Donald Trump

[Jose Jones]

The right wing love-in with Putins Russia is amazing. Just imagine for a second if Obama had done anything remotely close to that. Does anyone remember the whole non-saga with "his" czars?

Putin is a right wing autocrat so it makes sort of sense.

[Section_31]

Putin is a right wing autocrat so it makes sort of sense.

 

He's white too. Obama took most of his shit because he was black, it was that simple. The US Senate is 50s America without the Cadilacs and milkshake. 

[setreal]

Putin is a right wing autocrat so it makes sort of sense.

 

It makes sense on paper, sure. It was still unthinkable until very recently for the US prez and his PR-agency to take a stance like that.

[stringvest]

You could just choose to side with no one and have an intelligent conversation, instead of disengaging your brain and siding with the right.

Again.

 

 

he can't help himself.  Every now and again, he'll complain and say he would vote against both of them, but he's fooling no-one (apart from himself maybe) about who he would side with in a two-horse race.  He just can't abide the Democrats, despite them being the lesser of two evils in the eyes of most people on nodding terms with reality.

[cloggypop]

The Kremlin paid an army of more than 1,000 people to create fake anti-Hillary Clinton news stories targeting key swing states, the leading Democrat on the committee looking into alleged Russian interference in the US election has said.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russian-trolls-hilary-clinton-fake-news-election-democrat-mark-warner-intelligence-committee-a7657641.html

[Denny Crane]

The Kremlin paid an army of more than 1,000 people to create fake anti-Hillary Clinton news stories targeting key swing states, the leading Democrat on the committee looking into alleged Russian interference in the US election has said.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russian-trolls-hilary-clinton-fake-news-election-democrat-mark-warner-intelligence-committee-a7657641.html

Some would make the case certain overseas newspaper owner's have been doing this for decades.

 

The issue I have is what is the definition of fake news? Who gets to choose

[Red Phoenix]

You could just choose to side with no one and have an intelligent conversation, instead of disengaging your brain and siding with the right.

Again.

 

Make sure you don't get into the subject of the intelligence agencies.

 

he can't help himself.  Every now and again, he'll complain and say he would vote against both of them, but he's fooling no-one (apart from himself maybe) about who he would side with in a two-horse race.  He just can't abide the Democrats, despite them being the lesser of two evils in the eyes of most people on nodding terms with reality.

 

Bullshit narrative. I'd either have voted for Stein or not voted at all. Where is this imaginary fascist reality where you're forced to vote either fascist Clinton or fascist Trump? It doesn't exist. You've crafted an imaginary scenario that has no basis in reality.

 

It's "you're either with us or against us" bullshit. I support Nunes on this intelligence agency issue, his views would probably be in line with Sanders on surveillance, even if Sanders would prefer to see him replaced right now because of partisan Democrat BS. I also support Chaffetz with what he's done regarding the Fed. I agree with Rand Paul in some cases too. I'm not interested in the binary idea of being against everything every Republican does because Trump.

 

That doesn't mean I'm supporting a fascist clown in the White House who's already had hundreds of civilians killed in the Middle East and who wants to dismantle the EPA. Greens don't support that type of thing.

 

Ray McGovern from the last article I posted also sides with Nunes, and guess who he supported too. There's no need to create two-choice imaginary voting realities, and the problem of intelligence agencies doesn't have to be ignored.

 

Anyone noticed how none of the media or Dems have focused on the intelligence agency not helping Nunes problem? Even though Nunes would have no more reason that we know of to stall the Russia investigation if he finally got the documents he wants from them? OK. That doesn't seem dodgy at all.

[RedKnight]

"I'm supporting the Greens" feels like a cop-out both here and, especially, in the US. Voting Democrat over the current Republican party is like voting for getting hit in one bollock rather than having them both chopped off - you'd prefer neither to happen but if you had to make a choice, you'd pick the Democrats.

 

Do you even vote in UK national and local elections, RP?

[G Richards]

I voted Democrat. I would have much rather Bernie Sanders beat Hillary, but since he didn't, it was Hillary or Trump. One is a garden variety crook, though also competent and able to string some thoughts and policy together. The other is an unprecedented crook, especially for such high political office, who is wholly unsuited for the job on any number of levels. 

 

As it happened the dodgy electoral college system meant that my vote didn't really count anyway. Indiana has 11 electoral college votes and even though Hillary got 40% of the IN vote, this translated to 0/11 electoral college votes. (Trump got 57% of the vote here, and all 11 electoral college votes).

 

While I'm on it, I have given much thought to how in the world Trump managed to win Indiana. I've struggled a bit with this, as since I live here now I'm wondering what they were not able to see that was so clear to me? (Or vice versa, if that sounds arrogant!) As best as I can make out, both the haves and the have nots had their own reasons to vote for Trump. 

