Quantcast
*Shakes head* Everton again. - Page 1957 - FF - Football Forum - The Liverpool Way Jump to content
Fugitive

*Shakes head* Everton again.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, The Gaul said:

Yeah, it depends who those loans are with I guess. Everything they're doing feels pretty h&g, although I firmly believe they'd still be here had we not had the financial crisis and it became so difficult to borrow. 


Yes, a rare benefit in a global recession. 
 

Hopefully The Ev won’t be so lucky in the forthcoming one coming next year (and being compounded by Brexit). 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, davelfc* said:

Without planning permission, I doubt it. Although they are free to move the traffic cone in preparation. 

I think they could probably start clearing the site without planning permission. However, I doubt they've even moved that come at this point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Gaul said:

I'm not sure it was going to cost them 20m a year, they were planning to spread the cost over about 40 years! And borrowing has never been cheaper. I get what you are saying and I also thought they would struggle to get the money before covid. I actually think covid won't have harmed them at all though, in fact there'll be all kinds of chances for grants or subsidised loans etc imo for large infrastructure projects and along with that it could also kick start the rest of the Liverpool waters scheme. 

I am not so sure revenues will go down at all. I think this for 2 reasons -

 

1. Overseas rights are already worth more than the domestic aren't they? And everything I've read has suggested this will only continue to grow. 

 

2. Sky are literally fuck all without premier league football. Nobody is arsed about any of it. If there was no football, I think a massive part of sky's subscription base would just go to Freeview and put their money into streaming services and wherever football ends up. There was a time the PL needed a TV partner, but I feel pretty certain they could go to market and do it themselves now and I would be shocked if they did it alone they couldn't double today's money. 

 

Ultimately I don't think the PL want to run in that direction right now, but they've got it as a bargaining chip. Sky have nothing to negotiate with. 

I'm with this view. 

I never thought the losses from TV would be as big as some said. 

 

If say Sky or Brin started demanding the huge amounts that was initially said the Premier league would likely have just told them when your contracts up you will not get any new deals. We will distribute ourselves online or go to a rival provider. That would pretty much kill any platform that basis itself on live sports. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Scott_M said:


Yes, a rare benefit in a global recession. 
 

Hopefully The Ev won’t be so lucky in the forthcoming one coming next year (and being compounded by Brexit). 

As I posted on the previous page, I genuinely believe this could be a blessing for them. I think when we start coming out of this crisis, there will be a lot of support for all manner of infrastructure projects and I genuinely believe there will be a drive to getting people back to working in offices because of the support it brings to the hospitality industry. If there is ambition at Everton , Peel and LCC I reckon there's every chance it could genuinely be a kick starter for that whole Liverpool waters area. While I'd laugh my tits off if Everton went down, I honestly don't mind if they get to build this stadium and I would be positive about it if I thought it would be genuinely helpful to the city. 

 

Having said all that, I still doubt the ambition of LCC and Peel and the intentions of moshiri, so there is a long way to go on this imo and if I was gambling, my money would still be where it was before the pandemic and on them not doing it. But I do think the environment to do it is better now than before. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

I'm with this view. 

I never thought the losses from TV would be as big as some said. 

 

If say Sky or Brin started demanding the huge amounts that was initially said the Premier league would likely have just told them when your contracts up you will not get any new deals. We will distribute ourselves online or go to a rival provider. That would pretty much kill any platform that basis itself on live sports. 

There's another part to the equation I should have also mentioned in my post you're replying to. And that is the success of this sky proclaimed "best league in the world" is intrinsically linked to the clubs within it being able to compete with Europe's finest for footballers. The idea sides in the bottom half of the league can take players from pretty much everywhere except the elite European teams is the very basis of the PL product. If sky attempt to short change the premier league, they actually undermine their own product. It's almost like making a TV show and having the choice to cast me or Al Pacino in the lead role. The show might be good, bad or indifferent, but not many people want to tune in to see me. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

There's another part to the equation I should have also mentioned in my post you're replying to. And that is the success of this sky proclaimed "best league in the world" is intrinsically linked to the clubs within it being able to compete with Europe's finest for footballers. The idea sides in the bottom half of the league can take players from pretty much everywhere except the elite European teams is the very basis of the PL product. 

