Donald Trump

[ZonkoVille77]

I hope Trump signs up on here and joins the long list of loonies that have graced the forum over the years.

[magicrat]

I hope Trump signs up on here and joins the long list of loonies that have graced the forum over the years.

 

He would be prince among loons 

[Cardie]

This

 

https://twitter.com/drs2222/status/846797373938569221

 

is fucking brilliant.

 

'Go ahead Ken...'

[VladimirIlyich]

He would be prince among loons

He'd have a supporter at least.

[Red Phoenix]

RP is doing a stellar job of convincing everybody that he's "not a Trump supporter" that's second only to his "I'm not posting in this thread anymore" argument.

 

And third to 'I'm not a raving loonball with serious issues'.

 

[Anubis]

This

 

https://twitter.com/drs2222/status/846797373938569221

 

is fucking brilliant.

 

'Go ahead Ken...'

Totally fake Ken.

[Red Phoenix]

This

 

https://twitter.com/drs2222/status/846797373938569221

 

is fucking brilliant.

 

'Go ahead Ken...'

 

Totally fake Ken.

 

Not trying to be a buzzkill, but : https://twitter.com/SteveKopack/status/846810226145873924

[Anubis]

If that explains he goes by the name Chuck but is a Ken, it's in the responses to the Tweet Carrie posted, hence my joke.k

[Red Phoenix]

If that explains he goes by the name Chuck but is a Ken, it's in the responses to the Tweet Carrie posted, hence my joke.k

 

Yeah it was, wasn't sure if you'd seen it or not though and it was tweeted after Cardie had posted too I think.

[Red Phoenix]

The Surveillance State Behind Russia-gate
March 28, 2017

Exclusive: Amid the frenzy over the Trump team’s talks with Russians, are we missing a darker story, how the Deep State’s surveillance powers control the nation’s leaders, ask U.S. intelligence veterans Ray McGovern and Bill Binney.

By Ray McGovern and Bill Binney

Although many details are still hazy because of secrecy – and further befogged by politics – it appears House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes was informed last week about invasive electronic surveillance of senior U.S. government officials and, in turn, passed that information onto President Trump.

This news presents Trump with an unwelcome but unavoidable choice: confront those who have kept him in the dark about such rogue activities or live fearfully in their shadow. (The latter was the path chosen by President Obama. Will Trump choose the road less traveled?)

What President Trump decides will largely determine the freedom of action he enjoys as president on many key security and other issues. But even more so, his choice may decide whether there is a future for this constitutional republic. Either he can acquiesce to or fight against a Deep State of intelligence officials who have a myriad of ways to spy on politicians (and other citizens) and thus amass derogatory material that can be easily transformed into blackmail.

This crisis (yes, “crisis” is an overused word, but in this highly unusual set of circumstances we believe it is appropriate) came to light mostly by accident after President Trump tweeted on March 4 that his team in New York City’s Trump Towers had been “wiretapped” by President Obama.

Trump reportedly was relying on media reports regarding how conversations of aides, including his ill-starred National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, had been intercepted. Trump’s tweet led to a fresh offensive by Democrats and the mainstream press to disparage Trump’s “ridiculous” claims.

However, this concern about the dragnets that U.S. intelligence (or its foreign partners) can deploy to pick up communications by Trump’s advisers and then “unmask” the names before leaking them to the news media was also highlighted at the Nunes-led House Intelligence Committee hearing on March 20, where Nunes appealed for anyone who had related knowledge to come forward with it.

That apparently happened on the evening of March 21 when Nunes received a call while riding with a staffer. After the call, Nunes switched to another car and went to a secure room at the Old Executive Office Building, next to the White House, where he was shown highly classified information apparently about how the intelligence community picked up communications by Trump’s aides.

The next day, Nunes went to the White House to brief President Trump, who later said he felt “somewhat vindicated” by what Nunes had told him.

The ‘Wiretap’ Red Herring

But the corporate U.S. news media continued to heckle Trump over his use of the word “wiretap” and cite the insistence of FBI Director James Comey and other intelligence officials that President Obama had not issued a wiretap order aimed at Trump.

