as I had in the previous reply.

 

They didn't 'cause' the recession in the UK. Massive drops in tax receipt and rise in unemployment and associated benefits are what caused the recession and massive drops in tax intake from the financial sector is why the deficit is so bad.

 

Could Labour have crystal balled the shit out of it... yes, technically.

[Guest San Don]

Apologies SD, I neglected to add, "The UK" as I had in the previous reply.

 

And given this thread is about the UK....anyway.

 

I am fully aware it was a worldwide, if not partial worldwide recession, allbeit mainly the first world countries that were affected.

The point being, the government of this country, be it through neglect failure or whatever you wish to call it, could have, given its power, done more to either stop it hitting as it did, or indeed lowered the effect of the "WW recession" on this country, through its governance of the banking houses under its control.

 

The fact that the banks were able to continue as they did, is as much a hit at their power, as it is at the power the government failed to wield when it could have.

 

So by rights, the people who could have helped avoid it, (be it in a better way than it was) are the very same who allowed it.

 

Do not take me digging at the last government as an anti Labour dig, I would say the same regardless who was in, in this case it happened to be them.

 

I appreciate you're talking about the UK. But, the fact the recession was on a global scale means imo, it was not something the Government of the day could do much about.

 

The Thatcher Government tried to take on the markets one time and got its arsed handed to it on a plate, several times over.

 

The point is, you cannot have a free market economy then say the Government neglected, didnt do enough etc, etc. In any event, due to global financial markets, it isnt possible for one Government to take on and regulate it.

 

Even the American Government could do nothing to stop the recession. Where the American Government has succeeded is, in making the banks who needed to be bailed out, pay back the money they borrowed.

 

It will take years for all or most of the money to be repaid though.

[MOGLET]

They didn't 'cause' the recession in the UK. Massive drops in tax receipt and rise in unemployment and associated benefits are what caused the recession and massive drops in tax intake from the financial sector is why the deficit is so bad.

 

Could Labour have crystal balled the shit out of it... yes, technically.

 

 

So what in your wise opinion caused the rise in unemployment and the massive rise in the associated benefits?

 

I assume you do not consider the mass immigration which they "allowed" nay, encouraged, as anything close to contributing to this situation?

 

Off to bed, but wish to continue this tomorrow, as I do like arguing.

 

 

 

Apologies, debating.

 

You arent as much fun as RiS though.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

We'll be getting our monies back too, San Don.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

So what in your wise opinion caused the rise in unemployment and the massive rise in the associated benefits?

 

The impact of the global financial crisis and events that are connected to it.

 

I assume you do not consider the mass immigration which they "allowed" nay, encouraged, as anything close to contributing to this situation?

 

Oh, fuck, I see. Sorry, I missed it before. You're some sort of strange bigoted idiot. I don't know how I missed that. Anyway, no is the answer to your question.

[Son of L8]

Immigrants caused the recession, sure. Everyone knows that. But what about the impact on house prices!?!!? Has anyone considered that!?

[Strontium]

I assume you do not consider the mass immigration which they "allowed" nay, encouraged, as anything close to contributing to this situation?

 

 

If anything, it's the opposite. Immigrants are net contributors to the economy.

[TheBitch]

I wonder if Section saw his thread going this way?

[Malarkey]

It's ok. Labour will be back soon. The country will go to shit soon enough. New, New Labour.

[sparta7]

I just been to vote on my way in, and on the local parish council elections there were something like 7 tories, 2 libdems and an independent. I just spoiled that paper.

[RedinSweden]

So what in your wise opinion caused the rise in unemployment and the massive rise in the associated benefits?

 

I assume you do not consider the mass immigration which they "allowed" nay, encouraged, as anything close to contributing to this situation?

 

Off to bed, but wish to continue this tomorrow, as I do like arguing.

 

 

 

Apologies, debating.

 

You arent as much fun as RiS though.

 

Sweden takes in a far higher percentage of immigrants than UK and was nowhere near as affected by the recession. You seem to be blaming the recession on mass unemployment. Unemployment is a symptom, not a cause.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Just out of morbid curiosity, who or what caused the last recession if it wasnt the last government? go on humour me.

