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*Shakes head* Everton again.


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1 hour ago, Boss said:

As opposed to some of their greatest hits which feature...

 

Throwing a banana on the field for John Barnes

Being voted the most racist fanbase in England ahead of Millwall

Rubbing snot on fellow supporters heads

Punching opposition players whilst holding a baby

Getting into knife fights with Millwall fans

Stabbing rival fans with Stanley knives

Getting tear-gassed in Lille for smashing the city up

Singing racist songs about their own player

Making John Stones cry in a petrol station

Providing a safe house for one of their players, accused of paedophilia

Setting fire to Wimbledon's coach

Disowning a manager because he had red decorations on his Christmas tree

Chanting "Everton are white" at games

 

 

You going to hold that against them, Boss? What did they do, try to re-sign him?

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On 04/11/2021 at 14:31, Manny said:

Genuine point here, but why the fuck do they aim the blame for the Heysel ban entirely at us*? Looking at it logically**, regardless of the event itself, it was Uefa who chose to extend the ban to other English clubs, not us. So this means either:

  • Heysel was the straw that broke the camel's back with regards to English football fans in Europe, in which case there's a share of the 'ban blame' that should extend to other English clubs: hooliganism was something that Uefa saw as an English football problem.
  • Uefa were just arbitrarily extending the ban on their own volition, in which case they should be angry with Uefa for being so heavy-handed

I was about 3 weeks old when it happened so I'm genuinely curious. It's always struck me as a convenient stick to beat us with, when actually the majority of the ire should be directed elsewhere: placing the majority of the blame for the 'collective' element of a collective punishment on anyone but the authorities is a bit misguided?

 

*Yes, yes, I know.

**Yes, yes, I know.

Heysel  was 100% our fault and the most shameful day in our history. I was there and it is all on us…we killed 39 innocent people.  Fuck the irrelevant stories of a shit stadium ( it was no worst than others back then) or them attacking a father and son in the neutral section.. 

 

we had a load of wankers who couldn’t take their ale in the sun who thought it would be ok to attack a load of middle aged Italians. Cowards.
 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, JoeBuck01 said:

Heysel  was 100% our fault and the most shameful day in our history. I was there and it is all on us…we killed 39 innocent people.  Fuck the irrelevant stories of a shit stadium ( it was no worst than others back then) or them attacking a father and son in the neutral section.. 

 

we had a load of wankers who couldn’t take their ale in the sun who thought it would be ok to attack a load of middle aged Italians. Cowards.
 

 

 

 

That's simply untrue.

 

That level of fighting could have happened in any badly-managed, badly-stewarded, badly-policed stadium in Europe back then; and if it had happened elsewhere, nobody would have died. The shit stadium was as "irrelevant" to the disaster as the shit cladding was to Grenfell.

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10 minutes ago, JoeBuck01 said:

Heysel  was 100% our fault and the most shameful day in our history. I was there and it is all on us…we killed 39 innocent people.  Fuck the irrelevant stories of a shit stadium ( it was no worst than others back then) or them attacking a father and son in the neutral section.. 

 

we had a load of wankers who couldn’t take their ale in the sun who thought it would be ok to attack a load of middle aged Italians. Cowards.
 

 

 

 

Bollocks. I'm not condoning the actions of some of our 'fans' at all but the fucking ground was a shambles. The 'barrier' between us and the Juve lot was a wire fence like you would normally see around a school playing field. As soon as I walked through the hole in the wall to get into the ground (no such luxury as a turnstile) I was nearly hit by a lump of concrete thrown from their side. It was part of the 'stadium'. We were being pelted as soon as we got in there.

 

To say it was 100% our fault is too fucking stupid for words.

 

Were you actually THERE?

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22 minutes ago, JoeBuck01 said:

Heysel  was 100% our fault and the most shameful day in our history. I was there and it is all on us…we killed 39 innocent people.  Fuck the irrelevant stories of a shit stadium ( it was no worst than others back then) or them attacking a father and son in the neutral section.. 

 

we had a load of wankers who couldn’t take their ale in the sun who thought it would be ok to attack a load of middle aged Italians. Cowards.
 