As those paying rudimentary attention to modern methods of surveillance know, “wiretapping” is passé. But Trump’s use of the word allowed FBI and Department of Justice officials and their counterparts at the National Security Agency to swear on a stack of bibles that the FBI, DOJ, and NSA have been unable to uncover any evidence within their particular institutions of such “wiretapping.”

At the House Intelligence Committee hearing on March 20, FBI Director Comey and NSA Director Michael Rogers firmly denied that their agencies had wiretapped Trump Towers on the orders of President Obama.

So, were Trump and his associates “wiretapped?” Of course not. Wiretapping went out of vogue decades ago, having been rendered obsolete by leaps in surveillance technology.

The real question is: Were Trump and his associates surveilled? Wake up, America. Was no one paying attention to the disclosures from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden in 2013 when he exposed Director of National Intelligence James Clapper as a liar for denying that the NSA engaged in bulk collection of communications inside the United States.

The reality is that EVERYONE, including the President, is surveilled. The technology enabling bulk collection would have made the late demented FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover’s mouth water.

Allegations about the intelligence community’s abuse of its powers also did not begin with Snowden. For instance, several years earlier, former NSA worker and whistleblower Russell Tice warned about these “special access programs,” citing first-hand knowledge, but his claims were brushed aside as coming from a disgruntled employee with psychological problems. His disclosures were soon forgotten.

Intelligence Community’s Payback

However, earlier this year, there was a stark reminder of how much fear these surveillance capacities have struck in the hearts of senior U.S. government officials. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow that President Trump was “being really dumb” to take on the intelligence community, since “They have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.”

Maddow shied away from asking the logical follow-up: “Senator Schumer, are you actually saying that Trump should be afraid of the CIA?” Perhaps she didn’t want to venture down a path that would raise more troubling questions about the surveillance of the Trump team than on their alleged contacts with the Russians.

Similarly, the U.S. corporate media is now focused on Nunes’s alleged failure to follow protocol by not sharing his information first with Rep. Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. Democrats promptly demanded that Nunes recuse himself from the Russia investigation.

On Tuesday morning, reporters for CNN and other news outlets peppered Nunes with similar demands as he walked down a corridor on Capitol Hill, prompting him to suggest that they should be more concerned about what he had learned than the procedures followed.

That’s probably true because to quote Jack Nicholson’s character in “A Few Good Men” in a slightly different context, the mainstream media “cannot handle the truth” – even if it’s a no-brainer.

At his evening meeting on March 21 at the Old Executive Office Building, Nunes was likely informed that all telephones, emails, etc. – including his own and Trump’s – are being monitored by what the Soviets used to call “the organs of state security.”

By sharing that information with Trump the next day – rather than consulting with Schiff – Nunes may have sought to avoid the risk that Schiff or someone else would come up with a bureaucratic reason to keep the President in the dark.

A savvy politician, Nunes knew there would be high political cost in doing what he did. Inevitably, he would be called partisan; there would be more appeals to remove him from chairing the committee; and the character assassination of him already well under way – in The Washington Post, for example – might move him to the top of the unpopularity chart, displacing even bête noire Russian President Vladimir Putin.

But this episode was not the first time Nunes has shown some spine in the face of what the Establishment wants ignored. In a move setting this congressman apart from all his colleagues, Nunes had the courage to host an award ceremony for one of his constituents, retired sailor and member of the USS Liberty crew, Terry Halbardier.

On June 8, 1967, by repairing an antennae and thus enabling the USS Liberty to issue an SOS, Halbardier prevented Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats from sinking that Navy intelligence ship and ensuring that there would be no survivors to describe how the Israeli “allies” had strafed and bombed the ship. Still, 34 American seamen died and 171 were wounded.

At the time of the award ceremony in 2009, Nunes said, “The government has kept this quiet I think for too long, and I felt as my constituent, he [Halbardier] needed to get recognized for the services he made to his country.” (Ray McGovern took part in the ceremony in Nunes’s Visalia, California office.)