 

Look over the pond at the Bush crew and that mortgage pyramid scheme they had.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Sweden takes in a far higher percentage of immigrants than UK and was nowhere near as affected by the recession. You seem to be blaming the recession on mass unemployment. Unemployment is a symptom, not a cause.

 

It has a spiralling effect. There's unemployment before a recession, due to the downturn, which then lowers tax income, then the recession hits and more are unemployed... and so on and so forth. It's both a symptom and a cause.

[Sugar Ape]

Apathy reigns in this country. Out of all my mates and family I am virtually the only one who votes; one of my mates was moaning the other day 'cos he had his child tax credits cut, so I told him to go with his bird and vote on the 5th of May and send a message to ' the cunts in government ' he was moaning about. His reply? ' Can't be arsed '.

 

He is far from alone in thinking like this. Even in my work ( a government department where everyone is under the threat of losing their job ) out of my team of 10 people only me and one other person are voting today.

 

There are also a LARGE amount of idiots who treat everything they read in the right wing press as gospel, especially ( as evidenced by Monglet in this thread ) the myth that immigrants are to blame for all our ills.

 

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.

Robert M. Hutchins

[Strontium]

I know it sounds opportunistic on referendum day, but I really do think our electoral system has a lot to answer for when it comes to political engagement in this country. Everything gets reduced to a simplistic binary level along tribal lines.

[VladimirIlyich]

SD,i agree that the voting system is archaic and needs changing but i dont believe the method of AV being offered is any better than what we've got now.

 

If a system thats well planned and offers a more modern take on things is put forward then i will vote for it but up to now it just hasnt happened.

 

It takes more than 12 months to come up with something decent.

[Section_31]

The people about my age, who I know who vote Tory; do so for purely selfish reasons. It's all about keeping what they've got, what others get or have.

 

It's usually the better off, real pull the ladder up shit.

 

As others have said though, I wonder how many people who vote Tory really do expect to see a day in their day to day life, and how many vote for them out of snobbery (same could be said for some Labour voters, reverse snobbery etc)

 

The cartoon version of the difference of Tory and Labour governments is that a Tory one taxes you less but gives you less state services and protection, but in reality do your friends end up with any more money in their pocket?

 

The Tories may drop corporation tax for big business, and they've changed the tax rules meaning if a firm has its HQ oversees it will have to pay less, so for my money it is the party of big business rather than the middle classes.

 

I think most people vote Tory because they think of Labour MPs as factory shop stewards from 'the north' who own wippets. Paul Daniels is probably your typical Tory voter.

[Ponz]

They didn't 'cause' the recession in the UK. Massive drops in tax receipt and rise in unemployment and associated benefits are what caused the recession and massive drops in tax intake from the financial sector is why the deficit is so bad.

 

That applies to the whole developed world. However,

we entered 2007/08 with the third largest structural deficit out of 28 OECD countries (behind only Hungary & Greece).

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

So? a 3% deficit really isn't anything to whine about. Especially considering we were playing a major role in two wars at the time.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Numero Veinticinco

[MOGLET]

Apathy reigns in this country. Out of all my mates and family I am virtually the only one who votes; one of my mates was moaning the other day 'cos he had his child tax credits cut, so I told him to go with his bird and vote on the 5th of May and send a message to ' the cunts in government ' he was moaning about. His reply? ' Can't be arsed '.

 

He is far from alone in thinking like this. Even in my work ( a government department where everyone is under the threat of losing their job ) out of my team of 10 people only me and one other person are voting today.

 

There are also a LARGE amount of idiots who treat everything they read in the right wing press as gospel, especially ( as evidenced by Monglet in this thread ) the myth that immigrants are to blame for all our ills.

 

 

 

Monglet? oh right, so because I dont follow your way of thinking you feel the need to start gobbing it off? ok then.

 

So then sugar pissface cunty bollocks Ape, because I happen to live in Kent, where the immigration numbers, be it legal immigrants or illegal asylum seeking immigrants far outway the general consensus and the numbers some of you may well produce to prove some non existent point, that means I believe the right wing gospel?

 

Sadly no, I am all for immigration, to a sensible degree, just as I am all for a mix in the community, being an actual scouser, I know all about the cultural mix and how it works.

Living here doesnt exclude me from reality sadly for you.