 

The haves will be glad for the tax cuts that will no doubt be on the way. 

 

The have-nots were sold a story that I don't think will bear out. Trump told them he would get good jobs for them, and stop them going overseas, and manufacturing would return, blah, blah blah. It was the whole "Make America Great Again" schtick. There were one or two interventions, e.g. Trump intervened and stopped some Carrier jobs going to Mexico, but I think that was mostly PR and didn't affect the overall trend of those types of jobs leaving the American economy at a rapid rate.

 

For the patriotic sorts, Trump tapped into a jingoistic sort of nationalist thing, which, to my mind, will only spell trouble ahead. 

[Red Phoenix]

"I'm supporting the Greens" feels like a cop-out both here and, especially, in the US. Voting Democrat over the current Republican party is like voting for getting hit in one bollock rather than having them both chopped off - you'd prefer neither to happen but if you had to make a choice, you'd pick the Democrats.

 

Do you even vote in UK national and local elections, RP?

 

Voting for Greens over here and in the US has some chance of creating change in the voting system if enough people push for it. Over here it even has the chance of getting Labour to form an alliance.

 

And no, as is already clear to people who've read what I've said in the past (we went into this during Brexit, where I was going to spoil my vote), I've never felt the need to vote at all. Up until last year I was more interested in anarchism. That makes no difference at all in my view of supporting Nunes vs the intelligence agencies.

[Fugitive]

Voting for Greens over here and in the US has some chance of creating change in the voting system if enough people push for it. Over here it even has the chance of getting Labour to form an alliance.

 

And no, as is already clear to people who've read what I've said in the past (we went into this during Brexit, where I was going to spoil my vote), I've never felt the need to vote at all. Up until last year I was more interested in anarchism. That makes no difference at all in my view of supporting Nunes vs the intelligence agencies.

It's people like you that are responsible for Brexit.

[Trumo]

While I understand that a lot of people feel a real change is necessary to get away from establishment thinking, and that neither of the main sides have that many redeeeming qualities, backing a complete fuckwit to front that change is absolutely not the answer.

[Red Phoenix]

From the WSJ :

 

Mike Flynn Offers to Testify in Exchange for Immunity

 

Former national security adviser tells FBI, the House and Senate intelligence committees he’s willing to be interviewed in exchange for deal, officials say

 

By Shane Harris, Carol E. Lee and Julian E. Barnes

Updated March 30, 2017 6:41 p.m. ET

 

WASHINGTON—Mike Flynn, President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser, has told the Federal Bureau of Investigation and congressional officials investigating the Trump campaign’s potential ties to Russia that he is willing to be interviewed in exchange for a grant of immunity from prosecution, according to officials with knowledge of the matter.

 

As an adviser to Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign, and later one of Mr. Trump’s top aides in the White House, Mr. Flynn was privy to some of the most sensitive foreign-policy deliberations of the new administration and was directly involved in discussions about the possible lifting of sanctions on Russia imposed by the Obama administration.

 

He has made the offer to the FBI and the House and Senate intelligence committees through his lawyer but has so far found no takers, the officials said.

 

Mr. Flynn’s attorney, Robert Kelner, declined to comment.

 

It wasn’t clear if Mr. Flynn had offered to talk about specific aspects of his time working for Mr. Trump, but the fact that he was seeking immunity suggested Mr. Flynn feels he may be in legal jeopardy following his brief stint as the national security adviser, one official said.

 

More here : https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-flynn-offers-to-testify-in-exchange-for-immunity-1490912959

[Section_31]

He's a rat!

[RedKnight]

Diplomatic immunity.

[Section_31]

Diplomatic immunity.

Has just been revoked

 

[Jose Jones]

Red Phoenix, on 31 Mar 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

 

Make sure you don't get into the subject of the intelligence agencies.

 

 

Bullshit narrative. I'd either have voted for Stein or not voted at all. Where is this imaginary fascist reality where you're forced to vote either fascist Clinton or fascist Trump? It doesn't exist. You've crafted an imaginary scenario that has no basis in reality.

 

It's "you're either with us or against us" bullshit. I support Nunes on this intelligence agency issue, his views would probably be in line with Sanders on surveillance, even if Sanders would prefer to see him replaced right now because of partisan Democrat BS. I also support Chaffetz with what he's done regarding the Fed. I agree with Rand Paul in some cases too. I'm not interested in the binary idea of being against everything every Republican does because Trump.

 

That doesn't mean I'm supporting a fascist clown in the White House who's already had hundreds of civilians killed in the Middle East and who wants to dismantle the EPA. Greens don't support that type of thing.

 

Ray McGovern from the last article I posted also sides with Nunes, and guess who he supported too. There's no need to create two-choice imaginary voting realities, and the problem of intelligence agencies doesn't have to be ignored.