Now, we suspect that much more may be learned about the special compartmented surveillance program targeted against top U.S. national leaders if Rep. Nunes doesn’t back down and if Trump doesn’t choose the road most traveled – acquiescence to America’s Deep State actors.

Ray McGovern served as a CIA analyst for 27 years and conducted one-on-one briefings of the President’s Daily Brief under Ronald Reagan from 1981 to 1985.

Bill Binney was former Technical Director, World Geopolitical & Military Analysis, NSA and co-founder of NSA’s SIGINT Automation Research Center before he retired after 9/11.

 

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/03/28/the-surveillance-state-behind-russia-gate/

[Rico1304]

Lovely.

 

Anyway, State Department official charged with obstruction of Justice and making false statements to the FBI.

[Jose Jones]

Red Phoenix, on 30 Mar 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

 

The Surveillance State Behind Russia-gate

March 28, 2017

 

Exclusive: Amid the frenzy over the Trump team’s talks with Russians, are we missing a darker story, how the Deep State’s surveillance powers control the nation’s leaders, ask U.S. intelligence veterans Ray McGovern and Bill Binney.

 

By Ray McGovern and Bill Binney

 

Although many details are still hazy because of secrecy – and further befogged by politics – it appears House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes was informed last week about invasive electronic surveillance of senior U.S. government officials and, in turn, passed that information onto President Trump.

 

This news presents Trump with an unwelcome but unavoidable choice: confront those who have kept him in the dark about such rogue activities or live fearfully in their shadow. (The latter was the path chosen by President Obama. Will Trump choose the road less traveled?)

 

What President Trump decides will largely determine the freedom of action he enjoys as president on many key security and other issues. But even more so, his choice may decide whether there is a future for this constitutional republic. Either he can acquiesce to or fight against a Deep State of intelligence officials who have a myriad of ways to spy on politicians (and other citizens) and thus amass derogatory material that can be easily transformed into blackmail.

 

This crisis (yes, “crisis” is an overused word, but in this highly unusual set of circumstances we believe it is appropriate) came to light mostly by accident after President Trump tweeted on March 4 that his team in New York City’s Trump Towers had been “wiretapped” by President Obama.

 

Trump reportedly was relying on media reports regarding how conversations of aides, including his ill-starred National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, had been intercepted. Trump’s tweet led to a fresh offensive by Democrats and the mainstream press to disparage Trump’s “ridiculous” claims.

 

However, this concern about the dragnets that U.S. intelligence (or its foreign partners) can deploy to pick up communications by Trump’s advisers and then “unmask” the names before leaking them to the news media was also highlighted at the Nunes-led House Intelligence Committee hearing on March 20, where Nunes appealed for anyone who had related knowledge to come forward with it.

 

That apparently happened on the evening of March 21 when Nunes received a call while riding with a staffer. After the call, Nunes switched to another car and went to a secure room at the Old Executive Office Building, next to the White House, where he was shown highly classified information apparently about how the intelligence community picked up communications by Trump’s aides.

 

The next day, Nunes went to the White House to brief President Trump, who later said he felt “somewhat vindicated” by what Nunes had told him.

 

The ‘Wiretap’ Red Herring

 

But the corporate U.S. news media continued to heckle Trump over his use of the word “wiretap” and cite the insistence of FBI Director James Comey and other intelligence officials that President Obama had not issued a wiretap order aimed at Trump.

 

As those paying rudimentary attention to modern methods of surveillance know, “wiretapping” is passé. But Trump’s use of the word allowed FBI and Department of Justice officials and their counterparts at the National Security Agency to swear on a stack of bibles that the FBI, DOJ, and NSA have been unable to uncover any evidence within their particular institutions of such “wiretapping.”

 

At the House Intelligence Committee hearing on March 20, FBI Director Comey and NSA Director Michael Rogers firmly denied that their agencies had wiretapped Trump Towers on the orders of President Obama.

 

So, were Trump and his associates “wiretapped?” Of course not. Wiretapping went out of vogue decades ago, having been rendered obsolete by leaps in surveillance technology.

 

The real question is: Were Trump and his associates surveilled? Wake up, America. Was no one paying attention to the disclosures from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden in 2013 when he exposed Director of National Intelligence James Clapper as a liar for denying that the NSA engaged in bulk collection of communications inside the United States.

