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Fugitive

*Shakes head* Everton again.

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Yet domestically after Heysel we were still the best. They should be glad we are not even further ahead. 

 

They should be fucking ashamed of themselves to keep going on about the trophies they could of won when 39 people died, who gives a fuck about your shitty what ifs.

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1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

Ha! I thought it was this one. At least someone pointed out the flaw in the argument!

 

Screenshot from 2021-07-05 20:14:56.png

If it impacted on any side more than the others, it was Liverpool. 
Any claim that Everton would have gone on to dominate Europe is optimistic at best. Dynamo Kiev won the Cup Winners Cup the following season, but I don’t remember them going on a long spree of European title wins. The next season it was Ajax - historic European giants who nonetheless still didn’t pick up another continental trophy for another five years. And then it was Mechelen, whoever the hell Mechelen are. 
Liverpool actually used to win the European Cup on a regular basis. That very bunch of Liverpool players used to win the European Cup on a regular basis, and it’s not hard to see the next group of players - Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge - being worthy winners too. 
Everton would have qualified for Europe in four out of five seasons during the ban. Liverpool would have qualified every season. But apparently Everton suffered the worst. 

Or maybe it’s the impact it had on the club? Was that what meant Everton suffered the most? In which case why not concentrate on how it meant that sides like Oxford, Coventry, Luton, Norwich and Wimbledon all missed out on a first-ever European campaign? Hell, why not talk about how Clough never got to lead Forest back into European competition after rebuilding the side, or how Derby missed out on the same? Spurs missed out three times, and are a club with a far greater European pedigree. 
Everton were the real victims? Absolute nonsense, as ever. 

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7 minutes ago, Ron B said:

If it impacted on any side more than the others, it was Liverpool. 
Any claim that Everton would have gone on to dominate Europe is optimistic at best. Dynamo Kiev won the Cup Winners Cup the following season, but I don’t remember them going on a long spree of European title wins. The next season it was Ajax - historic European giants who nonetheless still didn’t pick up another continental trophy for another five years. And then it was Mechelen, whoever the hell Mechelen are. 
Liverpool actually used to win the European Cup on a regular basis. That very bunch of Liverpool players used to win the European Cup on a regular basis, and it’s not hard to see the next group of players - Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge - being worthy winners too. 
Everton would have qualified for Europe in four out of five seasons during the ban. Liverpool would have qualified every season. But apparently Everton suffered the worst. 

Or maybe it’s the impact it had on the club? Was that what meant Everton suffered the most? In which case why not concentrate on how it meant that sides like Oxford, Coventry, Luton, Norwich and Wimbledon all missed out on a first-ever European campaign? Hell, why not talk about how Clough never got to lead Forest back into European competition after rebuilding the side, or how Derby missed out on the same? Spurs missed out three times, and are a club with a far greater European pedigree. 
Everton were the real victims? Absolute nonsense, as ever. 

Heysel is their catch all subject as it includes two of their favourite pastimes.

 

Slagging Liverpool off and moaning about how everyone wants to keep Everton down at all costs. 

 

Never realising it's because they are shit.

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15 minutes ago, Ron B said:

If it impacted on any side more than the others, it was Liverpool. 
Any claim that Everton would have gone on to dominate Europe is optimistic at best. Dynamo Kiev won the Cup Winners Cup the following season, but I don’t remember them going on a long spree of European title wins. The next season it was Ajax - historic European giants who nonetheless still didn’t pick up another continental trophy for another five years. And then it was Mechelen, whoever the hell Mechelen are. 
Liverpool actually used to win the European Cup on a regular basis. That very bunch of Liverpool players used to win the European Cup on a regular basis, and it’s not hard to see the next group of players - Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge - being worthy winners too. 
Everton would have qualified for Europe in four out of five seasons during the ban. Liverpool would have qualified every season. But apparently Everton suffered the worst. 

Or maybe it’s the impact it had on the club? Was that what meant Everton suffered the most? In which case why not concentrate on how it meant that sides like Oxford, Coventry, Luton, Norwich and Wimbledon all missed out on a first-ever European campaign? Hell, why not talk about how Clough never got to lead Forest back into European competition after rebuilding the side, or how Derby missed out on the same? Spurs missed out three times, and are a club with a far greater European pedigree. 
Everton were the real victims? Absolute nonsense, as ever. 

Great factual post

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41 minutes ago, Ron B said:

If it impacted on any side more than the others, it was Liverpool. 
Any claim that Everton would have gone on to dominate Europe is optimistic at best. Dynamo Kiev won the Cup Winners Cup the following season, but I don’t remember them going on a long spree of European title wins. The next season it was Ajax - historic European giants who nonetheless still didn’t pick up another continental trophy for another five years. And then it was Mechelen, whoever the hell Mechelen are. 
Liverpool actually used to win the European Cup on a regular basis. That very bunch of Liverpool players used to win the European Cup on a regular basis, and it’s not hard to see the next group of players - Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge - being worthy winners too. 
Everton would have qualified for Europe in four out of five seasons during the ban. Liverpool would have qualified every season. But apparently Everton suffered the worst. 

