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*Shakes head* Everton again.

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As an OOT who doesn’t get back to Liverpool as much as he’d like these days what exactly is it that turned the relationship between reds and blues so sour?  When I was a kid at my grandparents in West Derby there was never any nastiness (that I noticed) but a bit of gentle ribbing and piss taking but no hatred or bile like now.   Can’t all be down to Heysel can it?   Really quite sad how things have changed. 

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Its the internet and fan forums, social media etc. People can sprout any old shite and can be viewed by thousands instantly. Years ago you had to talk to someone you knew and very few would say some of things youvread about now. You have to be careful to think a few knobheads on GOT or twitter represent the entire fanbase. Same with our fans too. 

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Imagine financially doping your team, spending more than the vast majority of your rivals, stiffing the local authority on payment of bills and using very dubious accounting methods to avoid being sanctioned and still being threatened with relegation due to how inept you are at utilising the advantages - do you know how shit you have to be to achieve that?
 

Bill Kenwright could produce a musical to rival “the producers” based on this saga. 

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48 minutes ago, Pete said:

As an OOT who doesn’t get back to Liverpool as much as he’d like these days what exactly is it that turned the relationship between reds and blues so sour?  When I was a kid at my grandparents in West Derby there was never any nastiness (that I noticed) but a bit of gentle ribbing and piss taking but no hatred or bile like now.   Can’t all be down to Heysel can it?   Really quite sad how things have changed. 

 

They believed that Moshiri and his money and shadowy backer would put them back at the top of the pile after a decade and a half of obscurity. But poor decision making, them falling away, and us building some success has led to a very hostile atmosphere from their younger generation of fans. Now it's ok to label us murderers, wall-pushers, sing Hillsborough victim songs, make face against fence gestures relating to Hillsborough, and suggest that our success is down to a combination of PEDs and an overarching conspiracy to help us succeed that would put the efforts of SPECTRE to shame.  Exacerbated by Everton the club pushing the local vs out-of-town argument, despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

 

And it winds them up doubly that we respond by treating them as an ongoing source of amusement.

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52 minutes ago, Pete said:

As an OOT who doesn’t get back to Liverpool as much as he’d like these days what exactly is it that turned the relationship between reds and blues so sour?

Sibling rivalry where one sibling is the toast of the town and the other lives in a shed. In the 80's they at least got invited to the occasional party, but now they just turn up pissed and embarrass themselves.

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Rafa had a 1 point per game record with them this season and a significant injury crisis for a fair chunk of that. Lampard's is 0.67. 

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3 hours ago, Pete said:

As an OOT who doesn’t get back to Liverpool as much as he’d like these days what exactly is it that turned the relationship between reds and blues so sour?  When I was a kid at my grandparents in West Derby there was never any nastiness (that I noticed) but a bit of gentle ribbing and piss taking but no hatred or bile like now.   Can’t all be down to Heysel can it?   Really quite sad how things have changed. 


It is all down to Heysel.

 

If Heysel hadn’t have happened, Putin wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine. 

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3 hours ago, Pete said:

As an OOT who doesn’t get back to Liverpool as much as he’d like these days what exactly is it that turned the relationship between reds and blues so sour?  When I was a kid at my grandparents in West Derby there was never any nastiness (that I noticed) but a bit of gentle ribbing and piss taking but no hatred or bile like now.   Can’t all be down to Heysel can it?   Really quite sad how things have changed. 

I think there was bonding period after Hillsborough - I certainly felt that - where there was no great appetite for internecine warfare. I can only speak from my own experience, but there were quite a few touching moments that put a lot of the old nonsense into a proper perspective. Then Joe Royle came along, with all the 'Dogs of War' crap, and not only did he encourage a revival of the old bitterness (on and off the pitch), but, for many of us (I think) the sheer cynical regressiveness of doing so after so many had seemed to have 'grown up' and moved on really caused a lot of anger.

 

You know, you get to the stage when you stand back and think, 'I love this city so why should I hate half of it?' and you pull back from that old attitude, and then that lot eagerly bring all of that poison (and more) right back again. That's what did it for me. 

 

And since then (thanks in part to Moyes' pathetic 'People's Club' garbage - which, if such an insult had come from us to them, there would have been mayoral interventions, marching protests and probably court cases led by the Barolo-cheeked Kenwright!) the bile has grown worse and worse, to the point where I never want to go to Goodison ever again, to sit amongst all that real naked hate. They've brought all of this on themselves and there's no real way back for them now.

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4 hours ago, Pete said:

As an OOT who doesn’t get back to Liverpool as much as he’d like these days what exactly is it that turned the relationship between reds and blues so sour?  When I was a kid at my grandparents in West Derby there was never any nastiness (that I noticed) but a bit of gentle ribbing and piss taking but no hatred or bile like now.   Can’t all be down to Heysel can it?   Really quite sad how things have changed. 

Two words…

 

David. Moyes. 
 

edit: but also mainly what @gkmaccasaid above. 

