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1 hour ago, Pete said:

Just to get back on track.  The orange shit gibbon is a complete shitstain on the pants of the US and I hope the annoying women with silly giggle and laugh crushes him into the dirt. 


While I hope she wins, I don’t believe there will be a crushing victory. 
 

I won’t mind being wrong on that though. 
 

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22 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

This is fucking brilliant, I don't know how to embed can someone do the honours?

 

 

https://x.com/tom_watson/status/1850969238418448751

To embed you just need to delete the x. from the part of the url after https:// and replace the x. with www.twitter. and this will ensure the Tweet is embedded. 
 

 

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3 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:


So, are you going to tell me what I was implying? You seem to be a tetchy about being accused of something that you haven’t been accused of. 
 

How do you know those holding the flag aren’t Jewish, and if they are, how do you know they are full on right wing? Are the black, Asian or Latino people in that audience right wing too? I thought only white people were right wing? It’s a bit slightly more nuanced over in the US compared to here and other countries. Being right wing and right leaning are two very different things. 

The march over here was very different to the one we are talking about.
 

People vote for an individual based on self interest on a wide range of things. Trump supports Israel, so there are going to be Jews who will vote for him solely on that basis alone. You picking out a picture and going with the word “they” where Jews are holding an Israeli flag is exactly that, a bit awkward. You (I’d like to think it’s not consciously intended) associate the Israel flag with being right wing over here and the US, again that’s awkward. I see it as the same as those on the opposite side using the support of Palestine as being anti-Semitic. It’s not as simple as labelling it as one thing or another. 

 

Surely you can understand that.
 

I wasn’t even being that serious by posting a GIF of Wayne Campbell. But let’s be honest some may see it differently, and you’ve certainly nailed your colours to the mast about how over it was a “scam” and those who raised potentially legitimate concerns about anti-semitism over here were wrong. I agree it was something that was used to weaponise, but not all of it was untrue. You have even aimed those accusations ant our very own Jew in heated debates and at times dismissed his fears of his and his families safety since Oct 7th last year. That again makes it look a tad awkward.
 

Do I believe that your anti-Semitic? (that’s what you appear to being paranoid about by saying “sorry to disappoint a couple of dickheads”) I can’t say 100% that I don’t think you are, because sometimes your words and attitudes towards the issue of Israel and Palestine can lean on the line when passions get heated. However that could be how I see people use the word Zionist. Overall, I reckon you’re about 98.99% none anti-Semitic. 
 

It seems to be a get out jail card, Zionists are still Jews, who have a belief just like you and me have our own beliefs. What Israel is doing, we fully 100% agree on, where we differentiate is the use of language when discussing that. I’m uneasy with labelling those driving that conflict as Zionist’s, as I believe the Israeli government aren’t Zionists, I believe they are tyrannical and are driven by greed and power and use the Zionist ideology as something to hide behind. 

You’ll be here all day waiting for me tell you what is ankward about it though, as I don’t know what ankward is, 


 

Quite a lot of shit to digest there. How do you know they were Jewish? What place does an Israeli flag had a trump rally or a “reclaim the UK” rally? 
 

Id hazard a wild guess it’s because they are blowing Muslims up and the right have accepted it as one of their flags to antagonise. I could of course be wrong but by having the word “they” scrutinised is a massive cop out for people who don’t want to wonder why that flag is being flown.
 

I appreciate not all Trump supporters will be right wing but a large portion of them are and just like the far right march in London, some are deciding to wave the flag of a country whose army is slaughtering thousands upon thousands of innocent people. Again, I wonder why. 
 

Oh and I’m far from tetchy. I just wish you’d got to your bullshit point sooner instead of thinking you’re setting some sort of trap. I’m 0% anti-Semitic. I will say fuck Israel because of what’s happening just the same as I’ve said fuck Hamas for what they do.  Does that make me anti-islamic? No. 
 

I have zero desire to see a Jewish person attacked either verbally or physically just for being Jewish. Far far from it. If some committing genocide happy to be Jewish do get attacked then so be it. 
 

