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Fugitive

*Shakes head* Everton again.

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46 minutes ago, manwiththestick said:

Even the bit about Diana? Now that I didn't know!

 

This place sometimes is knowledge.

Incredible as it may seem, yes.

Craig has said he will go to his grave without anyone knowing the truth.

So I sort of fucked him over really.

Knowledge is king.

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On 05/07/2021 at 20:16, dockers_strike said:

Ha! I thought it was this one. At least someone pointed out the flaw in the argument!

 

Screenshot from 2021-07-05 20:14:56.png

Moaning about something that happened or didn’t happen decades before is something only a small club would do. Rafa has only been proven to be more correct which is probably why they’re still unable to forgive him.

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The ban wasn't just for heysel it was for English fans behaviour for years previous including Everton fans and their hooligan book writers who took pride in being the exact cunts they deny they have. You know what I know we want to take ownership of heysel but any club that played in that stadium at that time the same thing would of happened the biggest crime of all is that a crumbling derelict shit hole was given that game.

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We can't get away from the fact that some of our fans were to blame for what happened at Heysel. The ones responsible went to prison as they should have done. 

 

The rest of English football seem to conveniently forget about how many cunts caused murder for well over a decade, yet brag about it in books and films. But the scousers got everyone banned.

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12 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

The ban wasn't just for heysel it was for English fans behaviour for years previous including Everton fans and their hooligan book writers who took pride in being the exact cunts they deny they have. You know what I know we want to take ownership of heysel but any club that played in that stadium at that time the same thing would of happened the biggest crime of all is that a crumbling derelict shit hole was given that game.

And their former love child, manchester united, were the first English club banned from European competition in 78 after their fans rioted at St Etienne. Just why St Etienne supported united's re instatement is beyond me.

 

Maybe if, just if, united's ban had continued, the hoolies following English clubs around Europe would have had a reality check?

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Multiple Evertonians have waxed lyrical to me about the good old days when they’d fight around Europe, climb in to stadiums, cause hell up and down the country and then use Heysel as a stick to beat me with because I’m a Liverpool fan. It doesn’t matter that I was born in the middle of the 80’s and they were genuinely actively part of the problem, it’s my fault they’re shit.

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12 hours ago, Doctor Troy said:

The ones responsible went to prison as they should have done. 

They still want justice for the 39 Italians though. 

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15 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

And their former love child, manchester united, were the first English club banned from European competition in 78 after their fans rioted at St Etienne. Just why St Etienne supported united's re instatement is beyond me.

 

Maybe if, just if, united's ban had continued, the hoolies following English clubs around Europe would have had a reality check?

If my mind serves me correctly,the Liverpool fans jailed most serious crime was manslaughter? The judiciary admitting that even in law there were other factors at play. This doesn't excuse their behaviour one bit though. I do know people who went,family members who didnt go for anything other than the football and they told me there were absolutely no innocent parties on that day. The behaviour of elements of both sets of fans was shameful. But I suppose the ages of the blue kids who shout it are mostly those who weren't even born and have just been fed bullshit by older blues with an axe to grind,hence the factual inaccuracies being spouted.

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8 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

If my mind serves me correctly,the Liverpool fans jailed most serious crime was manslaughter? The judiciary admitting that even in law there were other factors at play. This doesn't excuse their behaviour one bit though. I do know people who went,family members who didnt go for anything other than the football and they told me there were absolutely no innocent parties on that day. The behaviour of elements of both sets of fans was shameful. But I suppose the ages of the blue kids who shout it are mostly those who weren't even born and have just been fed bullshit by older blues with an axe to grind,hence the factual inaccuracies being spouted.

manslaughter sounds about right though doesn't it? nobody set out to kill anyone and the deaths didn't happen from a direct consequence of the violence, rather the indirect consequence of the stadium failing when people tried to get away. but somehow the bloos think that isn't justice. and you know why? because they aren't 1 bit arsed about the people who died that day, the real victims. they are just arsed about how they are the victims. when they say "justice for the 39", what they actually mean, is "justice for the ev". 

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People forget the many Juve fans in the neural section having ULTRAS cards and throwing stuff at Liverpool fans as well. Not condoning the response one bit but something the shite will never have is perspective. I know quite a few who were at both and to a man say Rome the year before was far worse for violence, Reds getting picked off and slashed beaten robbed etc. No surprise a year later in the face of Italians again a fair few Reds thought about a bit of revenge. Nobody should have died, nobody was supposed to die.  

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I was at Rome 84 and Heysel. In Rome we had to negotiate things that even compared to away at Leeds in the '70s were incomprehensible. I really thought I was going to die that night.

 

At Heysel I just walked into the ground as the turnstile(s) had simply fallen apart. A Belgian cop just looked at me and shrugged his shoulders. First thing that greeted me was a brick (or something) flying past my head. Later I realised it was a part of the fucking stadium. Stadium, yeah, what a fucking joke. Until we got out of the ground and spoke to the coach driver we had no idea of the severity of what had happened, let alone the fatalities.

 

I do not condone for a moment what those LFC 'fans' did but it was typical of so much shit that had been going on for years.

 

Yeah, Blooshite or anyone blame us for it. It goes a fucking lot deeper then that.

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My uncle stayed in a campsite about 10 miles away. Most nights were fine and both sets of fans mixed. The night before the game loads of other Juve fans turned up wrecking everyone's tents, fighting and riding mopeds through the campsites armed with knives.