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Thanks all. Interesting to read.  My granddad (Big reds fan) used to go to Everton games when LFC where away.  Doubt there’s many that do this now. 

Sad it’s come to this really 

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50 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Davies? Although they could use another diver.

Yes, sorry Davies. So insignificant I couldn’t even remember his surname.

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14 minutes ago, Pete said:

Thanks all. Interesting to read.  My granddad (Big reds fan) used to go to Everton games when LFC where away.  Doubt there’s many that do this now. 

Sad it’s come to this really 

I use to do that loads did at one time.

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4 hours ago, Pete said:

As an OOT who doesn’t get back to Liverpool as much as he’d like these days what exactly is it that turned the relationship between reds and blues so sour?  When I was a kid at my grandparents in West Derby there was never any nastiness (that I noticed) but a bit of gentle ribbing and piss taking but no hatred or bile like now.   Can’t all be down to Heysel can it?   Really quite sad how things have changed. 

Yes, Heysel is the root of it. It's been repeatedly used by their fans as the sole reason for their demise so much so that Heysel is now a badge of honour for them.

 

All clubs were affected by the ban. They forget or ignore we served an extra year after English clubs were re admitted. Some fans did get prison sentences and virtually all clubs in UEFA have forgiven but not forgotten, rightly, the terrible events of Heysel.

 

Only one set of fans parade a flag around PL grounds regarding the 39 fans who died that night. No points for knowing which club's fans that is.

4 hours ago, JagSquared said:

Imagine financially doping your team, spending more than the vast majority of your rivals, stiffing the local authority on payment of bills and using very dubious accounting methods to avoid being sanctioned and still being threatened with relegation due to how inept you are at utilising the advantages - do you know how shit you have to be to achieve that?
 

Bill Kenwright could produce a musical to rival “the producers” based on this saga. 

'What would everton do?'

3 hours ago, Anubis said:

 

They believed that Moshiri and his money and shadowy backer would put them back at the top of the pile after a decade and a half of obscurity. But poor decision making, them falling away, and us building some success has led to a very hostile atmosphere from their younger generation of fans. Now it's ok to label us murderers, wall-pushers, sing Hillsborough victim songs, make face against fence gestures relating to Hillsborough, and suggest that our success is down to a combination of PEDs and an overarching conspiracy to help us succeed that would put the efforts of SPECTRE to shame.  Exacerbated by Everton the club pushing the local vs out-of-town argument, despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

 

And it winds them up doubly that we respond by treating them as an ongoing source of amusement.

This as well. The massive injection of cash Moshiri has injected into the club has been pissed up against the wall and not propelled them to where they think they should be. There's some justification in that, over £500m and you've gone from outside the top 6 or 7 to fighting relegation.

 

Dom King has pointed the finger at Moshiri and he maybe should carry some of the responsibility. But the everton fans have driven the last 4 or 5 managers out of the club. One didnt even get his feet through the door and they rejected him, Fonseca(?). Now, there's a groundswell of opinion to get rid of Fwank, their fanbase choosen one after less than 70 days. Some going there!

40 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

I think there was bonding period after Hillsborough - I certainly felt that - where there was no great appetite for internecine warfare. I can only speak from my own experience, but there were quite a few touching moments that put a lot of the old nonsense into a proper perspective. Then Joe Royle came along, with all the 'Dogs of War' crap, and not only did he encourage a revival of the old bitterness (on and off the pitch), but, for many of us (I think) the sheer cynical regressiveness of doing so after so many had seemed to have 'grown up' and moved on really caused a lot of anger.

 

You know, you get to the stage when you stand back and think, 'I love this city so why should I hate half of it?' and you pull back from that old attitude, and then that lot eagerly bring all of that poison (and more) right back again. That's what did it for me. 

 

And since then (thanks in part to Moyes' pathetic 'People's Club' garbage - which, if such an insult had come from us to them, there would have been mayoral interventions, marching protests and probably court cases led by the Barolo-cheeked Kenwright!) the bile has grown worse and worse, to the point where I never want to go to Goodison ever again, to sit amongst all that real naked hate. They've brought all of this on themselves and there's no real way back for them now.

This as well. The shite's problem seems to be one of aggression every way they turn. There was a coming together after Hillsbrough but I believe that started evaporating soon after the 89 Cup Final.

 

You'd think that after winning the cup in 95(?), they could have turned a corner regarding their attitude towards the effects of Hysel but again if there was, it soon evaporated quicker than a snowball in hell after we started winning trophies pretty regularly from 2001 while their own drought increased.

 

Ive no time for these cunts now. Ma was a blue and she'd be horrified at this shit. There's undoubtedly numerous decent old school blues and I bear them no ill will, but the rest, fuck off.

 

Bankruptcy will let them off the hook somewhat so I really do hope they slip through the Championship and end up in League One.

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Had a bit of a snoop over lunch and saw a user called "Colonel Getafe" and now I kind of want them to stay up.

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