Or maybe it’s the impact it had on the club? Was that what meant Everton suffered the most? In which case why not concentrate on how it meant that sides like Oxford, Coventry, Luton, Norwich and Wimbledon all missed out on a first-ever European campaign? Hell, why not talk about how Clough never got to lead Forest back into European competition after rebuilding the side, or how Derby missed out on the same? Spurs missed out three times, and are a club with a far greater European pedigree. 
Everton were the real victims? Absolute nonsense, as ever. 

While obviously it was pretty unlikely they wouldn't have gone on a swept all before them, not least because they couldn't get past a Liverpool team in transition in 86,  they'd probably point to juventus winning the CWC in 84 that their was some precedence to winning that cup being a step to big ears. 

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1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

While obviously it was pretty unlikely they wouldn't have gone on a swept all before them, not least because they couldn't get past a Liverpool team in transition in 86,  they'd probably point to juventus winning the CWC in 84 that their was some precedence to winning that cup being a step to big ears. 

What did Juventus do in 85-86?

 

I'm convinced that if the disaster didn't happen we would've won the EC in 85, that would have had us and them in the same competition and how would they have coped with that (forgetting that awful screen cup nonsense) as extra games when they couldn't even cope with our (worst 80s) side?  Don't forget we almost made the League Cup final that year too - not bad for one of our least favoured teams.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Red_or_Dead said:

What did Juventus do in 85-86?

 

I'm convinced that if the disaster didn't happen we would've won the EC in 85, that would have had us and them in the same competition and how would they have coped with that (forgetting that awful screen cup nonsense) as extra games when they couldn't even cope with our (worst 80s) side?  Don't forget we almost made the League Cup final that year too - not bad for one of our least favoured teams.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that, but that comparison will still stand! The year before juventus won it, I'm sure Aberdeen did, so clearly history is on the side of not being CWC winners and European cup winners in consecutive seasons, but it won't change what they can point to. I prefer to remind them they were 2nd best in our city in 86, so why would they think they'd be the best in Europe?

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1 hour ago, Ron B said:

If it impacted on any side more than the others, it was Liverpool. 
Any claim that Everton would have gone on to dominate Europe is optimistic at best. Dynamo Kiev won the Cup Winners Cup the following season, but I don’t remember them going on a long spree of European title wins. The next season it was Ajax - historic European giants who nonetheless still didn’t pick up another continental trophy for another five years. And then it was Mechelen, whoever the hell Mechelen are. 
Liverpool actually used to win the European Cup on a regular basis. That very bunch of Liverpool players used to win the European Cup on a regular basis, and it’s not hard to see the next group of players - Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge - being worthy winners too. 
Everton would have qualified for Europe in four out of five seasons during the ban. Liverpool would have qualified every season. But apparently Everton suffered the worst. 

Or maybe it’s the impact it had on the club? Was that what meant Everton suffered the most? In which case why not concentrate on how it meant that sides like Oxford, Coventry, Luton, Norwich and Wimbledon all missed out on a first-ever European campaign? Hell, why not talk about how Clough never got to lead Forest back into European competition after rebuilding the side, or how Derby missed out on the same? Spurs missed out three times, and are a club with a far greater European pedigree. 
Everton were the real victims? Absolute nonsense, as ever. 

In 1985-86 Anderlecht got a bye in the first round, having been nominally drawn against Everton. Anderlecht were decent at the time, so it's far from certain that Everton would have got past them.

 

If they had, the second round brought opponents more in line with Everton's European pedigree - Cypriot champions Omonia.

 

The Quarter Finals would have seen a re-match with Bayern. Again, it's not a foregone conclusion that Everton would have won.

 

The Semi-Final would have paired them with Steaua, who - obviously - knew how to get a result.

 

If they had managed to get passed all that lot, they would have faced Barcelona in the Final.

 

So, it's all bollocks, isn't it.  They've only ever beaten one decent side, but they would have had to beat 3 or 4 in 1986. There's no way they would have won in 86, never mind going on to dominate Europe for years.

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16 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't disagree with any of that, but that comparison will still stand! The year before juventus won it, I'm sure Aberdeen did, so clearly history is on the side of not being CWC winners and European cup winners in consecutive seasons, but it won't change what they can point to. I prefer to remind them they were 2nd best in our city in 86, so why would they think they'd be the best in Europe?