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2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

People forget the many Juve fans in the neural section having ULTRAS cards and throwing stuff at Liverpool fans as well. Not condoning the response one bit but something the shite will never have is perspective. I know quite a few who were at both and to a man say Rome the year before was far worse for violence, Reds getting picked off and slashed beaten robbed etc. No surprise a year later in the face of Italians again a fair few Reds thought about a bit of revenge. Nobody should have died, nobody was supposed to die.  

The thing is as everyone who went through the 70s and 80s knows, even if you weren't someone who went looking for trouble, if it was going off, you fought because if you didn't you'd get fucked. I'm not saying it's right, it's just a reality. I didn't go looking for trouble back in those days, but ended up in the middle of loads of it and felt lucky to get out of it in 1 piece. It doesnt excuse what happened, but it was an inevitable consequence having inadequate segregation that it would go off. And the stadium tipped that from another 80s day out to a fatal situation.

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I went to Heysel, my missus went to Rome the year before, she still says she’s never been as scared at any match as that night in Rome. 

Shouldn’t have surprised anyone that there was trouble in Brussels given the way things were then and the club, Council and Merseyside Police warned weeks in advance that the stadium was a shithole with serious security flaws.
Totally ignored of course by UEFA.

There’s a whole shitload of things that went on in Belgium in the lead up to and at the start of that match that many of our fans have mentioned before.

I’ve always believed some things will never get discussed openly because it meets too many agendas to have them aired, not that I’m privy to facts by the way, it’s just a feeling I’ve had.

There were deaths and there had to be blame, and like it or not, it was us that were there and had there been no charge from our section, there would likely have been no deaths and so we were to blame.

 

 

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13 hours ago, El Dangerous said:

It doesn’t matter that I was born in the middle of the 80’s and they were genuinely actively part of the problem, it’s my fault they’re shit.

Finally, some accountability. About fucking time you faced up to your demons mate. 

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3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

The thing is as everyone who went through the 70s and 80s knows, even if you weren't someone who went looking for trouble, if it was going off, you fought because if you didn't you'd get fucked. I'm not saying it's right, it's just a reality...

 

This just isn't true, mate. I have been to hundreds of games in all divisions, during that period. Saw it going off many many times. I didn't fight. I never HAD to fight. The same is true of the lads I went with.  

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4 minutes ago, Jennings said:

 

This just isn't true, mate. I have been to hundreds of games in all divisions, during that period. Saw it going off many many times. I didn't fight. I never HAD to fight. The same is true of the lads I went with.  

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQlfJyAe4FihJ8ft6ikhr9

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Jennings said:

 

This just isn't true, mate. I have been to hundreds of games in all divisions, during that period. Saw it going off many many times. I didn't fight. I never HAD to fight. The same is true of the lads I went with.  

Good for you. You didn't travel away with Liverpool much then. Or go away pretty much anywhere, because I know loads of fellas who supported other clubs and travelled in that period. Because it went off litterally every match. I don't know much what it was like in other divisions because I went where Liverpool went. You couldn't go to any game between clubs from major cities and it not be like the wild west. In the ground obviously it was segregated (which heysel was not), outside was anything but unless you were in a police escort. 

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I was lucky, I went to a few aways in the 70’s & 80’s and never got too involved, although I was too close at hand on a number of occasions when there was a kick off.

You still had to cover up your colours, especially if you were on your own, and after the League Cup replay with West Ham at Villa Park, I just dug my hands into my pockets, kept my head down and kept walking while there was all sorts of mayhem happening.

Wembley was iffy at times as we would get the train in from Harrow on the Hill and there were occasionally “welcoming committees” knocking about, although the serious number of reds tended to put off all except the real nutcases from opposition teams.


I’ve mentioned before that there was a TV program on in the days after the Heysel game where there was an invited audience of some of the more “established” hoolies and one of them actually said, regarding the deaths, “This has been coming for a while now, the scousers were just unlucky it was them”, which in itself is a scary indictment of how violence was almost an expected part of the game all over Europe.

Thankfully, it isn’t these days.

 

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In the book Fever Pitch by Nick Hornby he talks about Heysel and said something similar, it was a clash of fan culture where running at the opposition fans which pretty much a regular occurence in England and he'd seen it loads at Arsenal and could have happened to any of the clubs.

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6 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Good for you. You didn't travel away with Liverpool much then. Or go away pretty much anywhere, because I know loads of fellas who supported other clubs and travelled in that period. Because it went off litterally every match. I don't know much what it was like in other divisions because I went where Liverpool went. You couldn't go to any game between clubs from major cities and it not be like the wild west. In the ground obviously it was segregated (which heysel was not), outside was anything but unless you were in a police escort. 

I wouldn't say you HAD to fight but anybody,and I mean anybody,could end up caught in a massive kick off with bottles,cans,bricks or anything throwable whizzing around your head and body. Often Liverpool's large travelling supporters were able to make most wannabe hooligans think twice before kicking off. 

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7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Good for you. You didn't travel away with Liverpool much then. Or go away pretty much anywhere, because I know loads of fellas who supported other clubs and travelled in that period. Because it went off litterally every match. I don't know much what it was like in other divisions because I went where Liverpool went. You couldn't go to any game between clubs from major cities and it not be like the wild west. In the ground obviously it was segregated (which heysel was not), outside was anything but unless you were in a police escort. 

Whenever you were buying your tickets and the lady behind the counter said "fighting or non-fighting?", did you say "fighting" every time?

 

Schoolboy error. 

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