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*Shakes head* Everton again.


Fugitive

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5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

At what?

He's one of the hardest working forwards in the world, runs like crazy and has a decent goal return for someone who has played for bad teams/has spent time on the wings and off another striker.

 

The Jota and Mané comps are a bit fanciful, those two had higher goal scoring potential, higher xG, but when you work hard like he works hard, you get opportunities in front of goal, and he does a good job at that. It's more that he's 25 and can take a next step for a better team.

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29 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 Her cousin was detailing how obvious it is we use PEDS and was honestly looking at me like I was stupid for denying it. 

Did he explain what the PEDs actually do? 

 

As a team, we don't run farther or faster than everyone else; we don't have fewer injuries or recover faster than others; we're certainly not bulked up like red-shirted Hulks. What are we getting from these PEDs?

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4 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

He's one of the hardest working forwards in the world, runs like crazy and has a decent goal return for someone who has played for bad teams/has spent time on the wings and off another striker.

 

The Jota and Mané comps are a bit fanciful, those two had higher goal scoring potential, higher xG, but when you work hard like he works hard, you get opportunities in front of goal, and he does a good job at that. It's more that he's 25 and can take a next step for a better team.

He works hard. That's where his quality ends. 

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3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

That's not objective.

 

Around 10 goals per season for a player of Richarlison's profile, especially considering he's played for a crap team, is a good return. It's already good and there's margin for improvement. It's almost like you've not paid attention at the signings we've made. Like I said, Jota and Mane had similar records, with room for improvement. 

And it’s like you’ve not paid attention that neither of them went for anything close to £60m quid.

 

£60m quid is still an exceptional amount of money for a footballer. Really, really good players change hands for less than that.
 

According to Wikipedia page of most inexpensive transfers ever only 29 players have changed hands for over £60m, of which that includes Ronaldo twice and Lukaku 3 times, and only 17 or 18 of them are attackers (depending on your definition of one).

 

Is that objective enough?

 

So you’re arguing that Richarlison - who by your acknowledgment scores 10 goals a season - and has been playing in the premier league for 6 years so isn’t a “promising young player” like a Sancho or Tchouaméni should become valued at the level that would make him one of the top 20 most valuable attackers ever?

 

Without anyone saying “he’s not worth it”? 
 

Ignore the Suarez stuff. It’s not necessary to include that. Your point of view looks daft enough without it.

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4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Did he explain what the PEDs actually do? 

 

As a team, we don't run farther or faster than everyone else; we don't have fewer injuries or recover faster than others; we're certainly not bulked up like red-shirted Hulks. What are we getting from these PEDs?

Come out with some stats along the lines of us pressing more in the final 20 minutes than any other team in the world, abnormal engines and them all having asthma. In short he was chatting a load of shite. 

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2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Come out with some stats along the lines of us pressing more in the final 20 minutes than any other team in the world, abnormal engines and them all having asthma. In short he was chatting a load of shite. 

If you don't blow yourselves out in the first 15 minutes of a game you have more energy for the last 15 minutes.

 

Everton take their PEDS too early.

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2 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

And it’s like you’ve not paid attention that neither of them went for anything close to £60m quid.

 

£60m quid is still an exceptional amount of money for a footballer. Really, really good players change hands for less than that.
 

According to Wikipedia page of most inexpensive transfers ever only 29 players have changed hands for over £60m, of which that includes Ronaldo twice and Lukaku 3 times, and only 17 or 18 of them are attackers (depending on your definition of one).

 

Is that objective enough?

 

So you’re arguing that Richarlison - who by your acknowledgment scores 10 goals a season - and has been playing in the premier league for 6 years so isn’t a “promising young player” like a Sancho or Tchouaméni should become valued at the level that would make him one of the top 20 most valuable attackers ever?

 

Without anyone saying “he’s not worth it”? 
 

Ignore the Suarez stuff. It’s not necessary to include that. Your point of view looks daft enough without it.