 

 

 

I was there too, beg to differ on your account of the day.

Most shameful day is not disputed, but the rest.

A big no.

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11 minutes ago, JoeBuck01 said:

They were singing towards us, nothing much more than that…and a few people seem to be getting hassle, but our reaction was over the top. Ok, no one meant for anyone to die, but let’s hold our hands up, which we have  failed to do for 36 years. 
 

 

 

They were throwing dismembered parts of the ground at us. I was in tears when I got back to Heathrow the day after, fucking shattered. My mum, dad and ex to be were wrecks with worry. You really think the vast majority of us didn't care?

 

And you haven't answered my question. Were you actually there or watched it on TV? I suspect the latter.

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32 minutes ago, JoeBuck01 said:

Heysel  was 100% our fault and the most shameful day in our history. I was there and it is all on us…we killed 39 innocent people.  Fuck the irrelevant stories of a shit stadium ( it was no worst than others back then) or them attacking a father and son in the neutral section.. 

 

we had a load of wankers who couldn’t take their ale in the sun who thought it would be ok to attack a load of middle aged Italians. Cowards.
 

 

 

 

Stadium was no worse than others? Did all stadiums have missiles on the terraces ready to throw? Did all stadiums have small wall to vault & you were in? Your recollection is shocking. Yes, we had a load of wankers that couldn’t get their ale but to suggest the stadium was no worse than others is simply bullshit. 

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1 minute ago, tokyojoe said:

They were throwing dismembered parts of the ground at us. I was in tears when I got back to Heathrow the day after, fucking shattered. My mum, dad and ex to be were wrecks with worry. You really think the vast majority of us didn't care?

Of course not. We got our photos and fingerprints taken at Zeebrugge and were all spaced out and shattered about what happened, as well as being genuinely scared. I was with my Uncle who thankfully was a calming presence.  All a bit different earlier in the day at the Grand Place when we exchanged scarves with some Italians. It was a bad dream all round.

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40 minutes ago, JoeBuck01 said:

Heysel  was 100% our fault and the most shameful day in our history. I was there and it is all on us

You may want to pass your privileged information on to the lawyers of Albert Roosens and Johan Mahieu as it appears that they may have been wrongly prosecuted and may be due (posthumous?) pardons. 

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I was only 12, so wasn't there at all, but remember the footage vividly. The 'neutral' end were clearly seen lobbing bricks into the Liverpool supporters (and vice versa). There were also running battles between Juve fans (on the track around the pitch) and police with no Liverpool fans in sight - as well as the well documented footage of reds chasing the supporters in the neutral end towards the wall that collapsed. Many Liverpool fans were culpable, and rightly prosecuted, but to suggest that Liverpool supporters shoulder 100% of the blame that day is nonsense.

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18 minutes ago, JoeBuck01 said:

,but let’s hold our hands up, which we have  failed to do for 36 years. 

Do you think?

 

Contrary to Blueshite mythology, I've never known any Reds try to deny, ignore or downplay our guilt for the disaster. But it's always important to be honest about the complex causes of any disaster, or you'll never learn how to prevent the next one.

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1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Do you think?

 

Contrary to Blueshite mythology, I've never known any Reds try to deny, ignore or downplay our guilt for the disaster. But it's always important to be honest about the complex causes of any disaster, or you'll never learn how to prevent the next one.

That’s my point really.  I think we have tried to dilute our responsibility for that night, and did so from the start ( some Chelsea fans were there etc).   if we hadn’t charged over, no one would have died , shit stadium or not.  It is on us.  
 

anyway, this is meant to be anti- blue thread ….btw, I was quite proud of them at Millwall a few years back.  Puts helmet on.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Boss said:

As opposed to some of their greatest hits which feature...

 

Throwing a banana on the field for John Barnes

Being voted the most racist fanbase in England ahead of Millwall

Rubbing snot on fellow supporters heads

Punching opposition players whilst holding a baby

Getting into knife fights with Millwall fans

Stabbing rival fans with Stanley knives

Getting tear-gassed in Lille for smashing the city up

Singing racist songs about their own player

Making John Stones cry in a petrol station

Providing a safe house for one of their players, accused of paedophilia

Setting fire to Wimbledon's coach

Disowning a manager because he had red decorations on his Christmas tree

Chanting "Everton are white" at games

 

 

not to mention the "Houllier is dying" chants and making "we know where you live" a running joke about their current manager...