Which underlines the eternal peril of relegation for them. Which, if The Gaul is right, they will now be petrified of for the 40 seasons they’ll be paying this off - Everton usually look better than the three teams who go down, but they’ve come close enough far too often.

Sunderland and Leeds both managed to go into meltdown without the hindrance of massively expensive white elephant stadium which they couldn’t fill. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

There's another part to the equation I should have also mentioned in my post you're replying to. And that is the success of this sky proclaimed "best league in the world" is intrinsically linked to the clubs within it being able to compete with Europe's finest for footballers. The idea sides in the bottom half of the league can take players from pretty much everywhere except the elite European teams is the very basis of the PL product. If sky attempt to short change the premier league, they actually undermine their own product. It's almost like making a TV show and having the choice to cast me or Al Pacino in the lead role. The show might be good, bad or indifferent, but not many people want to tune in to see me. 

Not even if you've got plasters on your nipples? 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sky were paying £11m per match on their previous contract, though that’s come down a bit on the latest contract. Good luck to the PL getting that sort of money if they were to sell games directly, as that Sky contract included matches such as Newcastle v Palace and Bournemouth v West Ham. I think the days of the PL rinsing Sky for tv money are over, they’ll probably get a new deal on similar terms when the next contract comes up for tender. The growth will continue to be in the overseas rights, but even they will be impacted if we can’t get full houses in the stadiums soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Ron B said:

Which underlines the eternal peril of relegation for them. Which, if The Gaul is right, they will now be petrified of for the 40 seasons they’ll be paying this off - Everton usually look better than the three teams who go down, but they’ve come close enough far too often.

Sunderland and Leeds both managed to go into meltdown without the hindrance of massively expensive white elephant stadium which they couldn’t fill. 

This season coming i reckon is massive for them. And not about if they can get in the top 6, as even with ancelotti they almost certainly can't. But the words of Coleman towards the end of the season suggest something is really bad in the dressing room and it's not one or two bad eggs, it's a culture there. Forgetting our rivalry for a moment I think it's fascinating if ancelotti can turn it around. It's a challenge he's never had before and perhaps he's only there for the money and doesn't care. However, being a top professional he is also pretty likely to really love the idea of fixing them and almost making his CV look better for the journey at the end of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with that. Maybe Ancelotti can pull them together but I think there is something rotten at the heart of the club and it begins and ends with the way they obsessively judge themselves against us. It's not just the fans as players, ex-players, previous managers, owners, administrators are all at it. It's something Ancelotti needs to change if they are going to be meaningful again. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spot on aws. Every conversation with an Everton fan will come back to a snide dig at us. I honestly reckon they would enjoy being Everton fans more if they got relegated and batted around the lower leagues with the odd Johnson Paint Trophy or Cup run to cheer. Imagine your benchmark at the start of every season going from "Finish above the Red shite" then by October "Finish 6th hope they don't get out the group stages" then by February "Top 10 is the minimum acceptable and hope they don't win fuck all come May" 

 

It's unhealthy for a lot of them. Imagine spending your whole life consumed by a club you don't support. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Spot on aws. Every conversation with an Everton fan will come back to a snide dig at us. I honestly reckon they would enjoy being Everton fans more if they got relegated and batted around the lower leagues with the odd Johnson Paint Trophy or Cup run to cheer. Imagine your benchmark at the start of every season going from "Finish above the Red shite" then by October "Finish 6th hope they don't get out the group stages" then by February "Top 10 is the minimum acceptable and hope they don't win fuck all come May" 

 

It's unhealthy for a lot of them. Imagine spending your whole life consumed by a club you don't support. 

Wonderful isnt it? 