Do you think a player that was signed for 40m and who has been a success, can't go for 20m more in his next move? Answer that. What do you want Everton to do? Break even on their best player? It's the market. There are clubs who are in the running to pay that fee, notably Spurs.

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Just now, TD_LFC said:

If you don't blow yourselves out in the first 15 minutes of a game you have more energy for the last 15 minutes.

 

Everton take their PEDS too early.

I just said "You're chatting shit, we don't press because we've always got the ball especially against you lot" and left him looking like Quaid when his helmet breaks in Total Recall 

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His penalty scoring abilty over the last two months of the season definately helped them. 

From August until the end of March, a grand total of 4 goals. 

From April until end of season, a lot better  6 goals, 3 of which were penalties. 

 

Amazing player

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36 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Do you think a player that was signed for 40m and who has been a success, can't go for 20m more in his next move? Answer that. What do you want Everton to do? Break even on their best player? It's the market. There are clubs who are in the running to pay that fee, notably Spurs.

Your definition of success and mine are wildly different. He’s been ok. Even Everton fans themselves haven’t been completely sold on him at stages.

 

so no, I don’t think it’s reasonable for Everton to expect to make a 50% profit on a player that they overpaid for initially.

 

They might want to, but I don’t think they should expect to.

 

We signed Heaney for £14.85m aged 22, and he had 5 seasons with us, winning trophies and scoring far more goals than Richy has. We sold him on at 27, for a loss.

 

That was before oil money and American hedge funds ruled the waves and so there was a lot less cash splashed but that gives some context.

 

you’ve pointed to Mane and Jota, both transferred for less than Richy.

 

Just because Everton want it, doesn’t mean it’s not mental.

 

I don’t care if spurs overpay for a player I think is fairly shit. Why should I? But I will comment that they’re idiots if they end up paying anything close to £60 for that turd.

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46 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Your definition of success and mine are wildly different. He’s been ok. Even Everton fans themselves haven’t been completely sold on him at stages.

 

so no, I don’t think it’s reasonable for Everton to expect to make a 50% profit on a player that they overpaid for initially.

 

They might want to, but I don’t think they should expect to.

 

We signed Heaney for £14.85m aged 22, and he had 5 seasons with us, winning trophies and scoring far more goals than Richy has. We sold him on at 27, for a loss.

 

That was before oil money and American hedge funds ruled the waves and so there was a lot less cash splashed but that gives some context.

 

you’ve pointed to Mane and Jota, both transferred for less than Richy.

 

Just because Everton want it, doesn’t mean it’s not mental.

 

I don’t care if spurs overpay for a player I think is fairly shit. Why should I? But I will comment that they’re idiots if they end up paying anything close to £60 for that turd.

I think there's a couple things you don't understand, so we probably shouldn't go further. 

 

For one, Heskey and Richarlison aren't similar at all. Richarlison's goal record for a forward that moves around the front line and isn't just a static poacher is pretty good. You'd think our fans would have a better understanding for those kinds of forwards as we've bought loads of them by now, but I guess not. Mentioning Heskey is just a bizarre point. And Richarlison is still 25. Those players have inherently more value as he's not in his prime years yet.

 

Two, I just don't think you get the transfer market. If you play well, you're at a good age and you have years left on your deal, you will go for more money. If a team decides to buy Richarlison, he will go for a lot of money and rightfully so. Everton took a risk when they bought him, and got a good return. It's only natural that his value has gone up. 

 

If he's stuck at Everton, you will have had a point as teams won't have wanted to pay what he's worth, and someone will get him for cheaper next year, but they're entitled to ask for that kind of money and Spurs seem to be interested, so we'll see, but his value is absolutely fair. Either Everton keep their best player or they get an adequate fee.

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6 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I think there's a couple things you don't understand, so we probably shouldn't go further. 

 

 


 

You arrogant fucker. Don’t tell me what I don’t understand you little gobshite.
 

when you’re constantly having to explain to lots and lots of people who have been watching footie and following this club for many, many more years than you, why they are wrong and your are right, maybe stop and have a think about just how right you actually are.