You seem to be tetchy about criticism of genocide more than I’m tetchy about you trying to find anti-semitism in a post about a flag being waved at a rally. 
 

But, we don’t really see eye to eye so our opinions are gonna differ from time to time. 
 

 

I agree that I hope Harris wins though. Right side by side with you on that. We could adopt and live on a ranch. 

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4 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I’m uneasy with labelling those driving that conflict as Zionist’s, as I believe the Israeli government aren’t Zionists, I believe they are tyrannical and are driven by greed and power and use the Zionist ideology as something to hide behind. 
 

 

Some good points in here but this is difficult.

 

The fella (Netanyahu - hell Biden did as well) has called himself a Zionist. 

He even made the distinction "I am a proud Jewish Zionist."

Why , and more importantly how, would someone hide behind that label?

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2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

There's definitely polarised views but I've never seen a leader given as much leeway as Trump gets.

 

For example, if you were on the left and loved Corbyn, but then he took a consultancy job with Goldman Sachs, he'd lose all of his supporters.

 

If he operated under Trump rules, people would simply say something like "Well he's just being smart".

“I could shoot someone on fifth avenue and get away with it”. 

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45 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Some good points in here but this is difficult.

 

The fella (Netanyahu - hell Biden did as well) has called himself a Zionist. 

He even made the distinction "I am a proud Jewish Zionist."

Why , and more importantly how, would someone hide behind that label?


You can hide behind a label to garner support. To use a very simplistic analogy, I see it with “Scouse Solidarity” when you meet a fellow Scouser on holiday somewhere aboard and they are complete bellend but expect you “back them” because we are from the same city. Scousers telling me I should like Jamie Webster’s music because he’s “one of us, Scouse born and bred” I find his music to be boring and very samey to what’s gone before him and he shouts “Fuck the Tories”, why should I? He’s sound and all that but doesn’t mean I have to big him up or be listening to him everyday, it doesn’t make me any less Scouse or working class than him than some people in this city will claim. 
 

Ideologies are weaponised, look at the poppy over here. In some places the bee here if don’t wear a poppy you hate our veterans and war heroes and then all hell breaks loose. And this is weaponised by the right as being unpatriotic. The whole reasoning behind a poppy has been lost in the “culture wars” where it’s become a business model rather than what it’s truly about. Look at Brexit and the scars that has created. A lot of people will have voted that based on being fully informed and I can live with and respect that, but it was weaponised by those who won, who ended up as beneficiaries by preying on the fears of the nation.
 

I believe that’s what Netanyahu has done, weaponised an ideology to suit (he’s not the first) his agenda to commit the war crimes he has. Same with Putin, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Hussien, the Ayatollah in Iran and Gadaffi. All horrible cunts who the majority of, the west at some point all cosied up to when it suited and it was financially beneficial. 
 

To me, it’s all the same just with a different label, face or tactic.
 

I mean people still trot out the “Hitler was a socialist” bullshit when he did that exact thing, weaponised an idealogy by picking a party to infiltrate and change the idealogy of the German socialist party. And forever he will be incorrectly labelled a socialist. Another reason why I feel comparing Trump and Hitler as the same thing is way off. 
 

 

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34 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

 

I believe that’s what Netanyahu has done, weaponised an ideology to suit (he’s not the first) his agenda to commit the war crimes he has. Same with Putin, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Hussien, the Ayatollah in Iran and Gadaffi. All horrible cunts who the majority of, the west at some point all cosied up to when it suited and it was financially beneficial. 
 

To me, it’s all the same just with a different label, face or tactic.
 

I mean people still trot out the “Hitler was a socialist” bullshit when he did that exact thing, weaponised an idealogy by picking a party to infiltrate and change the idealogy of the German socialist party. And forever he will be incorrectly labelled a socialist. Another reason why I feel comparing Trump and Hitler as the same thing is way off. 
 

 

 

I don't think an example of a glaringly wrong use of a word makes your statement any more true tbh.

 

What is being done now is the definition of Zionism - so the word is absolutely correct being used there.

I get the point that labelling it as such - a widely used accepted term - maybe "sugarcoating" the events.