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, aws said:

Agree with that. Maybe Ancelotti can pull them together but I think there is something rotten at the heart of the club and it begins and ends with the way they obsessively judge themselves against us. It's not just the fans as players, ex-players, previous managers, owners, administrators are all at it. It's something Ancelotti needs to change if they are going to be meaningful again. 

Agreed - obsession with us drives unrealistic ambitions to catch up and overtake us very quickly. If you can’t do that in one season, then off you go. Then it’s wash, rinse and repeat ad nauseoum and ad infinitim. That will never, ever change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 30/07/2020 at 12:32, Stickman said:

Oh yea of little faith ....

Now I know next to fuck all about the building trade but I wouldn’t have thought a Saturday is a day you start work on a major building project 

 

@TheGwladysSt

Glenigan has confirmed that work is set to begin on Bramley-Moore Dock this Saturday.
Start date 1/8/2020

End date. 1/8/2023

contract period 36 months 

 

EeIQsREWsAI-8iK?format=jpg&name=large

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Scheme comprises application for full planning permission..."

 

That suggests to me that the work that was due to start on Saturday is finalising the planning submission.   Any moving of cones or planting of spades is contingent on that.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

"Scheme comprises application for full planning permission..."

 

That suggests to me that the work that was due to start on Saturday is finalising the planning submission.   Any moving of cones or planting of spades is contingent on that.

So... the “work” that starts on Saturday is paperwork? Desperate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Gaul said:

This season coming i reckon is massive for them. And not about if they can get in the top 6, as even with ancelotti they almost certainly can't. But the words of Coleman towards the end of the season suggest something is really bad in the dressing room and it's not one or two bad eggs, it's a culture there. Forgetting our rivalry for a moment I think it's fascinating if ancelotti can turn it around. It's a challenge he's never had before and perhaps he's only there for the money and doesn't care. However, being a top professional he is also pretty likely to really love the idea of fixing them and almost making his CV look better for the journey at the end of it. 

It’s also a no-lose for him. Money aside, his record won’t be judged based on what he does at Everton - whether it’s a wild triumph or a horrible disaster (I’m assuming that ‘Wild triumph’ won’t involve winning league or European titles here, an assumption I hope you will all forgive). 
Only Bob and Zidane can match his three European Cups; he’s won the league in England, Germany, Italy and France; he led Real and Milan to become World Champions; and evening as a player he won Serie A three times plus the European Cup twice. 
So even though he’s a consummate pro, this isn’t the job that will define him. Worst case scenario it’ll be like Cruyff’s final season at Barcelona, or Del Bosque’s last couple of years with Spain - a postscript to an absolutely sensational management career. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Gaul said:

This season coming i reckon is massive for them. And not about if they can get in the top 6, as even with ancelotti they almost certainly can't. But the words of Coleman towards the end of the season suggest something is really bad in the dressing room and it's not one or two bad eggs, it's a culture there. Forgetting our rivalry for a moment I think it's fascinating if ancelotti can turn it around. It's a challenge he's never had before and perhaps he's only there for the money and doesn't care. However, being a top professional he is also pretty likely to really love the idea of fixing them and almost making his CV look better for the journey at the end of it. 

Agree with this. Ancelotti has to change the shite's mindset of always using Liverpool as their excuse for failure. Much like Jurgen's turning doubters into believers, if you will.

 

Will be interesting to see if Carlo has the wherewithall to carry it off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ancelotti will always be judged and revered for what he has done in his long and distinguished history, not by what he couldn't do, in the twilight of his career. His successes, both domestic and European will preserve his legacy, and the tiny blip on the radar, or Everton, if you prefer to call them by their chosen name, will be shrugged off and forgotten as inconsequential. Fitting, really.

 

That BBC article is damning and unforgiving at every turn. Great read, indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Vincent Vega said:

Sky were paying £11m per match on their previous contract, though that’s come down a bit on the latest contract. Good luck to the PL getting that sort of money if they were to sell games directly, as that Sky contract included matches such as Newcastle v Palace and Bournemouth v West Ham. I think the days of the PL rinsing Sky for tv money are over, they’ll probably get a new deal on similar terms when the next contract comes up for tender. The growth will continue to be in the overseas rights, but even they will be impacted if we can’t get full houses in the stadiums soon.