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Just now, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You arrogant fucker. Don’t tell me what I don’t understand you little gobshite.
 

when you’re constantly having to explain to lots and lots of people who have been watching footie and following this club for many, many more years than you, why they are wrong and your are right, maybe stop and have a think about just how right you actually are.

We keep arguing in circles. Clearly, you don't understand my point. What do you want me to say? There's only so much we can talk about when your point is "Richarlison is a turd".

 

I even through you a bone in my last paragraph, relax, mate.

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16 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

There's also the fact it's a transfer between two PL clubs. That always raises the price. 

 

Edit: Hard to think of many instances when one PL club signed the best player from another and didn't have to pay handsomely.

Can't remember how much Van Persie went for but it seemed like a steal.

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10 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

For one, Heskey and Richarlison aren't similar at all. Richarlison's goal record for a forward that moves around the front line and isn't just a static poacher is pretty good. You'd think our fans would have a better understanding for those kinds of forwards as we've bought loads of them by now, but I guess not. Mentioning Heskey is just a bizarre point. And Richarlison is still 25. Those players have inherently more value as he's not in his prime years yet.

my initial reaction to your incredible arrogance out of the way, I’ll respond to your post.
 

1. They’re not particularly similar players, granted, but they’re similar scenarios. He’s key was bought at a tender age for a lot of money, and sold on 5 years later, with the “prime” of his years ahead of him,

 

That £11m (correction from the Transfermarkt figure used prior, that must’ve been euros) at the time was our record signing. So a pretty big deal. 
 

While a record to us, that £11m was a fraction of the £36m Crespo went for the same summer, or the £32m Vieri went for the year before.

 

a little like £40m Everton paid for Richarlison being a big deal for them but a fraction of the global transfer record for Naymar or the slightly less obscene £150m for Mbappe the same season.

 

so far, so comparable, hey?

 

you might not know this, but Heskey

also wasn’t only used as a striker, he sometimes got played out wide too. Not very effectively mind you, but he did, sometimes.

 

So far you’ve compared Richarlison’s value with that of Mane and Jota - simultaneously accepting and ignoring that they went for far less money than the £60m were talking about, and despite accepting they both compared favourably to Richarlison in terms of output.

 

 Richarlison plays mostly up front. Yes it’s for a shit team, but his record for them hasn’t been good. It’s been ok. Because he is ok. 
 

Two, I just don't think you get the transfer market. If you play well, you're at a good age and you have years left on your deal, you will go for more money. If a team decides to buy Richarlison, he will go for a lot of money and rightfully so. Everton took a risk when they bought him, and got a good return. It's only natural that his value has gone up. 

 

If he's stuck at Everton, you will have had a point as teams won't have wanted to pay what he's worth, and someone will get him for cheaper next year, but they're entitled to ask for that kind of money and Spurs seem to be interested, so we'll see, but his value is absolutely fair. Either Everton keep their best player or they get an adequate fee.

the problem here is not that I don’t understand, it’s that I don’t agree. You’re arrogance tells you that people who don’t agree with you must not be able to understand and don’t have your level of intellect. You’ve made that clear.

 

“Play well”… not for me, Clive.

“At a good age”… old enough to have seen what you’re about, and not good enough for me, Clive.

”Rightfully so”… not for me, Clive.


“Everton took a risk”… I’d say Everton overpaid, Clive.

“And got a good return”… 10 goals a season is ok, but not great. I’m not calling that a good return, Clive.

 

“It’s only natural his value has gone up”… that’s the problem with the modern world for me, Clive, the need for constant growth in a world of limited resources. Not everything has to increase in value for me, Clive.

 

Its fair for Everton to ASK for whatever they want. And if Spurs are willing to pay £60m for a fella who doesn’t do a great deal of things to a particularly high standard, scores 10 goals per season and spend most of his time on the floor, I guarantee I’ll say with complete confidence that they’ve been had and wasted their money.


 

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