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6 minutes ago, JoeBuck01 said:

That’s my point really.  I think we have tried to dilute our responsibility for that night, and did so from the start ( some Chelsea fans were there etc).   if we hadn’t charged over, no one would have died , shit stadium or not.  It is on us.  
 

anyway, this is meant to be anti- blue thread ….btw, I was quite proud of them at Millwall a few years back.  Puts helmet on.

 

 

You fucking started it mate.

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1 hour ago, JoeBuck01 said:

Heysel  was 100% our fault and the most shameful day in our history. I was there and it is all on us…we killed 39 innocent people.  Fuck the irrelevant stories of a shit stadium ( it was no worst than others back then) or them attacking a father and son in the neutral section.. 

 

we had a load of wankers who couldn’t take their ale in the sun who thought it would be ok to attack a load of middle aged Italians. Cowards.
 

 

 

 

We certainly were to blame,but also not entirely. Documented reports and eye witnesses show Juventus fans behaved at least as badly during the run up to the game. And I say this as family who went told me.

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Had two Uncles who were there. One actually on the LFC bench and another who had gone there 3 days before.

 

My Uncke who went as a fan said the atmosphere until the night before was sound then Italian fans who arrived then were intent on causing trouble. The other Italian fans who had been there for a couple of days were friendly and would interact with our fans, drinking and playing football. My uncle stayed on a campsite but had most of his belongings stolen and his tent slashed to bits by Italian fans. He said some weren't even Juventus fans. 

 

The day of the game he said it was a great atmosphere with both sets of fans socialising together until around 6pm when everything turned nasty.with fights on the way up there. A lot were just glad to get in the stadium. However, there were bricks being constantly thrown at the Liverpool fans who also started throwing things back at the Juventus fans. 

 

My other uncle who was on the coaching staff heard around 6.30 that there was trouble and Joe Fagan had gone out to talk to our fans who had apparently rioted. No one in the dressing room really knew what had happened only that there had been rioting.

 

Later on when the wall had collapsed a couple of our fans went to help drag people out but got warned by a British police officer who was working with the Belgian police to stay out of the area or risk being killed by angry Juventus fans. 

 

While the fighting was going on the Belgian police just basically shrugged their shoulders and walked off. 

 

No Liverpool fan can ever say we weren't to blame but Liverpool fans would never attacked Juventus fans without provocation or that the Belgian authorities did nothing to control the situation. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, JoeBuck01 said:

They were singing towards us, nothing much more than that…and a few people seem to be getting hassle, but our reaction was over the top. Ok, no one meant for anyone to die, but let’s hold our hands up, which we have  failed to do for 36 years. 
 

 

 

Fighting started round about midday fella. And it wasn't Liverpool fans starting it.

You may have a different view, way off in my opinion.

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8 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Do you think?

 

Contrary to Blueshite mythology, I've never known any Reds try to deny, ignore or downplay our guilt for the disaster. But it's always important to be honest about the complex causes of any disaster, or you'll never learn how to prevent the next one.

Exactly this. 

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I don’t think we should try to sidestep our responsibility for the disaster, whatever mitigating circumstances there may be.

 

But the ban is a different matter altogether. The “English disease” was a deserved label - if not exclusively an English problem - fuelled by the actions of fans from Utd, Chelsea, WHU, Leeds and others. Liverpool fans did not have quite the same reputation with our fans more likely to rob than cause fighting. We were, rightly, front and centre at Heysel but the ban on English sides derived from the actions of a much wider community.

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9 minutes ago, Barnesey said:

I don’t think we should try to sidestep our responsibility for the disaster

Can't ever remember a time where we have.

The shite can bang on about injustice but those involved rightly went through the court process.

I wasn't involved so the injustice of being twatted by Belgium bizzies at every opportunity pissed me off. Think it was at the ferry terminal they stacked boxes so you had to crawl through and......got twatted with batons. 

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