 

The reality is that EVERYONE, including the President, is surveilled. The technology enabling bulk collection would have made the late demented FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover’s mouth water.

 

Allegations about the intelligence community’s abuse of its powers also did not begin with Snowden. For instance, several years earlier, former NSA worker and whistleblower Russell Tice warned about these “special access programs,” citing first-hand knowledge, but his claims were brushed aside as coming from a disgruntled employee with psychological problems. His disclosures were soon forgotten.

 

Intelligence Community’s Payback

 

However, earlier this year, there was a stark reminder of how much fear these surveillance capacities have struck in the hearts of senior U.S. government officials. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow that President Trump was “being really dumb” to take on the intelligence community, since “They have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.”

 

Maddow shied away from asking the logical follow-up: “Senator Schumer, are you actually saying that Trump should be afraid of the CIA?” Perhaps she didn’t want to venture down a path that would raise more troubling questions about the surveillance of the Trump team than on their alleged contacts with the Russians.

 

Similarly, the U.S. corporate media is now focused on Nunes’s alleged failure to follow protocol by not sharing his information first with Rep. Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. Democrats promptly demanded that Nunes recuse himself from the Russia investigation.

 

On Tuesday morning, reporters for CNN and other news outlets peppered Nunes with similar demands as he walked down a corridor on Capitol Hill, prompting him to suggest that they should be more concerned about what he had learned than the procedures followed.

 

That’s probably true because to quote Jack Nicholson’s character in “A Few Good Men” in a slightly different context, the mainstream media “cannot handle the truth” – even if it’s a no-brainer.

 

At his evening meeting on March 21 at the Old Executive Office Building, Nunes was likely informed that all telephones, emails, etc. – including his own and Trump’s – are being monitored by what the Soviets used to call “the organs of state security.”

 

By sharing that information with Trump the next day – rather than consulting with Schiff – Nunes may have sought to avoid the risk that Schiff or someone else would come up with a bureaucratic reason to keep the President in the dark.

 

A savvy politician, Nunes knew there would be high political cost in doing what he did. Inevitably, he would be called partisan; there would be more appeals to remove him from chairing the committee; and the character assassination of him already well under way – in The Washington Post, for example – might move him to the top of the unpopularity chart, displacing even bête noire Russian President Vladimir Putin.

 

But this episode was not the first time Nunes has shown some spine in the face of what the Establishment wants ignored. In a move setting this congressman apart from all his colleagues, Nunes had the courage to host an award ceremony for one of his constituents, retired sailor and member of the USS Liberty crew, Terry Halbardier.

 

On June 8, 1967, by repairing an antennae and thus enabling the USS Liberty to issue an SOS, Halbardier prevented Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats from sinking that Navy intelligence ship and ensuring that there would be no survivors to describe how the Israeli “allies” had strafed and bombed the ship. Still, 34 American seamen died and 171 were wounded.

 

At the time of the award ceremony in 2009, Nunes said, “The government has kept this quiet I think for too long, and I felt as my constituent, he [Halbardier] needed to get recognized for the services he made to his country.” (Ray McGovern took part in the ceremony in Nunes’s Visalia, California office.)

 

Now, we suspect that much more may be learned about the special compartmented surveillance program targeted against top U.S. national leaders if Rep. Nunes doesn’t back down and if Trump doesn’t choose the road most traveled – acquiescence to America’s Deep State actors.

 

Ray McGovern served as a CIA analyst for 27 years and conducted one-on-one briefings of the President’s Daily Brief under Ronald Reagan from 1981 to 1985.

 

Bill Binney was former Technical Director, World Geopolitical & Military Analysis, NSA and co-founder of NSA’s SIGINT Automation Research Center before he retired after 9/11.

 

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/03/28/the-surveillance-state-behind-russia-gate/

Most of that is all good stuff.

Until it unfortunately gets into the Nunes defending and the use of Establishment with a capital E. Disappointing.

