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*Shakes head* Everton again.


Fugitive

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15 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

And their former love child, manchester united, were the first English club banned from European competition in 78 after their fans rioted at St Etienne. Just why St Etienne supported united's re instatement is beyond me.

 

Maybe if, just if, united's ban had continued, the hoolies following English clubs around Europe would have had a reality check?

If my mind serves me correctly,the Liverpool fans jailed most serious crime was manslaughter? The judiciary admitting that even in law there were other factors at play. This doesn't excuse their behaviour one bit though. I do know people who went,family members who didnt go for anything other than the football and they told me there were absolutely no innocent parties on that day. The behaviour of elements of both sets of fans was shameful. But I suppose the ages of the blue kids who shout it are mostly those who weren't even born and have just been fed bullshit by older blues with an axe to grind,hence the factual inaccuracies being spouted.

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8 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

If my mind serves me correctly,the Liverpool fans jailed most serious crime was manslaughter? The judiciary admitting that even in law there were other factors at play. This doesn't excuse their behaviour one bit though. I do know people who went,family members who didnt go for anything other than the football and they told me there were absolutely no innocent parties on that day. The behaviour of elements of both sets of fans was shameful. But I suppose the ages of the blue kids who shout it are mostly those who weren't even born and have just been fed bullshit by older blues with an axe to grind,hence the factual inaccuracies being spouted.

manslaughter sounds about right though doesn't it? nobody set out to kill anyone and the deaths didn't happen from a direct consequence of the violence, rather the indirect consequence of the stadium failing when people tried to get away. but somehow the bloos think that isn't justice. and you know why? because they aren't 1 bit arsed about the people who died that day, the real victims. they are just arsed about how they are the victims. when they say "justice for the 39", what they actually mean, is "justice for the ev". 

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People forget the many Juve fans in the neural section having ULTRAS cards and throwing stuff at Liverpool fans as well. Not condoning the response one bit but something the shite will never have is perspective. I know quite a few who were at both and to a man say Rome the year before was far worse for violence, Reds getting picked off and slashed beaten robbed etc. No surprise a year later in the face of Italians again a fair few Reds thought about a bit of revenge. Nobody should have died, nobody was supposed to die.  

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I was at Rome 84 and Heysel. In Rome we had to negotiate things that even compared to away at Leeds in the '70s were incomprehensible. I really thought I was going to die that night.

 

At Heysel I just walked into the ground as the turnstile(s) had simply fallen apart. A Belgian cop just looked at me and shrugged his shoulders. First thing that greeted me was a brick (or something) flying past my head. Later I realised it was a part of the fucking stadium. Stadium, yeah, what a fucking joke. Until we got out of the ground and spoke to the coach driver we had no idea of the severity of what had happened, let alone the fatalities.

 

I do not condone for a moment what those LFC 'fans' did but it was typical of so much shit that had been going on for years.

 

Yeah, Blooshite or anyone blame us for it. It goes a fucking lot deeper then that.

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2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

People forget the many Juve fans in the neural section having ULTRAS cards and throwing stuff at Liverpool fans as well. Not condoning the response one bit but something the shite will never have is perspective. I know quite a few who were at both and to a man say Rome the year before was far worse for violence, Reds getting picked off and slashed beaten robbed etc. No surprise a year later in the face of Italians again a fair few Reds thought about a bit of revenge. Nobody should have died, nobody was supposed to die.  

The thing is as everyone who went through the 70s and 80s knows, even if you weren't someone who went looking for trouble, if it was going off, you fought because if you didn't you'd get fucked. I'm not saying it's right, it's just a reality. I didn't go looking for trouble back in those days, but ended up in the middle of loads of it and felt lucky to get out of it in 1 piece. It doesnt excuse what happened, but it was an inevitable consequence having inadequate segregation that it would go off. And the stadium tipped that from another 80s day out to a fatal situation.

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I went to Heysel, my missus went to Rome the year before, she still says she’s never been as scared at any match as that night in Rome. 

Shouldn’t have surprised anyone that there was trouble in Brussels given the way things were then and the club, Council and Merseyside Police warned weeks in advance that the stadium was a shithole with serious security flaws.
Totally ignored of course by UEFA.

There’s a whole shitload of things that went on in Belgium in the lead up to and at the start of that match that many of our fans have mentioned before.

I’ve always believed some things will never get discussed openly because it meets too many agendas to have them aired, not that I’m privy to facts by the way, it’s just a feeling I’ve had.

There were deaths and there had to be blame, and like it or not, it was us that were there and had there been no charge from our section, there would likely have been no deaths and so we were to blame.

 

 

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13 hours ago, El Dangerous said:

It doesn’t matter that I was born in the middle of the 80’s and they were genuinely actively part of the problem, it’s my fault they’re shit.

Finally, some accountability. About fucking time you faced up to your demons mate. 

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3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

The thing is as everyone who went through the 70s and 80s knows, even if you weren't someone who went looking for trouble, if it was going off, you fought because if you didn't you'd get fucked. I'm not saying it's right, it's just a reality...

 

This just isn't true, mate. I have been to hundreds of games in all divisions, during that period. Saw it going off many many times. I didn't fight. I never HAD to fight. The same is true of the lads I went with.  

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4 minutes ago, Jennings said:

 

This just isn't true, mate. I have been to hundreds of games in all divisions, during that period. Saw it going off many many times. I didn't fight. I never HAD to fight. The same is true of the lads I went with.  

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQlfJyAe4FihJ8ft6ikhr9

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Jennings said:

 

This just isn't true, mate. I have been to hundreds of games in all divisions, during that period. Saw it going off many many times. I didn't fight. I never HAD to fight. The same is true of the lads I went with.  