 

Anyone noticed how none of the media or Dems have focused on the intelligence agency not helping Nunes problem? Even though Nunes would have no more reason that we know of to stall the Russia investigation if he finally got the documents he wants from them? OK. That doesn't seem dodgy at all.

Ok, I agree with all that.

You're just wrong about Nunes. He's a partisan player, not some freedom fighting good guy.

[Red Phoenix]

Looks like people might be getting carried away with the Flynn story (especially on twitter, it's gone crazy on there.) From ZeroHedge :

 

"He Certainly Has A Story To Tell" - Statement From Mike Flynn's Lawyer

 

Hot on the heels of the WSJ report that Trump's former National Security Advisor, Mike Flynn, has offered to testify in exchange for immunity from prosecution, Flynn's lawyer, Robert Kelner of the law firm Covington, issued the following statement, in which judging by Kelner's language, Flynn's offer is not so much to "turn" on Trump, as to set the record straight, while putting an end to the ongoing "media witch hunt", to wit:

 

"the media are awash with unfounded allegations, outrageous claims of treason, and vicious innuendo directed against him. He is now the target of unsubstantiated public demands by Members of Congress and other political critics that he be criminally investigated. No reasonable person, who has the benefit of advice from counsel, would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized, witch hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution."

 

Full statement by Kelner is here : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-30/he-certainly-has-story-tell-statement-mike-flynns-lawyer

 

His son also retweeted that from ZeroHedge, along with a live stream from someone else talking about how it's fake news.

[Red Phoenix]

Ok, I agree with all that.

You're just wrong about Nunes. He's a partisan player, not some freedom fighting good guy.

 

I don't think he's not partisan to some degree, doesn't mean he can't cause problems for the intelligence agencies at the same time though.

 

Favourite tweet so far on the Flynn thing too : https://twitter.com/AKADonaldTrump/status/847598386316312576

[Red Phoenix]

The White House has invited Schiff to see the same documents that Nunes has seen : http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/30/rep-adam-schiff-accepts-white-house-invitation-vie/

 

Here's Schiff speaking briefly on it : https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/847539541657272320

[Anubis]

New York Times have named the two White House staffers they say leaked intel to Nunes.

 

They are also reporting that the intel in question was not incidental surveillance of Trump or his team, but consists of surveillance of foreign officials talking about how they want to develop relationships with his family and his team.

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/30/us/politics/devin-nunes-intelligence-reports.html?_r=0&referer=https://t.co/doOUSapals

 

 

The intelligence reports consisted primarily of ambassadors and other foreign officials talking about how they were trying to develop contacts within Mr. Trump’s family and inner circle before his inauguration, officials said.

[Anubis]

.

[Section_31]

Getting really bored of it all now, just want him gone. 

 

If the implications of Flynn flipping are really bad, i.e prison/treason bad, I can't see how Pence can continue as President as he'll be tainted by association, surely another election would have to be called, and you'd imagine the Dems would steamroller them now. 

[stringvest]

Make sure you don't get into the subject of the intelligence agencies.

 

 

Bullshit narrative. I'd either have voted for Stein or not voted at all. Where is this imaginary fascist reality where you're forced to vote either fascist Clinton or fascist Trump? It doesn't exist. You've crafted an imaginary scenario that has no basis in reality.

 

It's "you're either with us or against us" bullshit. I support Nunes on this intelligence agency issue, his views would probably be in line with Sanders on surveillance, even if Sanders would prefer to see him replaced right now because of partisan Democrat BS. I also support Chaffetz with what he's done regarding the Fed. I agree with Rand Paul in some cases too. I'm not interested in the binary idea of being against everything every Republican does because Trump.

 

That doesn't mean I'm supporting a fascist clown in the White House who's already had hundreds of civilians killed in the Middle East and who wants to dismantle the EPA. Greens don't support that type of thing.

 

Ray McGovern from the last article I posted also sides with Nunes, and guess who he supported too. There's no need to create two-choice imaginary voting realities, and the problem of intelligence agencies doesn't have to be ignored.

 

Anyone noticed how none of the media or Dems have focused on the intelligence agency not helping Nunes problem? Even though Nunes would have no more reason that we know of to stall the Russia investigation if he finally got the documents he wants from them? OK. That doesn't seem dodgy at all.

 

 

see G Richards' excellent post for where you're going wrong. 

[Red Phoenix]

see G Richards' excellent post for where you're going wrong. 

 

It'd only apply to me if I supported Trump.

 

If what Nunes saw is bad and ends up being exposed to the public it causes problems for the media, the Dems (who's failures resulted in Trump being elected) and the intelligence agencies, and I'll be happy with that. It's not just the Republican Party that are America's problem.

 

And if it turns out that Trump isn't so easy to turf out of the White House, maybe the Dems should've fucking thought about consequences like that last year and changed how they went about things.