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The issue isn't that trump is a bit of a populist.

He is a deranged fascist lunatic who isn't even on nodding terms with reality.

A wise man once said on here once that if you can think of all the positive attributes a human can have,he Is the opposite of them all.

He also seems to have developed a pathological hatred of anyone who isn't white and American(particularly Puerto Ricans)and has virtually said he will turn America into a dictatorship if he wins.

The difference between that and a resurgence in right wing populism in France for example, is that America is one of the 2 super powers on the planet

 

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22 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

The issue isn't that trump is a bit of a populist.

He is a deranged fascist lunatic who isn't even on nodding terms with reality.

A wise man once said on here once that if you can think of all the positive attributes a human can have,he Is the opposite of them all.

He also seems to have developed a pathological hatred of anyone who isn't white and American(particularly Puerto Ricans)and has virtually said he will turn America into a dictatorship if he wins.

The difference between that and a resurgence in right wing populism in France for example, is that America is one of the 2 super powers on the planet

 

There's irony. 

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3 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

I don't think an example of a glaringly wrong use of a word makes your statement any more true tbh.

 

What is being done now is the definition of Zionism - so the word is absolutely correct being used there.

I get the point that labelling it as such - a widely used accepted term - maybe "sugarcoating" the events.

 

My viewpoint or opinion if you like, on Zionism is based on living on the doorstep the where the Jewish community is predominantly situated in Liverpool, and getting know a few of the residents within the community through the kids school and clubs the kids go to. 

 

I have been speaking to 9-10 over the past year  at various stages, and they have all said their idea of Zionism does not include force. They would like the war crimes to stop, Israeli's to live side by side with Palestinians and do not support anything the IDF or Netanyahu are doing and disassociate from them.

 

They don't want to live in Israel, and nor do their extended families (bar maybe one or two) They feel even though they rightly support Israel's right to exist (and Palestines) they feel they are lumped in the same bracket as the likes of Netanyahu etc. And they rightly feel that is unfair. But that is a society problem (those on my side of the political spectrum: left leaning) 

Where you say it's "glaringly wrong" while I understand,  I don't think it is when speaking to those people, whose feelings and opinions (no offence) I am going to take more notice of on the subject than someone who isn't Jewish. However that does not mean I am dismissing the definition of it, just viewing it from a different perspective I suppose.  

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That sounds fair.

TBH that seems to be conflating being Jewish with being Israeli but that is part of the larger picture/problem.

 

Netanyahu is the leader of Israel - the country. He has a mandate (and wide support) from the citizens of that country.

If it's not about religion then it is as simple as that - everyone has their opinion of how that is going.

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31 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

That sounds fair.

TBH that seems to be conflating being Jewish with being Israeli but that is part of the larger picture/problem.

 


I think they go hand in hand in relation to their Jewish heritage/culture/religious beliefs, happy for Stronts to correct me or any other Jewish members on here. 

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38 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

I have heard countless times that not all Jewish folks are Zionists.

 


I agree not all Jewish folk are Zionists, Orthodox Jews or Hasidic Jews for example aren’t as they feel it contradicts Judaism.
 

And as you and I both know, sometimes that’s not taken into account by some sections of society. Including those protesting against Israel’s occupation of Palestine. 

 

With regards to those I have been talking to, some do practice their religion, some don’t. I think all of their elders (father/uncle/grandparents etc) have their own roots in Israel. 
 

It’s a shame the only school in a 5 mile radius to where I live that has a security operation on the gates is the local Jewish secondary school. And that was before Oct 7th. 


 

 

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These are relatively short and very informative.  From ABC in Australia, a review of the last American Election and what this one could end up looking like.  It ain't good.  I knew a bit about the actions of Trump, but these give detail.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/if-youre-listening/america-s-last-election-the-big-lie/104474412

 

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/if-youre-listening/america-s-last-election-2-the-fake-elector-plot/104506492

 

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/if-youre-listening/trump-s-plan-to-reject-results/104534192
 

 

They're called America’s Last Election.  They're excellent.

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