Good for you. You didn't travel away with Liverpool much then. Or go away pretty much anywhere, because I know loads of fellas who supported other clubs and travelled in that period. Because it went off litterally every match. I don't know much what it was like in other divisions because I went where Liverpool went. You couldn't go to any game between clubs from major cities and it not be like the wild west. In the ground obviously it was segregated (which heysel was not), outside was anything but unless you were in a police escort. 

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I was lucky, I went to a few aways in the 70’s & 80’s and never got too involved, although I was too close at hand on a number of occasions when there was a kick off.

You still had to cover up your colours, especially if you were on your own, and after the League Cup replay with West Ham at Villa Park, I just dug my hands into my pockets, kept my head down and kept walking while there was all sorts of mayhem happening.

Wembley was iffy at times as we would get the train in from Harrow on the Hill and there were occasionally “welcoming committees” knocking about, although the serious number of reds tended to put off all except the real nutcases from opposition teams.


I’ve mentioned before that there was a TV program on in the days after the Heysel game where there was an invited audience of some of the more “established” hoolies and one of them actually said, regarding the deaths, “This has been coming for a while now, the scousers were just unlucky it was them”, which in itself is a scary indictment of how violence was almost an expected part of the game all over Europe.

Thankfully, it isn’t these days.

 

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In the book Fever Pitch by Nick Hornby he talks about Heysel and said something similar, it was a clash of fan culture where running at the opposition fans which pretty much a regular occurence in England and he'd seen it loads at Arsenal and could have happened to any of the clubs.

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6 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Good for you. You didn't travel away with Liverpool much then. Or go away pretty much anywhere, because I know loads of fellas who supported other clubs and travelled in that period. Because it went off litterally every match. I don't know much what it was like in other divisions because I went where Liverpool went. You couldn't go to any game between clubs from major cities and it not be like the wild west. In the ground obviously it was segregated (which heysel was not), outside was anything but unless you were in a police escort. 

I wouldn't say you HAD to fight but anybody,and I mean anybody,could end up caught in a massive kick off with bottles,cans,bricks or anything throwable whizzing around your head and body. Often Liverpool's large travelling supporters were able to make most wannabe hooligans think twice before kicking off. 

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7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Good for you. You didn't travel away with Liverpool much then. Or go away pretty much anywhere, because I know loads of fellas who supported other clubs and travelled in that period. Because it went off litterally every match. I don't know much what it was like in other divisions because I went where Liverpool went. You couldn't go to any game between clubs from major cities and it not be like the wild west. In the ground obviously it was segregated (which heysel was not), outside was anything but unless you were in a police escort. 

Whenever you were buying your tickets and the lady behind the counter said "fighting or non-fighting?", did you say "fighting" every time?

 

Schoolboy error. 

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I'm always wary out talking about heysel as I wasnt there,but from what I've heard/seen ,that type of thing happened every single week at grounds up and down the country.

I remember someone saying the actual scale of the violence was no where near the levels of say the 85 semis.

I remember watching a documentary once where all the ultras ran down to the liverpool end and only a line of police stopped them

God knows what would have happened otherwise.

As others have said the reason all English clubs were banned was our well deserved reputation at the time..heysel was the inevitable outcome.

The really puzzling aspect is why england,by far the worst culprits,were not banned aswell.

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10 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Potential? I am enquiring into the services of several porn actresses to keep me company for the next month and potentially I am in there. 

I don’t believe you, unless you have a list and put “BREAKING NEWS” in the text. 

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10 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Potential? I am enquiring into the services of several porn actresses to keep me company for the next month and potentially I am in there. 

I don’t believe you, unless you have a list and put “BREAKING NEWS” in the text. 

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On 08/07/2021 at 21:52, Barrington Womble said:

The thing is as everyone who went through the 70s and 80s knows, even if you weren't someone who went looking for trouble, if it was going off, you fought because if you didn't you'd get fucked. I'm not saying it's right, it's just a reality. I didn't go looking for trouble back in those days, but ended up in the middle of loads of it and felt lucky to get out of it in 1 piece. It doesnt excuse what happened, but it was an inevitable consequence having inadequate segregation that it would go off. And the stadium tipped that from another 80s day out to a fatal situation.

100% correct.

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Old man Dangerously maintains that if the Italians had stood their ground and fought the disaster would have been avoided. He went everywhere from the late 60s until the early 00s when he lost his passion for it. He's got some outrageous stories but isn't someone who went out for trouble, but always stood up for himself and his mates. 

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41 minutes ago, Paulie Dangerously said:

Old man Dangerously maintains that if the Italians had stood their ground and fought the disaster would have been avoided. He went everywhere from the late 60s until the early 00s when he lost his passion for it. He's got some outrageous stories but isn't someone who went out for trouble, but always stood up for himself and his mates. 

The thing back in those days, society was more openly violent. Where I grew up, it was the shadow of the ground really. My mates and I all lived along the L4, L5, L6 boundary. We'd never look for trouble day to day, we wanted to just get to each others houses and listen to music or be out somewhere playing football. But loads of lads just fucking liked fighting, especially in gangs and you either fought back or you got the fucking shit kicked out of you - although that sometimes happened anyway. There were loads of places you wouldn't go alone and not because you were avoiding getting beat up, but because you were avoiding taking a kicking alone h if you ran into the wrong crowd, they were going for you. At anfield you could find trouble if you wanted it, but avoid it just as easily. But I 100% guarantee the away fans didn't feel like that. And it was the same for us going away. There was the odd place you could go where not much happened, but that was the exception and not the rule. 

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