 

But then, how easy it is to take one line from a reply and make it sound like a whole force of one side of a debate eh?

 

Anyway, those of you who in your odd world do not think the immigration brought about by the last government has no effect on anything that has happened to this country in the last ten years, what fucking planet are you living on?

 

But then, im guessing you are going by the figures posted by the said governments, ie unemployment totals, population totals, crime rate rises, etc etc.

 

Do you all honestly believe they are actually accurate?

Do you all honestly believe they show the actual reality of the problems?

 

Do any of you actually work in a sector where you see the reality as opposed to the bollocks posted by the government of the time?

 

This is not a racist bigotted view of all blacks are rapists or whatever, this is a view from a county that has a real problem brought about by a complete lack of control on an immigration policy that was close to being out of hand and control before they allowed it to happen in the first place.

 

So monglet or not, until you live in this area, that is falling apart because of the last governments lack of anything close to government, you cannot start gobbing it off and quoting shite you know fuck all to nothing about.

 

An example for you, which im positive you wont find a "real, true and accurate" actual quota/list for, there is a road in this area, that up until about 18 months ago, was a working class, pretty stable as far as crime rate goes, area, thats one road mind you.

A main road from a large housing area that lead into the main heart of the general area of this part of Kent.

 

It now has the highest population of eastern european immigrant/asylum seekers by area, of any of the surrounding populations.

The crime rate has gone up by over 60%, with a sex crime increase of over 30%.

Over 73% of those living on this road, are on the dole, the rest are not on any register to know.

The local shops on this one stretch of road, have been turned from your normal single road type shops, ie florist(Now gone)/coop/newsagent/bookies(now gone)/funeral directors(now gone)estate agent(now gone)/video store(now gone)

Instead, there are 2 halal meat shops, 1 general store, run by the said EE folks, the rest are up for rent, why?

 

This road is less than a mile long, yet it is now a virtual Vilnius, and that to my mind is not cultural diversity, nor is it what most would consider the way ahead.

 

This is one road, of many, that are now no longer close to anything they were 18 months 5 years 10 years ago.

Yes things change, and yes, things move on, but fuck me, wake up people, not everything is just as simple as some of you are claiming it to be, nor is it anything like the Guardian/Dailyhate shite you all profess to dislike with a vengeance.

Not everyone who is sick of the way this country is going is a racist you know, just as not all black people are rapists.

 

But what would I know, im a monglet.

 

 

Feel free to have a debate about your opinion, but if you cant debate and can only gob it off by calling names, then who is the one who is thick?

 

Debate is what it is, two different opinions making a point, calling somebody a mong is proof that you cannot debate your side of an argument, which in fact, makes you the mong.

 

Got that monkey fuckface?

 

 

RiS is still better at this than the majority of you :)

[Sugar Ape]

 

Monglet? oh right, so because I dont follow your way of thinking you feel the need to start gobbing it off? ok then.

 

So then sugar pissface cunty bollocks Ape, because I happen to live in Kent, where the immigration numbers, be it legal immigrants or illegal asylum seeking immigrants far outway the general consensus and the numbers some of you may well produce to prove some non existent point, that means I believe the right wing gospel?

 

Sadly no, I am all for immigration, to a sensible degree, just as I am all for a mix in the community, being an actual scouser, I know all about the cultural mix and how it works.

Living here doesnt exclude me from reality sadly for you.

 

But then, how easy it is to take one line from a reply and make it sound like a whole force of one side of a debate eh?

 

Anyway, those of you who in your odd world do not think the immigration brought about by the last government has no effect on anything that has happened to this country in the last ten years, what fucking planet are you living on?

 

But then, im guessing you are going by the figures posted by the said governments, ie unemployment totals, population totals, crime rate rises, etc etc.

 

Do you all honestly believe they are actually accurate?

Do you all honestly believe they show the actual reality of the problems?

 

Do any of you actually work in a sector where you see the reality as opposed to the bollocks posted by the government of the time?

 

This is not a racist bigotted view of all blacks are rapists or whatever, this is a view from a county that has a real problem brought about by a complete lack of control on an immigration policy that was close to being out of hand and control before they allowed it to happen in the first place.