[Bjornebye]

An impeachment does not necessarily signal a change in President. For impeachment to be successful it needs the majority of the Senate (I think the threshold is 60 of 100 senators) to vote for it. The first issue will thus be getting 60 votes, which will be difficult in a Republican majority Senate. In other words, the Republicans themselves will have to turn on Trump to see him impeached. It may well be that enough of them will do this, and if it comes to that the court of public opinion will sway them, rather than any particular right or wrong. Public opinion on Trump in America is bad. He has the lowest approval ratings in history of any new President, by a huge margin. And almost 50% of the population already want to see him impeached.

 

There are two solid grounds on which to impeach him. The current FBI investigation into collusion with the Russians to undermine the integrity of the election is potential fertile ground for impeachment. As is the financial stuff (can't be bothered citing it all, but there are many instances of Trump being financially favoured by foreign governments, or agents of government, which is in direct violation of the Constitution's emolument provision). Americans don't like that stuff, as nobody wants to be bought and paid for by dem foreigners.

 

So impeachment could happen, but I think the poll numbers will need to go higher before enough Republicans turn on Trump to get it done. As an aside, when Republican President Nixon was impeached, it was a Democrat Congress. When Democrat Bill Clinton was impeached, it was a Republican Congress. So Trumps impeachment will have to come from his own party, at least in part.

 

So let's say he is impeached, what happens then?

 

Well, Nixon resigned but Clinton did not. Arguably Trump could be charged with whatever he is charged with and face the music for that without standing down. And it's possible that he will be happy to take on the Republican establishment as he can't really stand them, and vice versa... it's a total marriage of convenience at present.

 

If he does step down, or the charges are so bad that some sort of force majeuer comes into play and he is removed from office (again it will need his own party to tip that balance) then Mike Pence will be the President.

 

At that point it will be the usual political ideological battle if and when Pence becomes President. He is steady and competent, and the Republican base likes him... but obviously his agenda will be typical conservative stuff - big military, tax cuts, small government/welfare, etc. and it will be up to the Democrats to put forth a better case that would see them elected and governing with their own agenda.

 

If Pence becomes President and Trump is charged, one of the first things he will probably do is grant Trump a Presidential pardon. It's what Gerald Ford did under similar circumstances when he replaced Nixon.

 

The likelihood of Trump facing the music is, I'm afraid, slim to nil. Even if it all goes completely pear shaped for him and he is ousted, he will leave office a richer man, with his business interests strengthened, and he will almost certainly get a Presidential pardon from the next fella if charges are brought that would see him ousted.

Agreed. Up the ..... Ok.

[Red Phoenix]

Most of that is all good stuff.

Until it unfortunately gets into the Nunes defending and the use of Establishment with a capital E. Disappointing.

 

I think both Binney and McGovern will have a good idea of the type of surveillance Nunes is bothered about, and they'll be hoping he can make some of it public. Agreed on the capital e for establishment though.

[Jose Jones]

I think both Binney and McGovern will have a good idea of the type of surveillance Nunes is bothered about, and they'll be hoping he can make some of it public. Agreed on the capital e for establishment though.

Nah, Nunes doesn't give a shit, as seen by ignoring protocols and cancelling inquests.

He's a partisan player all about protecting the Trump administration from uncomfortable truths.

 

The surveillance state is way out of hand, really ramped up under Bush Jr, and then Obama in the states, and happily supported by both Conservatives and Labour in the U.K.

 

The partisan politicking of it (as per the end of that article) is probably the worst way of tackling it though. Trump and his administration don't care about the power of the "deep state" or citizens rights, he'd happily torture and murder families of people suspected of being terrorists after all.

 

They just care that they might be embarrassed by incriminating information.

[Red Phoenix]

Nah, Nunes doesn't give a shit, as seen by ignoring protocols and cancelling inquests.

He's a partisan player all about protecting the Trump administration from uncomfortable truths.

 

The surveillance state is way out of hand, really ramped up under Bush Jr, and then Obama in the states, and happily supported by both Conservatives and Labour in the U.K.

 

The partisan politicking of it (as per the end of that article) is probably the worst way of tackling it though. Trump and his administration don't care about the power of the "deep state" or citizens rights, he'd happily torture and murder families of people suspected of being terrorists after all.