The CWC into EC winners is a big misnomer - not sure many did that before Juventus or did it after (not sure).  Like you say Baz, they were 2nd best to one of our weakest 80s winning sides and couldn't handle that.

 

I've heard some rational bluenoses say that they changed the way they played to accommodate Linekar and whilst they scored more goals they also didn't win as many games.  Also, I'd add that thing that when you win the league with a great team (like their 84-85 team), the next season there is a drop off as  the other teams work you out (c.f. our 87-88 team).

 

 

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5 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That Bayern result really is the one and only time they've beaten a good team in Europe.  

 

The absolute state of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everton_F.C._in_European_football

 

Just compare it to our article. Night and day. We even get photos and a gold star.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_F.C._in_international_football

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9 minutes ago, Red_or_Dead said:

've heard some rational bluenoses say that they changed the way they played to accommodate Lineker and whilst they scored more goals they also didn't win as many games. 

 

Well they changed their way to accommodate Britain’s most expensive player when they smashed the transfer record in 1988 (three years after the European ban - but don’t mention that when they talk about how it handicapped them more than it did any other side). 
Sadly, Tony Cottee scored fewer goals and the team won fewer matches. Which is odd, because if it’s such a handicap having strikers who score goals you’d have imagined they would have been flying with Cottee, who never managed half as many goals in a single season as Lineker did in 85-86. 

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8 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

In 1985-86 Anderlecht got a bye in the first round, having been nominally drawn against Everton. Anderlecht were decent at the time, so it's far from certain that Everton would have got past them.

 

If they had, the second round brought opponents more in line with Everton's European pedigree - Cypriot champions Omonia.

 

The Quarter Finals would have seen a re-match with Bayern. Again, it's not a foregone conclusion that Everton would have won.

 

The Semi-Final would have paired them with Steaua, who - obviously - knew how to get a result.

 

If they had managed to get passed all that lot, they would have faced Barcelona in the Final.

 

So, it's all bollocks, isn't it.  They've only ever beaten one decent side, but they would have had to beat 3 or 4 in 1986. There's no way they would have won in 86, never mind going on to dominate Europe for years.

Anderlecht lost out on the UEFA Cup on pens to Spurs just a season or two earlier. Everton probably wouldnt have got past them.

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15 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That Bayern result really is the one and only time they've beaten a good team in Europe.  

 

The absolute state of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everton_F.C._in_European_football

 

They were dogshit before 1984/5 and dogshit from 1990 onwards; but, obviously, they were world-beaters for the late Eighties.  Their boasts about what they would have won during the ban sound like your weedy drunken mate after you've stopped him squaring up to the bouncers. "You shouldn't have held me back.  I would have battered the lot of them."

They go mad when you tell them If that Bayern team were any good they wouldn’t have been in the cup winners cup

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Considering how they made so much of Klopp's record in finals, they weren't so hot themselves in the 80's. Fine against teams suffering from nosebleeds from the altitude like Watford and Rapid Vienna, but the moment they ran across anyone with a pedigree they folded like a cheap suit.

  • First team to lose a Merseyside derby final (couldn't score a goal in 210 minutes of football)
  • First team to lose against ten men in an FA Cup final
  • First team to lose a Merseyside derby FA Cup final (having led at half-time)
  • First team to lose a Merseyside derby FA Cup final in extra time (against a team who were playing their sixth game in 17 days)
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1 hour ago, deiseach said:

Considering how they made so much of Klopp's record in finals, they weren't so hot themselves in the 80's. Fine against teams suffering from nosebleeds from the altitude like Watford and Rapid Vienna, but the moment they ran across anyone with a pedigree they folded like a cheap suit.

  • First team to lose a Merseyside derby final (couldn't score a goal in 210 minutes of football)
  • First team to lose against ten men in an FA Cup final
  • First team to lose a Merseyside derby FA Cup final (having led at half-time)
  • First team to lose a Merseyside derby FA Cup final in extra time (against a team who were playing their sixth game in 17 days)


 

Don’t forget the first team to lose a Cup Final with two different names (Simod and Full Members Cup) to former European Champions Notts Forest 4-3 in 1989  

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12 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Just compare it to our article. Night and day. We even get photos and a gold star.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_F.C._in_international_football

Here's a thought - setting aside the fact that Everton have only ever beaten one big club in Europe, are there any big clubs that we have never beaten (either in a group game, over two legs or in a final)?  Atletico are probably the biggest . Anyone else?

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15 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Here's a thought - setting aside the fact that Everton have only ever beaten one big club in Europe, are there any big clubs that we have never beaten (either in a group game, over two legs or in a final)?  Atletico are probably the biggest . Anyone else?

Sporting Lisbon

Feyenoord

Glasgow Rangers

Melchester Rovers

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