 

So monglet or not, until you live in this area, that is falling apart because of the last governments lack of anything close to government, you cannot start gobbing it off and quoting shite you know fuck all to nothing about.

 

An example for you, which im positive you wont find a "real, true and accurate" actual quota/list for, there is a road in this area, that up until about 18 months ago, was a working class, pretty stable as far as crime rate goes, area, thats one road mind you.

A main road from a large housing area that lead into the main heart of the general area of this part of Kent.

 

It now has the highest population of eastern european immigrant/asylum seekers by area, of any of the surrounding populations.

The crime rate has gone up by over 60%, with a sex crime increase of over 30%.

Over 73% of those living on this road, are on the dole, the rest are not on any register to know.

The local shops on this one stretch of road, have been turned from your normal single road type shops, ie florist(Now gone)/coop/newsagent/bookies(now gone)/funeral directors(now gone)estate agent(now gone)/video store(now gone)

Instead, there are 2 halal meat shops, 1 general store, run by the said EE folks, the rest are up for rent, why?

 

This road is less than a mile long, yet it is now a virtual Vilnius, and that to my mind is not cultural diversity, nor is it what most would consider the way ahead.

 

This is one road, of many, that are now no longer close to anything they were 18 months 5 years 10 years ago.

Yes things change, and yes, things move on, but fuck me, wake up people, not everything is just as simple as some of you are claiming it to be, nor is it anything like the Guardian/Dailyhate shite you all profess to dislike with a vengeance.

Not everyone who is sick of the way this country is going is a racist you know, just as not all black people are rapists.

 

But what would I know, im a monglet.

 

Feel free to have a debate about your opinion, but if you cant debate and can only gob it off by calling names, then who is the one who is thick?

 

Debate is what it is, two different opinions making a point, calling somebody a mong is proof that you cannot debate your side of an argument, which in fact, makes you the mong.

 

Got that monkey fuckface?

 

RiS is still better at this than the majority of you :)

 

I'll be honest, I've got no intention of reading the no doubt massive amount of drivel you have just written.

 

I'll take it you just agreed that you are a Mong and a bigot? Cheers.

[MOGLET]

I'll be honest, I've got no intention of reading the no doubt massive amount of drivel you have just written.

 

I'll take it you just agreed that you are a Mong and a bigot? Cheers.

 

 

Case rested then.

[RedinSweden]

Doesn't look good when someone puts across their argument and they meet with a one line response calling them an idiot. I don't agree with moglets views on this, not that I doubt his experiences, but I think he is projecting them across the country as a whole.

 

They have fucked up the integration side of it big time in the UK. This is a poor example of immigration, but that doesn't mean immigration is wrong, just that it has been done cackhandedly in the UK. Sounds pretty shit where Moglet is to be fair and it leads to this sort of opinion. I don't mean to sound condescending but I have seen successful immigration here in Sweden, not perfect, but good nonetheless. In attempt to look like they were taking a hard line to appease the right wingers, the previous government made some serious errors.

 

This forum is for debating, if people can't put their views across without being abused, it will be a pretty shit forum, especially when they are laying out their argument for all to see. Like I said, I disagree with moglets take on all this, but I think he has been the one conducting himself properly. Save the abuse for those who deserve it. There are plenty.

[lifetime fan]

Doesn't look good when someone puts across their argument and they meet with a one line response calling them an idiot. I don't agree with moglets views on this, not that I doubt his experiences, but I think he is projecting them across the country as a whole.

 

They have fucked up the integration side of it big time in the UK. This is a poor example of immigration, but that doesn't mean immigration is wrong, just that it has been done cackhandedly in the UK. Sounds pretty shit where Moglet is to be fair and it leads to this sort of opinion. I don't mean to sound condescending but I have seen successful immigration here in Sweden, not perfect, but good nonetheless. In attempt to look like they were taking a hard line to appease the right wingers, the previous government made some serious errors.

 

This forum is for debating, if people can't put their views across without being abused, it will be a pretty shit forum, especially when they are laying out their argument for all to see. Like I said, I disagree with moglets take on all this, but I think he has been the one conducting himself properly. Save the abuse for those who deserve it. There are plenty.

 

 

Piss off Jim, go steal some more Swedish jobs you illegal immagrant.