 

They just care that they might be embarrassed by incriminating information.

 

The intelligence agencies are messing Nunes around at the same time if he's telling the truth about what he's seen. And I doubt he'd simply make it all up when he knows he'd soon be revealed as a fraud. He said the NSA were cooperating but they still haven't provided him with what he saw, the FBI have been messing him around from the off. Comey and Rogers didn't make the closed hearing on tuesday either so it was called off. That's not Nunes fault if they don't turn up.

 

The intelligence agencies have a history of messing congress/committees around and think they're above the law. Members of congress can't be happy about being spied on either which is what will be taking place. So either someone calls them out on it and succeeds, or they're allowed to take the piss.

 

Looks like it's going to drag on for a while as well. Fraud Dems and the media whine about Russia and ignore what people like Binney and McGovern (two people who know more about surveillance than any of congress or media) are saying because they're a bunch of clowns. They're too focused on the Trump Russia angle but nothing will really change in America if the intelligence agencies aren't sorted out.

[Jose Jones]

Red Phoenix, on 30 Mar 2017 - 2:30 PM, said:

 

The intelligence agencies are messing Nunes around at the same time if he's telling the truth about what he's seen. And I doubt he'd simply make it all up when he knows he'd soon be revealed as a fraud. He said the NSA were cooperating but they still haven't provided him with what he saw, the FBI have been messing him around from the off. Comey and Rogers didn't make the closed hearing on tuesday either so it was called off. That's not Nunes fault if they don't turn up.

 

The intelligence agencies have a history of messing congress/committees around and think they're above the law. Members of congress can't be happy about being spied on either which is what will be taking place. So either someone calls them out on it and succeeds, or they're allowed to take the piss.

 

Looks like it's going to drag on for a while as well. Fraud Dems and the media whine about Russia and ignore what people like Binney and McGovern (two people who know more about surveillance than any of congress or media) are saying because they're a bunch of clowns. They're too focused on the Trump Russia angle but nothing will really change in America if the intelligence agencies aren't sorted out.

You're parroting the partisan Trump angle again here RP, rather than using your own brain.

Very disappointing.

[Red Phoenix]

You're parroting the partisan Trump angle again here RP, rather than using your own brain.

Very disappointing.

 

I'm interested in what the intelligence agencies have been doing and think they should have their powers reduced. Nunes might be able to help with that by getting them to turn over what he saw and then getting something done about it if it's bad enough. Intel agencies have to answer to Nunes, he leads the committee that has oversight of all of them.

 

As for parroting, Dems and media have been parroting Russia since Wikileaks released Podesta's emails. There's been no proof of anything for almost half a year.

[Jose Jones]

Dude, come on.

[Rico1304]

This is brilliant, it sums him up perfect.

 

https://twitter.com/justin_kanew/status/846839914171940864

[Red Phoenix]

Dude, come on.

 

I'm not siding with "muh corporate doners" Democrats scared that some Obama administration surveillance will be uncovered and corrupt intelligence agencies engaged in a standoff with the head of the House Intelligence Committee.

[Section_31]

Genuinely don't see how anyone could side with Trump, he's an unprecedented moron. Just read any one of his speeches in full, without the edited bits, he's a babbling idiot and just a horrible, horrible man. 

[magicrat]

Genuinely don't see how anyone could side with Trump, he's an unprecedented moron. Just read any one of his speeches in full, without the edited bits, he's a babbling idiot and just a horrible, horrible man. 

 

A vocabulary of an infant but an infant that has been taught by a retard 

[Jose Jones]

I'm not siding with "muh corporate doners" Democrats scared that some Obama administration surveillance will be uncovered and corrupt intelligence agencies engaged in a standoff with the head of the House Intelligence Committee.

You could just choose to side with no one and have an intelligent conversation, instead of disengaging your brain and siding with the right.

Again.

[setreal]

The right wing love-in with Putins Russia is amazing. Just imagine for a second if Obama had done anything remotely close to that. Does anyone remember the whole non-saga with "his" czars?