There'll become season ticket of some kind. Or they'll strike deals with a global streamer line Amazon and fuck off domestic and world rights through that type of platform. The key here is sky have no platform anyone is arsed about if they lose the PL. The PL football rights and the reason for sky's existence, without it it'll be worthless, as sky have just found out when people started cancelling during the pandemic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Frank Dacey said:

Yeah, a point I found most interesting was this "Who will take Sigurdsson, Fabian Delph, Cenk Tosun, Theo Walcott and even Alex Iwobi, signed for an eye-watering £34m from Arsenal on deadline day last summer?" . They have an entire squad of shit players, so are these the bad apples Coleman was referencing previously? 3 or 4 of them would start most games, so it's fine you say you want rid of them, but how are they replacing them and want do they do if they can't get rid and the poison stays in the dressing room? 

1 hour ago, Ron B said:

It’s also a no-lose for him. Money aside, his record won’t be judged based on what he does at Everton - whether it’s a wild triumph or a horrible disaster (I’m assuming that ‘Wild triumph’ won’t involve winning league or European titles here, an assumption I hope you will all forgive). 
Only Bob and Zidane can match his three European Cups; he’s won the league in England, Germany, Italy and France; he led Real and Milan to become World Champions; and evening as a player he won Serie A three times plus the European Cup twice. 
So even though he’s a consummate pro, this isn’t the job that will define him. Worst case scenario it’ll be like Cruyff’s final season at Barcelona, or Del Bosque’s last couple of years with Spain - a postscript to an absolutely sensational management career. 

Absolutely. I am not saying this will define him. But his professionalism throughout his career would lead you to think there must be something in it for him other than money. I am not saying money would not be his driving motivation to take the job, just once he gets there, what's he to lose by trying to do it well? But he has the type of job on his hands he's never done before and that might be just why he's there. But back to my post earlier, it's why I think it's fascinating what'll happen there this year. And as much as I like ancelotti, I'm rooting for the tosuns of this world to win the day! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Gaul said:

As I posted on the previous page, I genuinely believe this could be a blessing for them. I think when we start coming out of this crisis, there will be a lot of support for all manner of infrastructure projects and I genuinely believe there will be a drive to getting people back to working in offices because of the support it brings to the hospitality industry. If there is ambition at Everton , Peel and LCC I reckon there's every chance it could genuinely be a kick starter for that whole Liverpool waters area. While I'd laugh my tits off if Everton went down, I honestly don't mind if they get to build this stadium and I would be positive about it if I thought it would be genuinely helpful to the city. 

 

Having said all that, I still doubt the ambition of LCC and Peel and the intentions of moshiri, so there is a long way to go on this imo and if I was gambling, my money would still be where it was before the pandemic and on them not doing it. But I do think the environment to do it is better now than before. 

We bought a new house down there 20 years ago and Peel were promising a mini city build back then. Heard the new apartments in the old tobacco warehouse aren’t selling nor getting the expected interest so can’t see them pumping money in while people are losing their jobs to build apartment blocks next to a footy ground that’s only going there to block the view of the sewage farm. 
 

Who wants to spend big money on a flat only to have 50,000 people pissing in your doorway every other week. There’ll be chaos down there trying to get in and out on a match day. 
 

Once the commonwealth games were lost they should have binned it and went to Gillmoss. However, they’ve backed themselves into a corner now and will probably build it and fuck themselves up for generations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HAHAHA! Looks like a few random things cobbled together and displayed at a car boot sale.

 

'Who would take Alex Iwobi, signed for an eye-watering £34M on transfer deadline day?'

 

What self respecting club would not want the opportunity to sign a transfer-window-winning player? They should be queueing up for the sheer privilege of it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×